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Old 7th January 2015, 00:31   #31
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I would say its a good move by Toyota to introduce the airbags in all its vehicles being sold in India something in compliance to the forthcoming govt deadline of Oct 2015 where all the car manufacturers are required to provide ABS and airbags by default in all variants.
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Introducing airbags in all models is something that should be praised.
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Originally Posted by mi2n View Post
safety equipments should be made standard across keeping the cost at the current levels.
Sorry folks I beg to differ.
I believe India is not matured enough that OEM should make Airbags standard across all variants like US & EU. How many of us actually wear seatbelts while driving. In such cases Airbags do more harm than good. How many of us put our kids in the front seat. Child seats are not something that is really used here.

Then there is the economic condition. Lots of people are trying to migrate to 4 wheeler from 2 wheelers. Making Airbag as standard will only make it harder for them to afford one.

I believe Airbags should be kept optional. But there are informed people like us who want the safety equipments and can live without heated seats, Alloys etc. So give us that choice.
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Old 7th January 2015, 08:22   #32
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Sorry folks I beg to differ.
...
...
Then there is the economic condition. Lots of people are trying to migrate to 4 wheeler from 2 wheelers. Making Airbag as standard will only make it harder for them to afford one.

I believe Airbags should be kept optional. But there are informed people like us who want the safety equipments and can live without heated seats, Alloys etc. So give us that choice.
Not being used should not be a reason for not to provide the safety features. By that logic, even seatbelts need not be there because those migrating from two-wheelers may not be used to it. A few years back people were not used to seatbelts, which is not the case now. Basic safety is really not an option, itís a necessity.
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Old 7th January 2015, 08:57   #33
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Sorry folks I beg to differ.

Then there is the economic condition. Lots of people are trying to migrate to 4 wheeler from 2 wheelers. Making Airbag as standard will only make it harder for them to afford one.

So give us that choice.
Solution could be simple. Just air an ad during a Primetime serial, showing the effects of driving a car without seatbelts and what happens if an Airbag deploys.

I am sure no person will ever want to drive that way again. Social awareness is very much required. It is not only for the people with low or nil education but also for the well educated.

I see a lot of kids sitting on their parent's lap in the front seats. They are the educated office going crowd actually.

So it helps to advertise the harm of such practices to bring more people in line with regards to safety regulations.

One good thing that I observed is many have started using seat belts in Chennai. At least the drivers have. Hope it spreads around and people make it a point to click it before even starting the car.
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Old 7th January 2015, 08:57   #34
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The website has been updated and it shows driver + passenger airbags as standard in the specifications for Innova. Good move by Toyota and every car manufacturer is going to pass on the excise duty to the customer so there is no point in blaming Toyota for increasing prices. At least they've added airbags instead of some other unnecessary feature.

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Old 21st September 2016, 20:11   #35
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get ABS & EBD alongside airbags in India!

Instead of counting on unnecessary bling in their fleet, Toyota has done a commendable job by standardizing ABS & EBD across all variants. This step makes them abide with the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways' proposal of making ABS & dual airbags mandatory safety features for all passenger vehicles by October 2018.

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Old 21st September 2016, 21:12   #36
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Sorry folks I beg to differ.
I believe India is not matured enough that OEM should make Airbags standard across all variants like US & EU. How many of us actually wear seatbelts while driving. In such cases Airbags do more harm than good. How many of us put our kids in the front seat. Child seats are not something that is really used here.

Then there is the economic condition. Lots of people are trying to migrate to 4 wheeler from 2 wheelers. Making Airbag as standard will only make it harder for them to afford one.

I believe Airbags should be kept optional. But there are informed people like us who want the safety equipments and can live without heated seats, Alloys etc. So give us that choice.
I disagree.

Think about 30 years ago when Maruti first came.
Everyone said that we are all used to big heavy tough cars like Ambassadors and Fiats and all that. Everyone said the Maruti would fail because it could not carry the same number of people and luggage.

Did it fail?
No it didn't!

It became ubiquitous!

If educated correctly by the car manufacturers on the internet and via social media and the TV, people in India will definitely realise the value of safety.

And if the government makes safety features mandatory, then the manufacturers have no choice but to make it available at a fair price and when there is no other option, then everyone will simply accept the fact and pay and buy!

Its a bit like the prices of petrol constantly rising - everyone needs it and hence they pay and buy!

Similarly, everyone who needs/ wants a car, will pay and buy. They may downgrade on some feature or other, but because Safety has become mandatory they can't avoid getting a car that has safety features!
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Old 21st September 2016, 21:35   #37
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If someone can buy, run and maintain a car, they can definitely bear the one time minimal cost of abs, ebd and airbags!
If people don't buckle up or use child seats, we need tougher laws for that too!
I don't know if it's because of our overpopulation, we just don't seem to care about human life!
Kudos to Toyota for leading the way!
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Old 21st September 2016, 22:15   #38
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People not wearing seat belts is a major issue. Apparently they think style is more important than safety. And then again it is also a lax of being able to fine people for these things. In Delhi I come across multiple instances of sun films on cars, bikers without helmets, people without seat belts everyday while driving to and from work. The police folk just stand at red lights and let them pass. If they were strict enough to drive the law I am sure people will start following it.

To say that India is not a mature market for standard safety kit in all cars, such as ABS, airbags, etc. is not the kind of attitude we should be driving. No offence to anyone. I think this kind of attitude has put us in the place where we are today. Every manufacturer thinks they can get away by skipping these necessary safety equipments as people don't care. Make people care, that is the need of the hour. Drive it from the front. Get those police guys to do the job they are being paid for. It is a welcome move and I hope and pray that all manufacturers, especially Maruti drives this. If Maruti can come out of their lax attitude towards basic safety equipment being a must in every car I am sure people will care.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 07:08   #39
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Originally Posted by N.r.K View Post
I don't know if it's because of our overpopulation, we just don't seem to care about human life!
Kudos to Toyota for leading the way!
Absolutely. In India, right now, life is cheap. Whether human or animal.
Im just reading a book written in 1907 in which this seems very evident overall. We have this attitude to "Karma" - and we believe "what must happen will happen" and hence don't seem overly bothered.

Where else for example will a bus falling into a river and killing say 50 people or a boat capsizing and drowning some 35 people, be just another report in an newspaper, forgotten the next day and remain merely a statistic?

If this kind of thing happens say, in New Zealand, the people would mourn for years and put up all sorts of memorials etc.

Saying the above, Safety Kit in all these new cars is an absolutely essential thing, especially given the speeds at which people drive about these days.

Unless of course the vehicle in question is fast approaching "Vintage/ Classic" status and is therefore, taken out relatively occasionally, everyone's daily driver vehicle needs to have the essential safety kit in place - a minimum of ABS + EBD & some airbags.

I think, this is a good move by Toyota. I also appreciate a similar move made some months ago by VW and even Maruti...

As our country and people become more and more educated and evolved, then so will the value and respect placed on human life and limb, become more evolved and on a higher priority.

Last edited by ampere : 22nd September 2016 at 08:51. Reason: Fixed quote
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Old 22nd September 2016, 07:46   #40
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Absolutely. In India, right now, life is cheap. Whether human or animal.
Im just reading a book written in 1907 in which this seems very evident overall. We have this attitude to "Karma" - and we believe "what must happen will happen" and hence don't seem overly bothered.
It's a great point as mentioned by you. Among us, it's almost ingrained that whatever has to happen will happen and nothing can be done about it. Only in India we can actually even debate the need of mandatory safety features of a car. I can personally tell you that TBHP has helped me change my attitude towards safety - things which I considered okay might not have been best practices.
When buying my first car, there wasn't even an iota of a doubt that it should atleast have Airbags+ABS plus a decent structure. Same when we bought a car for my parents. Same when buying a child car seat and using it in backward facing position.
Its commendable that more and more manufacturers make Airbags+ABS as standard across variants. Now, we have VW, Ford and Toyota, who have done so, eventually every manufacturer has to sooner than later.


Then there is the need for consumer education. I hope both the manufacturers and the authorities spread more awareness. I have no doubt in my mind that people are changing for the better - just a matter of time really.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 09:20   #41
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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It's a great point as mentioned by you. Among us, it's almost ingrained that whatever has to happen will happen and nothing can be done about it. Only in India we can actually even debate the need of mandatory safety features of a car. I can personally tell you that TBHP has helped me change my attitude towards safety - things which I considered okay might not have been best practices.
When buying my first car, there wasn't even an iota of a doubt that it should atleast have Airbags+ABS plus a decent structure. Same when we bought a car for my parents. Same when buying a child car seat and using it in backward facing position.
Its commendable that more and more manufacturers make Airbags+ABS as standard across variants. Now, we have VW, Ford and Toyota, who have done so, eventually every manufacturer has to sooner than later.


Then there is the need for consumer education. I hope both the manufacturers and the authorities spread more awareness. I have no doubt in my mind that people are changing for the better - just a matter of time really.
I take, like you do, my own example. I consider that Im reasonably evolved and pretty well educated plus I do have some experience driving both in India and abroad, having travelled a fair bit here and there.

Apart from this I ve been an Auto Enthusiast practically since birth. And we grew up learning the value of responsible driving etc from our folks and others in the family and friends circles.

Yet, and Im quite shocked at myself here - when, in 2008 I decided I wanted to buy myself a new vehicle (upgrading from the then, Bolero), I chose to buy the simple LX variant of the Scorpio. The Scorpio had at the time, JUST been launched with Airbags and ABS in a variant called the VLX and a couple more slightly lower variants called VLS and VLE, respectively. Had I stretched a wee bit, I could have bought the VLS and been one of the early owners of a "Safe" SUV.


However, when again it was time to upgrade (as per my own aspiration/ priority bucket) in 2011, I just went straight to the Top Spec Yeti with tons of safety kit. Perfect for just my wife and I and sometimes, my folks. And I ve never regretted that decision. One just feels so much more at rest in one's mind with all those Safety Aids.

And when it came to changing my Parents car, the primary thing I was looking for was the variant with the best available safety aids, within that particular budget - so Airbags and ABS/EBD became mandatory and thats why we bought the I20 Asta. Perfect for just the two of them.

Basically I also "evolved" enough to place safety on a very high priority.

Im now a firm believer in the Safety stuff that modern cars come with nowadays. Mostly because the overall roads, speeds, crowds and potential hazards have all multiplied exponentially over the last 15 years and therefore, the better the safety kit one's car has, the better it is for one's peace of mind. (There's no convert quite like a new convert eh?)

Last edited by shankar.balan : 22nd September 2016 at 09:22.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:09   #42
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Default Re: All Toyotas to get Airbags in India!

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
How many of us actually wear seatbelts while driving. In such cases Airbags do more harm than good.
This can be tackled by few sensors in seats and seat belt locks, as is being done by many OEMs including Mercedes. Front airbags won't deploy is seat belts are not fastened.
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Then there is the economic condition. Lots of people are trying to migrate to 4 wheeler from 2 wheelers. Making Airbag as standard will only make it harder for them to afford one.
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
if the government makes safety features mandatory, then the manufacturers have no choice but to make it available at a fair price and when there is no other option, then everyone will simply accept the fact and pay and buy!... Similarly, everyone who needs/ wants a car, will pay and buy. They may downgrade on some feature or other, but because Safety has become mandatory they can't avoid getting a car that has safety features!
I have given some thought over this highly-publicized affordability aspect and done some back-of-the-hand calculations. I found that if someone says that the cost of vehicle due to added safety systems will increase significantly, they are mistaken. If manufacturers say the same, then they are lying through their teeth.

The cost of providing these features can be split as follows :
1. Design & Development cost
2. Cost for added / stiffened structure to make it stable
3. Cost of components (Airbags, ABS Modulator, Sensors, Controllers, wire harness etc.)

Almost all OEMs provide these features as standard / optional on some or other variants for domestic or export market, so no additional D&D cost is needed. Now, considering the example of Vitara Brezza, the Optional pack comes at a price of only Rs. 13,000 and consists of :
a) Co-Driver Airbag
b) Front Seat Pre-tensioner & Force Limiter
c) ABS with EBD.

Based on my experience, I estimate the cost of following remaining components as Rs. 7000 :
d) Driver Airbag
e) Airbag controller
f) Crash G-Sensors (sometimes not inbuilt in airbag controller)
g) Wiring Harness
h) Body Structure

Safety Pack Total cost-up : Rs. 20,000
Final cost : Rs. 18,000
(assuming 10% cost down due to economies of scale when every car adopts these safety components)

So, is Rs. 18,000 really so unaffordable for added safety ?? Importantly, since most of the entry and mid segment customers buy the cars on loans, this additional cost per EMI will be minimal and worth to pay.

Last edited by AutoNoob : 22nd September 2016 at 10:15.
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