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Old 18th December 2014, 14:53   #121
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Well, we see how it goes. My bike isnt registered in Delhi to start with, and at least its registration is valid for a few more years.

I havent seen or heard about the cops impounding vehicles yet. And I would have thought that there are likely to be some people challenging this ruling for classic vehicleas a minimum. Also, there are quite a few businesses that might as well close up shop, e.g. most of the Royal Enfield shops in Karol Bagh will be put out of business because of this rule. You'd think somebody will star to formally object/appeal

To put this sort of ruling a bit in a more international context; Several countries around the world have or are in the proces of implementing similar schemes. No matter how you look at it, older cars, no mattter how well maintained are always more polluting then new ones. So all these schemes are introduced because of environmental concern.

What I find unique about this here in India, compared to other countries:

It appears more or less out of the blue, overnight. Typically, these sort of rulings could be in the works for years and get modified before implemented. They will be in the media, in political debate, will be modified etc for quite some time. In the Delhi case there also appears to be very little factual data available as to who/what causes what part of the pollution. To put it differently, how much improvement on what parameters is likely to be expected when implemented.

In all cases I'm familiar with there is always some sort of notice and or grace period. So you don't get confronted with it overnight, people have a few years to use up or sell their vehicles. Also, in all cases I'm familiar with, there have been excemption rules for classic cars one way or the other.

Lastly, most of these rules in Europe at least are more focussed towards getting rid of or penalizing diesel then petrol engines.

So we'll see how this is actually going to get implemented in India.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 18th December 2014 at 14:57.
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Old 18th December 2014, 14:59   #122
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Well, we see how it goes. My bike isnt registered in Delhi to start with, and at least its registration is valid for a few more years.



Jeroen
You are out of this then; as it is only applicable on vehicles registered in Delhi. I have a DL registered W124 with a valid Fitness certificate until 2018. The car is not in Delhi, so i am not bothered till the fitness certificate runs out.
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Old 18th December 2014, 18:24   #123
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Also, there are quite a few businesses that might as well close up shop, e.g. most of the Royal Enfield shops in Karol Bagh will be put out of business because of this rule. You'd think somebody will star to formally object/appeal
If a sun-film ban can wipe out that industry overnight, I don't see much of a case/result with an appeal from RE shops.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
To put this sort of ruling a bit in a more international context; Several countries around the world have or are in the proces of implementing similar schemes. No matter how you look at it, older cars, no mattter how well maintained are always more polluting then new ones. So all these schemes are introduced because of environmental concern.
Delhi is the most polluted city in the world. So there is no point in comparing with how things are done in the West since they didn't allow the situation to get so worse in their territories without any action.

I don't recollect the source but I've read somewhere that around 50% of the children in Delhi suffer from respiratory diseases. That certainly calls for drastic measures if those statistics are true.
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Old 18th December 2014, 20:55   #124
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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I don't recollect the source but I've read somewhere that around 50% of the children in Delhi suffer from respiratory diseases. That certainly calls for drastic measures if those statistics are true.
I am with you here but I believe the NGT is barking up the wrong tree. Banning 15 year old vehicles is hardly the solution. If a vehicle meets the prescribed emission norms, it should be allowed to run. More so when less than 5 year old smoke belching Indica taxis are allowed a free run. Why should the common man of this country pay for the problems caused by corruption in the system.

When the USA and European countries which have a far far higher vehicle density than India are able to control their pollution levels, then obviously the problem has more to do with the quality of fuel used in India and lesser to do with the 15+ year old vehicles that run here.

For starters we use Iranian crude. This is the least preferred crude in the international oil market because it is more difficult to refine than others. Our govt, being the cheapskates they are, prefer Iranian crude because it costs lesser - the environment be damned.

What kind of a banana republic are we becoming? Some moron in the NGT wakes up one fine morning and decides from this day forward all vehicles older than 15 years should be taken off the road. No discussions, no consultations, no nothing. Well if that's the case the NGT should be compensating all those vehicle owners whose vehicles have become a piece of junk overnight.
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Old 18th December 2014, 22:13   #125
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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If a vehicle meets the prescribed emission norms, it should be allowed to run.
If we want it that way, they can very well insist Euro-2 norms compulsory for all vehicles in Delhi. That would translate to a ban on all vehicles older than 13 years except perhaps a handful of imports in the late 90s that complied with Euro norms.

Current limits of PUC are by no means a safe/international standard and just because a well maintained car meets the same doesn't mean it is not polluting.
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Old 19th December 2014, 08:23   #126
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Okay, here is how I see it, now lets consider that I have enough wealth to get new cars but I retained my old rides due to sentimental value, but since now my cars can't be used any more I have to scrap them (waste of resource) and buy brand new cars (imagine the amount of pollution in producing a new one). Not sure if this would work out, but I respect the government for taking some steps instead of just talking
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Old 19th December 2014, 09:16   #127
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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since now my cars can't be used any more I have to scrap them (waste of resource) and buy brand new cars (imagine the amount of pollution in producing a new one).
Clearly, the pollution of producing a new car is not affecting Delhi's air quality. That happens at a place where the air can take that level of pollution, since most factories are not situated in the middle of densely populated areas.

Same would go for scrap yards too, they can be built in or moved to remote areas which doesn't impact the air quality of densely populated areas.
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Old 29th December 2014, 18:06   #128
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Whatever one says, there are numerous other cause of Pollution. The link below from TOI Delhi shows another cause. Rather than banning 15 YO vehicles, this needs more attention.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/45671252.cms
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Old 29th December 2014, 20:57   #129
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If we want it that way, they can very well insist Euro-2 norms compulsory for all vehicles in Delhi. That would translate to a ban on all vehicles older than 13 years except perhaps a handful of imports in the late 90s that complied with Euro norms.

Current limits of PUC are by no means a safe/international standard and just because a well maintained car meets the same doesn't mean it is not polluting.
You maybe right (although my 2000 WagonR and 800DX both said Euro-II [not BS II]). But obviously don't live in Delhi. Private cars are by no means the real cause of pollution in the city, the real causes are:
1) Uncontrollable heavy vehicle movement at night, smoking all the way to hell! - obviously, those are not working hours for green courts.
2) Excessive use of DG sets, which do not need to comply with anything! or at least is not enforced.
3) Illegal commercial vehicles claiming to be new, but obviously older than their drivers.
4) Illegal two wheelers, polluting on their way to jumping traffic signals (quite common in some parts of Delhi) - sometimes I confuse them with anti mosquito sprayers, till the pollution seeps inside the car.
5) Under-powered/ overburdened/ ill-maintained diesel cars (mostly commercial vehicles).
6) Environment unfriendly construction activities (loads and loads of these in Delhi)
7) Despite bans, burning of waste and specially plastic waste is still common.

But somehow age of a car has nothing to do with pollution (the millage might be!), and why the hell is the 3 month PUC in place then, just make it 15 years!

This seems like a move pressed by the car dealers, who'd get 13 year old cars at throwaway prices and then make huge profits by selling in neighboring states.

Really! this issue doesn't hurt me, though I have a 14 year old WagonR, I'm willing to part with it!. But its out-rightly wrong and in the same spirit as the sun-film ban. You haven't been able to control it due to your own inefficiencies, just ban it, even if it was not that difficult to control. BTW you still get some of those jet back tint cars driving free at night!

Last edited by SLK : 29th December 2014 at 21:06.
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Old 7th January 2015, 22:34   #130
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Good news

Calling it a ‘short cut’, Govt says no to banning pvt vehicles older than 15 years -

See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/ind....mMRkQ6i2.dpuf

Last edited by akshay4587 : 7th January 2015 at 22:37.
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:12   #131
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Indeed the Union government has filed its application in the Supreme Court challenging the NGT, Principal Bench, New Delhi, ruling ordering a ban on private vehicles older than 15 years and also banning issuance of fitness certificates to all private vehicles older than 15 years.

As the matter is now sub-judice, it is expected that the Supreme Court may in all probability stay the NGT ruling with an interim order and the hearing may continue.

The government rules out total scrapping of 15 plus year old vehicles and says it is in favour of fitness tests for newer vehicles every five years and for older (15 yrs plus) such tests once every two to three years. They also intend to refer to the practices followed in developed countries and make more effective fitness tests.

It is quite a logical step taken in this direction by the government but only time will tell how effective these fitness tests will be in our country, given the several stages of corruption we find while implementing such laws.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 7th January 2015 at 23:13.
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Old 8th January 2015, 00:54   #132
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Thanks,
Im still not sure what this means. The other day I was reading that Delhi police had started impounding several hundred d cars older then 15 years. Does this mean this 15 year old ban is now of the table?

Jeroen
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Old 8th January 2015, 01:51   #133
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Thanks,
Im still not sure what this means. The other day I was reading that Delhi police had started impounding several hundred d cars older then 15 years. Does this mean this 15 year old ban is now of the table?

Jeroen
Where did you read this?
AFAIK only renewal of registration was stopped.
And cars with valid fitness could still ply on roads.
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Old 8th January 2015, 11:35   #134
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

Encountered this bit of good news, online.

http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...sh.mMRkQ6i2.dp

The TOI in Bombay & Poona are carrying similar articles, today.

Whew!

EDIT: Just noticed the previous posts. Error regretted.
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Old 8th January 2015, 15:13   #135
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Default re: Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18

As per TIMES NEWS NETWORK (New Delhi), the Govt puts off plan to retire 15-yr-old pvt cars.

Car owners need not worry as the Centre appears to have dropped a proposal to scrap 15-year-old private vehicles in Delhi as a measure to contain the rising pollution in the capital.

The ministry proposed reduction of fitness testing period from 15 years to 5 for every new vehicle purchased. After a vehicle gets 15 years old, its fitness needs to be tested every 2-3 years, it said.
Name:  08_01_2015_003_020_011.jpg
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Source: http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...8012015003020#
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