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Old 10th August 2006, 18:39   #61
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A few queries :
1) Is it costlier to manufacture a diesel car, when compared to petrol ? if not, are the manufacturers just charging a premium for diesel cars because diesel is cheaper here ?
2) A query for those staying abroad. Are the diesel variants of cars priced higher than the petrol version ?
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Old 10th August 2006, 20:37   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
A few queries :
1) Is it costlier to manufacture a diesel car, when compared to petrol ? if not, are the manufacturers just charging a premium for diesel cars because diesel is cheaper here ?
2) A query for those staying abroad. Are the diesel variants of cars priced higher than the petrol version ?
1) YES (for same cylinder count)
2) YES
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Old 10th August 2006, 20:40   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish

Let me get a little to the history of the market segment that Innova (both P & D) are trying to capture.

It all first started with Bajaj Tempo's Matador F307, if you remember what that was.. 25 Years Back, that was the ultimate family + MPV vehicle. One in which you can load your entire family and all their belongings and pack off on a vacation.. Heck, Bajaj Tempo also came with different wheel-bases for this vehicle.

The Matador's sales saw a decline when Maruti launched the Omni, The Omni was a smaller vehicle and had lesser space than the Matador but with changing family dynamics, small families (not nuclear), with parents, kids and grandparents. So the consumer market saw a great product and took up to it immediately. As far as i understand the sales-figures for the Omni are still in the top 10 if not the top 5.

My conclusion:

1. If you have both engine options, petrol as well as diesel, the diesel options are always going to sell more in India giving the pricing dynamics.

2. If TKM had launched only a petrol version of the Innova, it would have bombed anyways, because of competition (read Omni) which is cheaper, gives better average and it better suited for urban conditions than the Innova.

3. On a side note, it is anybody's guess which vehicle will be the chart-burster when Maruti launches the Omni with a Diesel engine.

4. Tata-motors can also bring out a variant of their Ace-trucks in an MPV format and I would be very surprised if the market doesn't take up to that product well.

Enuf Said..

:-)
Matador F305/307 was never accepted as a private vehicle and I haven’t seen one person use it as one. Plus it was much larger than a Innova and could carry 10-12 people.

Omni is much smaller than Innova and is the only petrol UV that is selling in large numbers. The reason for that is that its cheap to buy and cheap to run. Matador never competed with an Omni and Innova and its sales decline had nothing do with the intro of the Omni (which was launched in 1983)

Omni and Innova are in no way comparable and nobody who shops for an Innova looks for an Omni. Omni is cramped and unsafe and rides like a bullock cart.

Ambassadors were the staple of the tourist taxi fleet until the Sumo and Qualis took over. Omni was never used as an intercity tourist taxi. Matador was used for larger groups of people. Today the Tempo Traveller has replaced the LWB Matador and the Sumo/Qualis has replaced the SWB Matador.

Last edited by Mpower : 10th August 2006 at 20:41.
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Old 10th August 2006, 20:42   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
2) A query for those staying abroad. Are the diesel variants of cars priced higher than the petrol version ?
In the US, you hardly get to see a diesel car. Even big Pick up trucks like the FORD F150 or the Chevy Silverado are all petrol.

Diesel dispensing pumps are not even located in the main area but rather in a corner where the 18 wheelers can come and fuel.

Diesel is costlier than petrol and sometimes rarely both might cost the same. In any case its not cheaper than petrol.

I would assume diesel cars cost more in the US....due to the higher mileage they offer.
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Old 10th August 2006, 20:50   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man23ish
4. Tata-motors can also bring out a variant of their Ace-trucks in an MPV format and I would be very surprised if the market doesn't take up to that product well.
OT, yes, there are reports of Tata Motors bringing out a passenger variant of the Ace.
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Old 10th August 2006, 21:03   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Matador F305/307 was never accepted as a private vehicle and I havenít seen one person use it as one. Plus it was much larger than a Innova and could carry 10-12 people.

Omni is much smaller than Innova and is the only petrol UV that is selling in large numbers. The reason for that is that its cheap to buy and cheap to run. Matador never competed with an Omni and Innova and its sales decline had nothing do with the intro of the Omni (which was launched in 1983)

Omni and Innova are in no way comparable and nobody who shops for an Innova looks for an Omni. Omni is cramped and unsafe and rides like a bullock cart.

Ambassadors were the staple of the tourist taxi fleet until the Sumo and Qualis took over. Omni was never used as an intercity tourist taxi. Matador was used for larger groups of people. Today the Tempo Traveller has replaced the LWB Matador and the Sumo/Qualis has replaced the SWB Matador.
OT.

When one talks about UV's in India, one cannot ignore the Matador, which was amongst the first UV's in India. I agree that it was copied off a volkswagon Van. But I was giving a historical account of the UV-segment into which Innova ran into.

The Matador came in 2-3 wheel bases. The shortest one came with 3 rows of seats and you can compare the size of the Innova with the shortest Matador, there won't be a huge difference. I know, coz my family owned one and ran it as a Taxi-cum-family vehicle before the Sumo and others were launched..

It is a fact, that the Omni is much smaller than either the Innova or the Matador. But then we are looking at MUV's and big or small an MUV is an MUV and the fact that both can carry 8 medium sized people while running on petrol..
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Old 10th August 2006, 21:57   #67
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Hey Rekha, is it correct, as mentioned in this thread, that you have completed your project? If yes, pls do let us know - may be we can just continue the thread in the way it is heading, and discuss these new points ..

man23ish - the Matador was avlbl in only 2 wheel base sizes - not 3. Also, the SWB had competition from the Standard 20. I think there were some Premier's too, around that time. M&M had a Jeep variant in this style.
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Old 11th August 2006, 04:25   #68
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Hey..We missing a point here?
Consider the cost. Four years ago, petrol in Mumbai cost Rs 33.63 a litre compared to Rs 23.03 for diesel, a 46% price differential. Four years later, even as petrol prices are up 59% to Rs 53.50 a litre, compared to Rs 39.96 for diesel, a 34% differential, the latter is more cost effective.
Also in 4 years we have seen lot of tech. advancement in diesel engines than the petrol engines.
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Old 11th August 2006, 13:21   #69
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor
Hey Rekha, is it correct, as mentioned in this thread, that you have completed your project? If yes, pls do let us know - may be we can just continue the thread in the way it is heading, and discuss these new points ..
hi condor,

yes as mentioned earlier, i've completed my project 2 months back. let the thread go in the way its heading. lots of info to lots of people

Last edited by Rekha : 11th August 2006 at 13:22.
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Old 13th August 2006, 19:32   #70
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I saw one Innova Petrol G2 model, its in quiet good condition, I might buy it although few people say its not worth buying Petrol Innova. I still feel time will come where people who travel less realize petrol is worth then Diesel If they go to keep the vehicle for at least 5 years. I felt bad when I saw sales fugure of Innova Petrol.


Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 18th August 2006, 09:05   #71
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Diesels are not common in the US also because the Emission requirements are pretty tough in some states. I think the 1.9 TDI on the VWs are not offered in California and Massachussets.

While the cost of producing a diesel engine is higher because the diesels generally run at a higher temperature and higher compression ratio than the petrol engines, the economy of scale also plays a big part with less people buying. I personally prefer Diesels because of the low end torque. I would've thought in India because more diesels are sold, the diesels should cost less, but may be the demand is also more.

In the US one hardly sees the VW diesels discounted as much as their petrol counterparts because they are in more demand and they bring over so few of them. Same with Innova in India I guess with the demand. May be they should discount the Petrol Innova even more so there is atleast a 2-3lakh difference between the two.

Last edited by THE-U- : 18th August 2006 at 09:10.
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Old 24th December 2006, 15:18   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekha View Post
i know "bhp" stands for break horse power. but since it was BHP(in caps) i thought it will have some other meaning. i thank Mr. Ram for giving additional info on bhp.
You mean brake , right ?
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Old 24th December 2006, 15:21   #73
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dude do read the whole thread. It was corrected.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/272055-post38.html
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