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Old 10th January 2015, 09:22   #91
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

We know that the engine + DSG gearbox combo offered in GT TSI is highly appreciated by consumers but do we know the actual sales number for GT TSI and GT TDI.

Volkswagen has said that they are happy with the response and demand for GT products but how much do they contribute towards around 2900 monthly sales of Polo?

From fellow BHPians who bought GT, we know that there is a waiting period for TSI but it could primarily be due to just in time gearbox import orders.
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Old 10th January 2015, 13:53   #92
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A waiting period says nothing about the true demand for the car:

1. Products selling in large numbers have a waiting period due to supply side constraints. Manufacturing simply can't keep up with demand.
2. For products selling in really low quantities, manufacturing and stocking inventory doesn't make sense. Therefore, car makers will only make limited production runs, or in the extreme situation of a unique color or spec, manufacture only when the order is received
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Old 10th January 2015, 17:32   #93
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

For our wishes to be fulfilled i believe we should probably ask for a hot hatch that has a great engine, handles really well, Optional Airbags and ABS ( read optional ) and pretty much thats it. I would be ok if it came without stereo, bluetooth, navigation etc because most of the folks buying hot hatches would be folks who will mod/customize a thing or two. We are best left with a car that just has provisions to mod/customize. I feel the specs and features of the middle variant of a B1 hatch or a base variant of a B2 batch would work. Something like a Swift Vxi with 1.6

This will greatly bring down the cost and would make such hot hatches commercially viable for us.
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Old 10th January 2015, 21:11   #94
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

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Originally Posted by anand_lukose View Post
For our wishes to be fulfilled i believe we should probably ask for a hot hatch that has a great engine, handles really well, Optional Airbags and ABS ( read optional ) and pretty much thats it.
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This will greatly bring down the cost and would make such hot hatches commercially viable for us.
Sorry, I hope no manufacturer think on these lines. Seriously, a hot hatchback with even airbags and ABS as an option?? Contrary to this, (thankfully), almost all manufacturers normally add on extra safety reinforcements on their performance models. Check out the specifications of the humble Suzuki Sports 1.6. Itís better equipped on safety than many of our D-segment cars.
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Old 10th January 2015, 23:32   #95
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I completely agree. I would also love to see abs and airbags as standard equipment. When you plonk in an engine with higher excise duty, the cost would be a major deterrent for manufacturers to consider such models viable... Those who need abs,airbags or anything else let them pay extra
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Old 10th January 2015, 23:43   #96
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

Are you aware of the indian tv commercial " Deti kitna hai ? "?
Yes we are talking about 90% of Indian mentality of the base on purchasing a car. Being a manufacturer, you tend to invest where you get the maximum return out. We cannot blame the manufacturers for production of hatches which fulfill the dream of every Indian wanting 20 plus kmpl.

Also, why do you keep comparing other performance model with the Suzuki? I really think that we have hot hatches already that cater to the lesser population of Indians ( say 10% ) for the moment. Yes, i say that as i own a VW Polo GT TDI. Being one of those 10% of India's population, digging the best i can get out of my budget, i went and bought the POLO GT. And i completely agree you can convert it even into a hotter hatch by putting in some more "Gandhi ji's" (the one which come on 100/500/1000 RS note ).
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Old 11th January 2015, 10:05   #97
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

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Originally Posted by shiraz View Post
A waiting period says nothing about the true demand for the car:

1. Products selling in large numbers have a waiting period due to supply side constraints. Manufacturing simply can't keep up with demand.
2. For products selling in really low quantities, manufacturing and stocking inventory doesn't make sense. Therefore, car makers will only make limited production runs, or in the extreme situation of a unique color or spec, manufacture only when the order is received
That's exactly the point I am making. We don't know how many Polo GT are getting sold. So on what basis are we saying that Volkswagen has seen success so other manufacturers must follow suit.

On a separate note, I think 2017 or 2018 could be an exciting phase for Honda car's in India when most likely they will introduce their Turbo charged petrol engines in India.

Honda has already announced that they are working on 1.0L, 1.5L and 2.0L direct injection turbo engines. The 2.0L engine is expected to make debut mid of next year followed by 1.0L and 1.5L engines in 2016. I believe these engines will first get launched in Japan, US and European markets followed by Asian markets including India in 2017/18.

The 1.0L engine will be a 3 cylinder turbo charged engine producing 130 PS and 200 Nm torque. That's super performance from a 1 litre engine. We should expect this in India in 2017.
Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast-honda1litervtecturboengine.jpg

Also, Hyundai recently unveiled 1.0-litre T-GDI three-cylinder engine producing 120PS, 172Nm of torque. The all-new Euro-spec i20 will be the first car to get the 1.0-litre T-GDI engine in 2015. So in 2016 we should expect this engine in India.
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Volkswagen Polo GT TSI is powered by a 1.2-litre turbocharged engine which generates 105 PS and 175 Nm so comparatively the new Honda and Hyundai engine for India would be exciting.
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Old 12th January 2015, 00:45   #98
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

Well why do you need to go so far, all I need is the 1.8 TSI in the Polo with a manual GB, is it asking too much, in business sense it is. Who will buy the 1.8 TSI Octavia, Jetta, A4 etc? OK fine, charge me half of Octavia! No? because the car companies think its worth more than that, to make XXXL money off course. For our math here add 13% extra excise duty and 3% extra on OTR on the Polo 1.2 GT TSI, that is what a 1.8 TSI Polo will cost in real, including excise & taxes.

Note: The car [Polo] and the engine [1.8 TSI] are both made/assembled here in India already, so there is no import of extraordinary kind here.

When Toyota can offer 1.5 Liva TRD, why not this?
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Old 12th January 2015, 10:17   #99
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

I believe everyone is now aware of the fact that Ford have stopped the Figo Production in order to make way for 2015 Figo. Link.

Motorbeam has reported this:

"The 2015 Ford Figo though is expected to come with a 1.5-litre diesel derived from the Fiesta and EcoSport along with the popular 1.0-litre EcoBoost turbocharged petrol engine. Car buyers are nowadays considering frugal petrol engine options and we hope Ford doesnít rule out a petrol engine option with the new Figo like they did with the Fiesta facelift."

I am not a big fan of the looks of either the current Figo or the Facelift, but 1.0 Ecoboost with even 110 bhp (de-tuned?) will be a HOT HATCH.
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Old 12th January 2015, 13:36   #100
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

I think in another 2 years 1L turbo-charged petrol most probably would be the order of the day. Even Hyundai is working on 1L GDI. The other revolution I hope that happens is a low cost dual clutch technology for AT versions.
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Old 12th January 2015, 14:34   #101
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I believe everyone is now aware of the fact that Ford have stopped the Figo Production in order to make way for 2015 Figo.
==============
I am not a big fan of the looks of either the current Figo or the Facelift, but 1.0 Ecoboost with even 110 bhp (de-tuned?) will be a HOT HATCH.
I read somewhere that the engine offered in Figo will be without the turbo. The Brazilian model produces around 85 bhp, which is what we can expect here (still more powerful than the current Figo petrol)
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Old 12th January 2015, 15:48   #102
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Regarding the Swift Sport: I'd love get a taste of this in India as the Swift handles like a dream - it just feels like it could do a lot more with 30bhp more. However, if you factor in all the needs and wants on this thread (1.6l engine, abs, airbags, et al), we'll end up with a 15 lakh Maruti. Three problems with this:

1. Brand loyalists will scoff at having to pay so much for a hatchback, and spew mileage oriented rhetoric
2. People with deep pockets and performance aspirations would still yield to luxury branding, opting for relatively less focused yet "cooler" cars like Mini, A3, etc.
3. Normal hatchback buyers with a decent budget (say Rs. 10 lakh) would buy a super comfy i20 elite with a "sports" badge (sic!)

Unlike VW and Fiat, Maruti's search is for a credible alternative in the D segment, and not for a hot hatch to drive branding and volumes in the mass market.
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Old 12th January 2015, 19:28   #103
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

I share the OPs enthusiasm and pray that I am fortunate enough to fork out the cash for a true blue hot hatch in the not so distant future

But before that; I pray and hope that these blood thirsty, monstrous car manfacturers start valuing the lives of their consumers and sell cars here that are at least as safe as the ones they sell abroad

In case you are wondering what this is all about - google "Swift global NCAP test". And, if I am not mistaken, isnt this one of the highest selling hatchbacks in the country?

Last edited by Urban_Nomad : 12th January 2015 at 19:30.
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Old 12th January 2015, 19:41   #104
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Urban_Nomad I totally agree with you; this is a regulatory issue. The industry shouldn't be allowed to sell any cars without some minimum mandatory safety requirements.

On another note, I test-drove the BMW 1 series, possibly the best hot hatch in the country. What I don't understand is that if our country has enthusiasts with deep pockets, then why aren't they queueing up to buy what is possibly the least popular BMW ever sold in India! As for myself, I'll have to mortgage my soul to afford this, so it's just window shopping for now.
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Old 12th January 2015, 20:52   #105
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Default Re: Desperately wanted: A Hot Hatch for the Indian enthusiast

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Urban_Nomad I totally agree with you; this is a regulatory issue. The industry shouldn't be allowed to sell any cars without some minimum mandatory safety requirements.

On another note, I test-drove the BMW 1 series, possibly the best hot hatch in the country. What I don't understand is that if our country has enthusiasts with deep pockets, then why aren't they queueing up to buy what is possibly the least popular BMW ever sold in India! As for myself, I'll have to mortgage my soul to afford this, so it's just window shopping for now.
The 1 series was a colossal rip off when it was launched. The cheapest petrol variant had an OTR price of near 30 lakh rupees and guess what? idrive, Full MID, leather seats, Drivers armrest, bluetooth, Aux port, Usb port, Climate control, were some of the stuff it didn't have . Put simply a mid variant polo was better equipped. The fully loaded diesel version if I remember was going on for about 40 lakhs OTR. Now I dont know the current state of affairs of the pricing of 1 series now. But I am pretty sure this was its pricing when it was launched. Not even the craziest petrolhead would have brought it.

Last edited by nakul0888 : 12th January 2015 at 20:54.
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