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Old 20th November 2014, 11:56   #61
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Having bashed up manufacturers for their lack of safety features for past few days, it is amusing to see, the forum pushing Alto and Go as enthusiast cars. Dont we enthusiasts deserve safety along with the other typical characteristics of the Enthusiast car? In my opinion, at least we should drop such cars for which we have the safety (Crash test) data available..
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Old 20th November 2014, 11:57   #62
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Although not on sale today, can a honorary mention of the Getz D be made?. Because it makes me feel like LOKI by the time I get to my destination, everytime, be it a 1 km or a 1000 kms drive. Its a poor man's Thrust SSC .

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Old 20th November 2014, 12:04   #63
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Thumbs down Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Okay people this is getting out of hand. At the risk of echoing sentiments already expressed by other forum members, I have to say that this feels like a laundry list of cars. And what is with all the posts asking "Why is XYZ not on the list?" At this rate, the only car not on the list will be the Nano. In fact, I already predict that someone reading this post will say why not Nano. It is not a competition for crying out loud!

IMO, the only proper way to come up with a meaningful list is to:
  • start with a shortlist (here is where the mods give their input)
  • have a poll (here is where we forum members give our inputs)
  • make a Top 3 or Top 5 list, and declare it!
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:09   #64
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
We normally see a lot of manufacturers going the 'mass-market' way and I wonder whether this thread is a contribution from T-BHP to that way of thinking!
On the contrary, this thread illustrates that it is indeed possible to have fun with 'mass market' cars too...and as an enthusiast, I say that's a good thing. There's no need to falsely restrict 'fun-to-drive' with only expensive / niche cars. As an example, again, I've pushed an Alto K10 with good tyres on a ghat section and had an absolute blast with its sheer chuckability and potent engine. This is coming from someone who has driven 500 horsepower cars.

Quote:
Still we didn't include Cruze though. Wonder what has changed in Cruze this year, to make it an enthusiast's car!
Just a change of opinion, everyone is entitled to that, isn't it? Lets say I learn everyday from Team-BHP. If you disagree with the Cruze's inclusion, please list out why. We're here to debate!

Quote:
Also, I must add that the omission of 2014 Fiesta is shocking especially when we have included many under-powered cars in the list already.Fiesta's steering is a gem and the handling is unmatched in my honest opinion.
Totally agreed. Will be adding the Fiesta. It was a strong contender anyway.

Quote:
Otherwise this thread will just be an opinion of the OP and nothing more
Actually, that's what it is....just like with most other threads. If I run a sales analysis, it's my opinion on the reason behind the successes & failures (open to argument by members), if a member publishes an ownership review of his car, it's his opinion of the same.

This is of course different from the official 'Team-BHP Car of the Year' which is decided by a public poll. That is decided by the community. This list of enthusiast cars is an opinion, albeit an informed one. Feel free to debate the list. We're always open to corrections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
Everyone will have different opinions when it comes to discussions such as these, and one way to address this would be to lay-out the parameters defining an enthusiast's car upfront and rate cars on each of these bullet points. Outright power maybe important to some and handling to some others.
Take your pick from the list, whether you want a great steering, handling, power to weight etc.

Our shortlist is based on the possibility to have 'fun' with the vehicle. That's all.

Quote:
Why not poll with certain defined parameters.
The single parameter here is FUN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Good write up, but the list is almost the same as last years
Can't help it if manufacturers haven't launched too many fun-to-drive cars this year.

On the other hand, it's a good thing that many enthusiast cars haven't been discontinued.

Quote:
But nonetheless, may be its a learning for many of us that cars we never thought or drove, must be fun to drive too. So guys, lets drive the newbies in the list too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I did go back and read the OP again when I saw the Datsun in the list, I agree with most of the cars listed. But I couldnt digest the Alto K10 or the Datsun Go.
Agreed. The Datsun Go isn't as much fun as an Alto K10. Included it as anyone consider the Alto K10 should definitely consider the Go too. Will change it to a supplementary entry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
Maybe we can define what sort of enthusiast we are talking about to pare down the list!
Why be so restrictive? Take a spin in any of the cars on the opening page. It's possible to have a blast with them.

Of course, if you feel that some cars need to be added / removed, please reply back with your own list.

Quote:
It currently comes across as an everybody wins list that magazines come up with to sell cars.
Disagreed. It would if we'd included all the 200 cars on sale in India, and given awards to each. This is a compilation, not pointing out any single winner.

Quote:
I would never put my own car, a rapid on this list as its a bad handler in the ghats.
I'm certain most Rapid owners will disagree with you (including one comment earlier on this thread itself). The Rapid is among the better handling cars from its segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharian View Post
I am all for the off-roaders, since they are good at their playground.
Yep! Can have as much fun with them in slush as you can with an Audi R8 on a racetrack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfxavier View Post
Some of the first S60 T6 (Volvo) examples sold should be coming into the second hand market with a price tag within the range considered for the list.
I think the T6 is a 'seriously' fun to drive car.
Totally agreed, hope you've checked out my review of the same. The only problem with the T6 is it sold in the single digits. Finding a good example is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Is this car still in production? Couldn't find it on Toyota India website.
Yep. Confirmed with Toyota & its dealer.

Link and its there on the Toyota price lists too. There's a 2 month waiting in Mumbai though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
For me, the most important question is - 'From whose perspective?'
F-U-N. Whose perspective? I think it's obvious by the handle that's posting it, and the person it's edited by. All visible on the opening page. Our forum doesn't allow anonymous postings

Quote:
I would like to know the analysis conducted before coming up with such an official list. Is this thread supposed to voice the collective opinion of the forum, and data collected as such? Or was it finalized internally by the moderator and support teams? Or is it purely GTO and the staff team who came up with the list for this year?
Nothing official about it, where did you get that idea? It's our opinion, feel free to disagree with it and contribute your own list on this thread.

Quote:
except for the realization that off-roaders can be fun to drive!
Actually, we realized offroaders can be fun from the time of our inception in 2004 itself. Please look up earlier threads on the topic.

Also, you need to look at the 2013 list again. Offroaders were very much a part of it. They've also been on my 'best used cars for 6 lakhs' article.

Quote:
Isn't it time we stopped mentioning the Swift as having snazzy styling (and give an after-market modified car pic along with it!)? I think its too old on the roads to be snazzy anymore, unless modified.
1. I still consider it snazzy. Feel free to disagree. Looks are anyway subjective.

2. The Swift isn't the only one to have a modified example used, I'm surprised you're singling it out. It's the same for the Isuzu, Laura, Gurkha & Gypsy too.

Quote:
Ok, understood they have power under the belt - but all the recent discussions on safety doesn't even deserve a strong mention
Please check both entries. Safety has been mentioned in the disadvantages list.

Quote:
Team bhp has a very efficient way of selecting the 'Car of the year'.
And it always will. The official Team-BHP Car of the Year will be chosen via a public poll only.

This is a compilation, not an award, nor selecting a single car.

Quote:
Otherwise, mention whose opinion it is supposed to convey
Just like any other thread, I think it's made amply clear just by the fact that an individual has posted it. Nowhere has it been stated that it's the 'collective opinion of the forum' and shouldn't be misconstrued as so either. Please don't misunderstand.

Quote:
The picture for the Linea Tjet seems to be taken from the member review
When re-uploading any image, the bottom bit with the Team-BHP watermark is cropped off, otherwise there's a double Team-BHP watermark. This is the case for 90% of the pictures on the opening page which have been shrunk to a standard size. One of the other pictures - which had a watermark on top - has it listed clearly. If you have a problem with this, please use the 'report this post to a Moderator' functionality and we'll look into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 View Post
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, how about a pre-owned manual 2.4 liter 3rd gen Honda CR-V.
Not under 20 lakhs!

Last edited by GTO : 20th November 2014 at 12:11.
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:10   #65
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLizardKing View Post
At this rate, the only car not on the list will be the Nano. In fact, I already predict that someone reading this post will say why not Nano.
Offcourse, why not Nano?

Afterall that is the cheapest "Rear Wheel Drive" car available in the market. Mind you, that is rather only RWD 'car' available in the sub 15-20 lakh category (please correct if any other RWD 'car' available in this price bracket). I am talking about car, not about van/MUV/SUV.


Last edited by tbppjpr : 20th November 2014 at 12:16.
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:27   #66
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Not under 20 lakhs!
Really? I mean the 3rd gen 2007-2010 one that you can get for 7.5 or so. Not the current one which is way expensive I know.
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:30   #67
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Tushar,
Thanks for the summary , Nice one !
I am happy to see the T-jet there, this is one car I always compared to the likes of ( two wheeler world ), the Rx 100 ! but somehow did'nt penetrate the market due to lot of other reasons...

I also am excited to see the last part of pre-worshipped cars and the price to which they are going.. Opportunities Galore !
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Old 20th November 2014, 12:44   #68
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Offcourse, why not Nano?

I am talking about car, not about van/MUV/SUV.

Oh!. That's an interesting line. Can we know how do you define those categories?
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Old 20th November 2014, 13:36   #69
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbhavan View Post
Oh!. That's an interesting line. Can we know how do you define those categories?
Manual steering,decent power to weight ratio, RWD,Cheap price = Fun

Nothing beats a Nano in a crowded narrow lanes where your regular hatchbacks/sedans/SUVs dread to enter. Try driving one in the a narrow lane and see for yourself.

Note:This is my personal opinion
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Old 20th November 2014, 13:49   #70
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Going by the comments, it looks like every car is fun to drive now. Or is it the dearth of real enthusiast's cars in the market and we, as enthusiasts have lowered our expectations?
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Old 20th November 2014, 13:54   #71
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

If its fun to drive car, then the humble Nano would definately find a place in my list. I have driven it on a few occassions (within the city) and everytime I end up grinning ear to ear. Its quite amazing how much more it delivers over what you would normally expect out of it. And under 80kmph (between trafic signals?) it can actually surprise with its pace.
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Old 20th November 2014, 14:35   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

As an example, again, I've pushed an Alto K10 with good tyres on a ghat section and had an absolute blast with its sheer chuckability and potent engine. This is coming from someone who has driven 500 horsepower cars.


If you disagree with the Cruze's inclusion, please list out why. We're here to debate!

I'm certain most Rapid owners will disagree with you (including one comment earlier on this thread itself). The Rapid is among the better handling cars from its segment.


I like the idea of trying to pick cars that are fun in their own way.

I love the 800 for being amazingly fun in the city. Every Volvo bus overtake at redline in 3rd gives you a sense of achievement.

Maybe a distinction should be made about the type of fun we are talking about? Otherwise the hanky panky thread would settle all arguments here!


Cruze is about 1520kg add a slow steering rack to the mix and the weight can definitely be felt. Makes it not much fun in the corners. Though I have only driven the first gen cruze not the newer ones.

Compare that to an octavia's weight of 1350kg

About the rapids handling, its fine on 4 lane expressways. Straight line stability is great.
but in the corners I don't think its better than either the fiesta or linea or even a swift for that matter.

3rd best is not very good in a segment of 5 cars.. (not counting vento which is the same platform)

All you need to do is follow any of the above cars on an windy undulating road to know what I mean.

Coolboy007 agrees I think.
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Old 20th November 2014, 15:47   #73
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJITHAAA View Post
Although not on sale today, can a honorary mention of the Getz D be made?. Because it makes me feel like LOKI by the time I get to my destination, everytime, be it a 1 km or a 1000 kms drive. Its a poor man's Thrust SSC .
I agree with you. I sold my Getz D and bought the previous generation Cruze. While the Cruze is fast, the Getz was more "fun". The Getz did not have the famously soft suspension either and was one of the few Hyundais which was great.

I'm seriously looking at buying the Octavia 1.8 TSI in 2015 to have the best of both worlds.
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Old 20th November 2014, 17:12   #74
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Default Re: 2014 Lineup: The Best Enthusiast Cars in India

Oh God!! Please stop bickering like immature kids. If you wish to disagree with any of the cars in the list please feel free and if you feel any car does merit a place on the list please pen your thoughts.

A person who can afford a 3l car be as much an enthusiast as one who can afford a 3 crore one. That doesn't mean the other guy can't have fun with the car he's able to afford. It's not the cost that dictates fun or enthusiasm.

Safety and fun are two different things though it's inadvisable to have one without the other. Totally agree that nano and Datsun go are unsafe cars but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. Let's just agree that we're discussing enthusiast cars or fun cars and definitely not safe cars shall we?

And to the member who disagreed with brio and 4x4s, you sir really should try both and I can guarantee that you'll step out with a huge smile plastered on your face.

I personally disagree with few of the cars mentioned like ecosport and miss Honda accord v6 on the list but then again, that's just me.

Just my two cents, peace out fellas
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Old 20th November 2014, 17:40   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sort of agreed, sort of don't. For cars that are the same, no changes.
First, thank you for responding to my comments. I can understand the same write-up for the same cars, the issue was with the opening post. When a thread starts on a stale note, it does affect the overall experience of readers/members. I would blame the high expectations that this forum has set, for pointing it out. We are so used to reading fresh and great stuff on Team-bhp that even slightly stale or mediocre stuff gets .


Quote:
Why not? Can't CV owners / drivers have fun? Just kidding.
As long as their fun doesn't intimidate/scare other road users, I am all for it.

Quote:
Has the Alto K10 been crash-tested? Thar? Liva? Gypsy? Brio?
Not all have been crash tested but there are credible data (in case of Alto) and perception (expert reviews like your's) that highlight the weak-points of these cars. Perhaps we should highlight their abilities and lack of safety in the same tone/extent. It might even push the manufacturers to take safety features more seriously because I am sure they do follow this forum. Due to the amazing effort that you and others have put, this forum is one of the most respected and followed automotive forums in India. Isn't it the time we start using this clout for endorsing safety features.

At the expense of sounding stale, I would repeat what I posted for Alto last year - "No offence meant but I would prefer to keep the go-kart restricted to kart circuit. Spiritedly driven Alto K10 on public roads, with its safety features (rather the lack of it) is a threat to occupants (of road as well as the car). Whenever I see someone pushing their under-tyred, structurally weaker car beyond its limits to reflect "enthusiasm" on highways, I let them pass and win the ego-battle. No doubt, it's a very peppy car but the owners/drivers should be wary of its limitations while pushing it to/beyond its limits."

Quote:
With reference to your comment on turbo-lag, the Octavia vRS also had plenty of it. Isn't it on every enthusiasts list?
I didn't make that comment and I don't mind turbo-lag because "With turbo-lag comes a great turbo-kick"

Cheers,
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