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Old 2nd December 2014, 12:07   #31
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Post Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Other annoying thing these days is, every premium bike(Harley,Kawasaki,Yamaha) owner keep their headlights on in bright day light. Guess the owners feel Day light+ Headlights on= Premium Bike. These days Hero Honda Splendour rider also has started imitating the same. Heights of Dumbness!!
Your cannot turn off headlights for some of the super bikes. This is due to a simple logic "light travels faster than sound". Even from greater distance you can see light better than you can hear a sound. But I have to agree that the projector headlamps have become a fashion with almost everyone and almost every type of vehicle. Few days from now we might be seeing bullock carts with project headlamps
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Old 2nd December 2014, 19:09   #32
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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...
Now most of the cars starting from Stingray to Jaguar XJ all sport projectors and LED's all over straight out of factory.I agree the fact that these have better design, fit and finish. However whenever i see these lights one thing that strikes my head is "FEELS CHINESE"!!!.
You do realize that Chinese knockoffs started hitting the market only after HID projector lamps and DRL LED's became a standard feature in the luxury market?

HIDs have been a standard feature for quite sometime now (in BMWs, Audis and such). And I believe Audi is given the credit for bringing LEDs to the masses.
But I do agree with you on the rampant proliferation of LEDs. Some of them of just tasteless.

And DRL is just that Daytime Running Light, lights on all the time. Its a law in some EU nations (maybe all of them). Others are just trying to copy this "cool" feature because we all want what the European/Americans have. Its as simple as that.
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Old 2nd December 2014, 19:47   #33
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by Queryanalyzer View Post
You do realize that Chinese knockoffs started hitting the market only after HID projector lamps and DRL LED's became a standard feature in the luxury market?

HIDs have been a standard feature for quite sometime now (in BMWs, Audis and such). And I believe Audi is given the credit for bringing LEDs to the masses.
But I do agree with you on the rampant proliferation of LEDs. Some of them of just tasteless.

And DRL is just that Daytime Running Light, lights on all the time. Its a law in some EU nations (maybe all of them). Others are just trying to copy this "cool" feature because we all want what the European/Americans have. Its as simple as that.
Well i am completely aware of the fact that DRL is mandatory in certain nations. Now since it is mandatory there why should same be followed in here? Agree with you that initial days they used to look nice when only premium cars used to sport them. Now even a 800 sports DRL's projectors.
This means gone is the exclusivity.
That said i dont know if its only me, in the name of DRL some have gone making entire light a DRL(Ex Audi,Mercedes) which too gaudy. Not my taste though.

What's funny though is Manufacturer remove safety kit like ESP,TC,ABS,Multiple airbags which is mandatory elsewhere but dont mind providing DRL's Projectors because they add bling factor and others dont!
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Old 3rd December 2014, 10:04   #34
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by saurabhkum View Post
+1 on that. DRL in Indian Condition is not needed with only exception being the winter season of North where fog is there. Also I feel that rather than blindly implementing the western country model , we should try to educate the driver's first. Most of the drivers while driving through tunnel turn on their warning hazard light ( blinking turn indicators). Also as far as car maker goes they save cost by keeping it standard across their domestic sales and export sales.
Incorrect.
In fog, rain or other low light conditions, you are supposed to turn on your headlights for safety. That is standard procedure in all nations. DRLs are meant to be used in normal daylight conditions as they further improve visibility of an oncoming vehicle. It is a great safety enhancement and must be made mandatory in all vehicles. There is no such thing as "Indian conditions". DRLs make a vehicle safer whether it is running in Los Angeles, London or Delhi. When I drove in the US or Europe, everyone switched on their lights during rain and fog. DRLs are not meant for that- you need headlights to make the road visible.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 10:30   #35
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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
- since it is mandatory there why should same be followed in here?

- This means gone is the exclusivity.

- That said i dont know if its only me, in the name of DRL some have gone making entire light a DRL(Ex Audi,Mercedes) which too gaudy. Not my taste though.

- What's funny though is Manufacturer remove safety kit like ESP,TC,ABS,Multiple airbags which is mandatory elsewhere but dont mind providing DRL's Projectors because they add bling factor and others dont!
- Reason mentioned already. Improves detectability. This is debatable and I was in the same boat may be 4 years ago. But then later I noticed the difference when driving on highways with DRLs. I do a lot of highway travel and have had people and vehicles dart across ahead of my speeding car. This decreased noticeably when traveling on the same highways in cars with DRLs(ON). Not just crossing situations but saves you a lot of trouble as compared to driving a car without DRLs especially when you drive on express ways and highways where you do good speeds. This is the purpose. But misuse definitely causes harm, no doubt.

- While makers made DRLs in various designs to improve aesthetics, the core purpose was not exclusivity anyways. So purpose is still solved while the additional benefit of exclusivity suffers like you mentioned, which really isn't the actual concern (for the informed and sensible lot).

- Agreed. DRLs of previous gen. i20, Audi Q5, Jaguar XF, some Range Rovers, etc. look very awkward. I think Audis will have DRLs shaped as writing "AUDI" pretty soon in both their headlamps if this goes on!

- Very true. Safety does not sell in a market with least road sense and safety awareness but DRLs, chrome, beige interiors, flashy and awkward but "different" paint jobs, etc. do. Hence makers become extremely considerate and remove safety kit saying they wanna help the guys to upgrade from bikes to keep their family safe but would add everything else (which attract the market) to boost sales.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 10:52   #36
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj View Post
- Improves detectability. This is debatable and I was in the same boat may be 4 years ago. But then later I noticed the difference when driving on highways with DRLs. I do a lot of highway travel and have had people and vehicles dart across ahead of my speeding car. This decreased noticeably when traveling on the same highways in cars with DRLs(ON).
I agree on the detectability part but more work needs to be done to make it cohesive in the design. I will explain.

I was once taken aback and got a fright on highway drive. On Mumbai-Pune expressway while coming out of a tunnel, I suddenly released a bright light at the tyre level on my right hand side rear view mirror. Just moments ago there was nothing. And trust me, I keep checking my mirrors. This sudden appearance of light took me aback and my heart missed a beat. It must have all happened in less than a second but I then realised the light being DRL of a i20.

It aided detectability - Yes. But the positioning of the light was what caused the confusion. I would rather prefer them to be integrated in headlight housing rather than bumper. That way I think you can make them less bright and intrusive and still detectable.

The other reason for the confusion was that the fellow had not turned on his headlight in the tunnel and it makes me wonder if auto-headlamps are more of a need in India rather than DRLs.

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Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj View Post
- Agreed. DRLs of previous gen. i20, Audi Q5, Jaguar XF, some Range Rovers, etc. look very awkward. I think Audis will have DRLs shaped as writing "AUDI" pretty soon in both their headlamps if this goes on!
I would prefer if they treat DRLs as safety equipments and not an aesthetic aid. Still I feel the DRLs from German luxury trio are less obstructive in your rear view mirrors and still do their job of detectability.

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Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj View Post
- Very true. Safety does not sell in a market with least road sense and safety awareness but DRLs, chrome, beige interiors, flashy and awkward but "different" paint jobs, etc. do.
I hope there are some regulations on after market DRLs just like high pressure horns.
Another menace I have found is the flashing LEDs in the silencer of bikes when they brake/ use clutch. This is very very distracting especially in bumper to bumper traffic, more so when the actual brake lights of these bikes are not functioning.

I thought that the silly music which they played a few years back on clutch use was a menace, this is far worse.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 12:10   #37
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
It aided detectability - Yes. But the positioning of the light was what caused the confusion. I would rather prefer them to be integrated in headlight housing rather than bumper. That way I think you can make them less bright and intrusive and still detectable.

The other reason for the confusion was that the fellow had not turned on his headlight in the tunnel and it makes me wonder if auto-headlamps are more of a need in India rather than DRLs.
Taken by surprise by i20 with DRLs on the bumper right? I have had the same situation, but instead of i20, it was an R8. DRLs placed nicely within the headlamp unit only but the car itself is so damn low that at the first glance of it on your rear view mirror, you'd be like 'what the'! But the sad part is, fellow had HLs off and hence DRLs were on day mode and this was night time. It was a well lit area within Chennai city. But DRLs are strictly for broad day light as the name itself suggests.

Even in cars which have an auto HL switch, people keep it to off and that's definitely a misuse. Many of the safety aids are equipment/machinery which require to be operated within certain conditions to achieve the desired result. The thinking and operating part of it lies with the driver/user. In the above examples of i20 and R8, DRLs were doing its purpose which was defeated by the drivers of those cars by not adapting to the situation (not turning on headlights in low light conditions to make the DRLs dimmer or atleast put the auto HL switch on auto if that is given).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
I would prefer if they treat DRLs as safety equipments and not an aesthetic aid. Still I feel the DRLs from German luxury trio are less obstructive in your rear view mirrors and still do their job of detectability.
If you had the same situation as the i20 incident with the above mentioned German lot, it would be as bright if the DRLs were left on day mode by the drivers. In dark, DRLs will be blinding obviously as they are supposed to be visible from a distance in extremely sunny and bright day light.

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Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
I hope there are some regulations on after market DRLs just like high pressure horns.
Regulations to improve safety are always welcome and I also hope that we see improvements in safety regulations. Aftermarket LEDs or any auxiliary lighting for that matter is illegal other than what is provided by the maker. When revenue goes down, you see cops on rampage for everything that is illegal and all these aftermarket lights get fined for.

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Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
Another menace I have found is the flashing LEDs in the silencer of bikes when they brake/ use clutch. This is very very distracting especially in bumper to bumper traffic,
You mean the ones like mentioned in this thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...hey-legal.html (F1-style flashing LED Brake Lights: Are they legal?) The worst I've seen are those blue/purple LEDs that pierce your vision like laser rays. God knows how much harmful ultra violet rays those emit.

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Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
more so when the actual brake lights of these bikes are not functioning.
That's the stupid part. Lights that are supposed to be functioning legally are ignored. Forget the legal part, whatever happened to the common sense that self would be in danger! Worst are trucks and 2 wheelers, only difference being, in the case of trucks, you could be injured/dead and in the latter, the guy being hit could be the injured/dead one.

Last edited by ajaypjayaraj : 3rd December 2014 at 12:21. Reason: Typo
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Old 3rd December 2014, 15:37   #38
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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What's funny though is Manufacturer remove safety kit like ESP,TC,ABS,Multiple airbags which is mandatory elsewhere but dont mind providing DRL's Projectors because they add bling factor and others dont!
Desirability! LED DRL is a very visible feature, you can show it off. You can't say that about ABS.

And yes Indian-market automobiles sans the safety feature (even airbags) have always perplexed me. I guess it all boils down to cost, and lack of regulation. And the manufacturers sell what the customers want. The fact that most of the vehicles on the road don't have driver/passenger airbag explains the market to you.
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Old 3rd December 2014, 16:29   #39
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

In my opinion, the DRL's project the Brand of the Car. each car, eg: BMW, Audi , merc have their own design language of projecting their DRL design.
I for one switch on my DRL in broad day light. I think it cool and my friends too identify a car based on the DRL in rear view miror. Its adds to the cool factor. Going forward, the DRL is going to be part of design language for any car manufacture just like how the front grill differentiates a car brand
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Old 4th December 2014, 16:02   #40
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
However whenever i see these lights one thing that strikes my head is "FEELS CHINESE"!!!.
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I agree with you on overdose of LED but not projector. LED lights are now a very heavy overdose with no apparent utility or actual value addition.
DRL ( Daytime Running Lights ) is a very befitting example. I have seen many cars have these DRLs always on, even in broad daylight and when temperatures of 45 Deg C. in the city I reside in. No fog or anything, but we will have those DRL.
What is exact utility of it ?
True, also the DRLs look stupid in broad daylight. Somehow I am reminded by a proverb in Tamil that says 'If a cheapo gets rich all of a sudden, he opens up umbrella in the midnight' ("Arpanuku Pavusu vandha artha rathirila Kudai peidipanaam").

Not only the DRLs, the underbody LEDs, LED strips on rear wind shield etc. all look stupid.
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Old 4th December 2014, 17:33   #41
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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True, also the DRLs look stupid in broad daylight.
DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) are to be used in broad daylight. I don't see anything wrong with most of the DRLs that come as standard fitment.

Whether it is DRLs or something else, anything overdone are bound to look stupid.
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Old 4th December 2014, 22:40   #42
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

In my view, whatever may be the reason for moving to projectors and DRLs , if installed appropriately they certainly contribute to road safety. Projectors throw lesser glare on the oncoming traffic than regular reflectors and DRLs certainly help in tricky lighting conditions

I wouldn't discourage this fashion if it helps save a life or two in a country where road accidents result in more death than heart attacks
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Old 5th December 2014, 15:43   #43
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

I do not know if this is the right thread to post but all Chennaiites will agree that the red blue LED beacon blinking lights on top of all the police Jeeps are a big nuisance. The Police think that they are some kind of NYPD type of cops but they do not realize the amount of nuisance these lights provide to us motorists, especially on signals when these throbbing lights give us nothing short of a headache.
On an even more serious note, my friend who is an epileptic had a seizure at a tea stall near his house and he says that these red blue blinkers on top of the Police Jeep triggered this particular attack.Doctors in our forum can elaborate further if there may be any truth to his claim
I request all our forum members to keep this in mind when going for cosmetic modifications. It is always better to have substance over style, at least when safety is involved.
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Old 5th December 2014, 18:10   #44
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Default Re: An overdose of LEDs & Projectors on new cars?

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I do not know if this is the right thread to post but all Chennaiites will agree that the red blue LED beacon blinking lights on top of all the police Jeeps are a big nuisance. The Police think that they are some kind of NYPD type of cops but they do not realize the amount of nuisance these lights provide to us motorists, especially on signals when these throbbing lights give us nothing short of a headache.
On an even more serious note, my friend who is an epileptic had a seizure at a tea stall near his house and he says that these red blue blinkers on top of the Police Jeep triggered this particular attack.Doctors in our forum can elaborate further if there may be any truth to his claim
I request all our forum members to keep this in mind when going for cosmetic modifications. It is always better to have substance over style, at least when safety is involved.
I have been to Chennai & seen the cop-cars with red-blue Strobe lights. There is a slight truth factor in what you said. But personally I think these are much better and effective compared to what we have here in MH.

Yes the strobes will have some negative impact. But they are far more visible and effective compared to the weak rotary mirror beacons, which are practically unnoticeable in daylight. In emergency situations the strobes are really helpful to warn oncoming traffic as well as highlight in the mirrors of vehicles in front. Perhaps they should switch it off when not required - like waiting at traffic intersections or under the metro / road flyovers.
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Old 5th December 2014, 18:25   #45
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Projector lamps improves visibility. So its good that manufacturers are having an overdose. DRLs is something not necessary in India and manufacturers are slowly backing off from it. The Elite i20, swift facelift did not get DRLs in India. Or they have saved it for the facelift. But whatever, DRLs will only look cool on German cars. Especially Audis and Angel Eyes of Bimmers.:thumbup:

Last edited by 300 KMPH : 5th December 2014 at 18:27.
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