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Old 3rd September 2016, 09:26   #106
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

Mercedes continues the lead in sales but Audi closes in, BMW left far behind!

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Old 3rd September 2016, 15:03   #107
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Smile Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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but Audi closes in
That was due to DELHI/NCR ban on registration of 2000+ CC Diesel engines. Next month Mercedes will steer ahead as usual.
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Old 3rd September 2016, 15:51   #108
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

This doesn't surprise me that BMW has fallen behind. They really skimp on features on the cars. I bought an X3 X20d Xline edition. On the power train front it is fantastic but for a SUV that costs about 65+ lakhs on the road plus maintenance etc, there is some major glaring omissions.

1) There is no reverse camera, despite the fact that there is a 7 inch screen. All they need is to install a rear view camera and hook it up to the screen that already exists.

2) From the outside, it looks like there are dual projector headlamps with the two DRL rings. However, one light is actually dummy and there is only a single projector. Most premium brands have moved to adaptive LED headlamps. BMW cannot even put an extra projector headlamp.

3) There is no height adjust for seat belts. Basic cars have this feature now.

I still went ahead and bought it since it had the edge over the others in performance. However, if it is not being bought as a self driven car it makes sense get one of the better kitted cars from Merc/Audi. If the GLC was available at that time, I may have leaned towards the GLC for the additional kit.

BMW need to stop treating Indian luxury car buyers as substandard to the west. Even we expect basic conveniences such as reverse camera which is not even available as an OE accessory.

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Old 3rd September 2016, 21:51   #109
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

I think BMW has been misreading the Indian market for quite sometime. Till a year back, they did not have a single petrol engine lineup for their popular models.

The market was slowly but steadily accepting petrol engines in the NCR. If the Supreme Court had banned diesel engines entirely in the NCR then BMW would have had absolutely no product to sell at all , unlike Mercedes or Audi.

Finally, when they do introduce petrol engines in the 3 and 5 series they get the most basic entry level engines at not so entry level prices.

If BMW wants their sales to improve , they have to listen to the market and give customers what the customers want and not products that BMW thinks customers need.
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Old 4th September 2016, 07:44   #110
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

I am completely amazed at the number of Audis I see on a daily basis in Bangalore. BMW has largely fallen off from the radar of 90% of buyers. It's now either Merc or Audi.
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Old 4th September 2016, 08:37   #111
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I still went ahead and bought it since it had the edge over the others in performance. However, if it is not being bought as a self driven car it makes sense get one of the better kitted cars from Merc/Audi.
I think this is one of the main reasons why BMW is consistently outsold by its rivals. In India the Luxury segment is mostly chauffeur driven. For the chauffeur driven creature comforts of Merc and Audi are more appealing and the harsh ride of most BMWs is a turn off. This then sets a precedent and the Audi and Merc become more and more aspirational and the BMW badge value is forgotten. Especially if you take tier II and semi urban India where road conditions are very unfriendly, the soft suspensions of Audis and Merc are preferred. In western India especially, I've seen, the 4 rings of Audi are the last word in status.

BMW is loved for the way their cars drive and the pleasure one gets behind the wheel, so for the self drive and enthusiast group it makes a good proposition. Unfortunately in India, in this segment, this is a small percentage.

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This doesn't surprise me that BMW has fallen behind. They really skimp on features on the cars. I bought an X3 X20d Xline edition. On the power train front it is fantastic but for a SUV that costs about 65+ lakhs on the road plus maintenance etc, there is some major glaring omissions.

1) There is no reverse camera, despite the fact that there is a 7 inch screen. All they need is to install a rear view camera and hook it up to the screen that already exists.

2) From the outside, it looks like there are dual projector headlamps with the two DRL rings. However, one light is actually dummy and there is only a single projector. Most premium brands have moved to adaptive LED headlamps. BMW cannot even put an extra projector headlamp.
Not wanting to add salt to your wounds, but the 2016 X3 20d X Line now comes with an 8.8" i Drive professional Unit with reversing camera and navigation.

Also the headlamp set up I believe is intentional to keep it in line with the design characteristics rather than cost cutting as all their international models too have it this way. Adaptive headlamps are an optional extra abroad. Unfortunately numbers in our market are not big enough for them to give us options to pick from. And the 65L on road price is largely thanks to the Indian tax structure.
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Old 4th September 2016, 09:01   #112
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I am completely amazed at the number of Audis I see on a daily basis in Bangalore. BMW has largely fallen off from the radar of 90% of buyers. It's now either Merc or Audi.

Agree when it comes to Tech and features Audi is ahead. They are going to further consolidate the lead with the new A4. The virtual cockpit stuff will really excite the average luxury car buyer in India. Can't understand why BMW can't see the importance of such features. My MSport X1 doesn't have a cruise control and reverse camera? BMW needs to start think features and also introduce models more frequently to get any where close to the other 2.
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Old 5th September 2016, 13:46   #113
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
BMW is loved for the way their cars drive and the pleasure one gets behind the wheel, so for the self drive and enthusiast group it makes a good proposition. Unfortunately in India, in this segment, this is a small percentage.
True that. Hence BMW will need to definitely start getting realistic with the kit they offer in the Indian Market.


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Not wanting to add salt to your wounds, but the 2016 X3 20d X Line now comes with an 8.8" i Drive professional Unit with reversing camera and navigation.
I have a feeling it is the GLC affect. There was no direct rival to X3 from the Mercedes stable until the GLC was launched. I think the GLC will definitely take a bite out of the X3/Q5 Market.

Personally, I will miss the screen/nav/reverse camera updatet, But I am glad they have decided to offer this on a 65 lakh plus car which they should have done from the beginning.



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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Also the headlamp set up I believe is intentional to keep it in line with the design characteristics rather than cost cutting as all their international models too have it this way.
Good to know at least this is not India specific.



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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Adaptive headlamps are an optional extra abroad. Unfortunately numbers in our market are not big enough for them to give us options to pick from. And the 65L on road price is largely thanks to the Indian tax structure.
True. The cheaper 520d actually comes with Adaptic LED headlamps.
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Old 6th September 2016, 02:12   #114
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
I am completely amazed at the number of Audis I see on a daily basis in Bangalore. BMW has largely fallen off from the radar of 90% of buyers. It's now either Merc or Audi.
Fallen off the radar of 90% buyers! That's a pretty harsh statement. I can bet, the volume share is still comfortably > 15% of the premium car market.

Another dimension is that in Delhi NCR+ Chandigarh alone, BMW lags 100+ units behind MB. Thanks to the so far limping Delhi sales efforts as evident from different threads in the forum itself. If one considers Delhi NCR as Achilles heal for BMW then the numbers from rest of India will start looking in the fighting range.

Forgive me for my loyalty, been a BMW fan since 2005 starting from my E60 530d. The decade plus journey has been awesome indeed.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:54   #115
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Another dimension is that in Delhi NCR+ Chandigarh alone, BMW lags 100+ units behind MB. Thanks to the so far limping Delhi sales efforts as evident from different threads in the forum itself. If one considers Delhi NCR as Achilles heal for BMW then the numbers from rest of India will start looking in the fighting range.
Didn't get this point. In Delhi and NCR BMW's could actually sell their 2.0 Ltr Diesel cars as they were technically below 2ltrs while Mercedes couldn't sell any diesel car as they had nothing below 2ltrs. And inspite of this Mercedes actually outsold BMW in Delhi NCR region (Purely selling Petrols) then why should this market be removed for calculations?
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:19   #116
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Forgive me for my loyalty, been a BMW fan since 2005 starting from my E60 530d. The decade plus journey has been awesome indeed.
I too am a die hard fan of BMW and that's precisely why I bought one. The best thing a fan can do to a company is give honest feed back about right and wrong. You can't deny the fact that they are trailing the other two..
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Old 6th September 2016, 13:26   #117
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Fallen off the radar of 90% buyers! That's a pretty harsh statement. I can bet, the volume share is still comfortably > 15% of the premium car market.
I stand by my words! Results of a quick walkabout in my well-heeled gated community (admittedly age profile is 50+) looking for luxury vehicles:

3 Mercedes M SUVs + 1 GLA + 1 C + 1 E
3 Audis (A3, 2 A6)
1 Countryman,
1 Evoque
1 Freelander

As others have pointed out it's probably a combination of a more driver-oriented driving dynamics/setup (thereby appealing to the niche enthusiast community who can afford 40L+), comparatively less bling and kit, use of RFTs etc. which is the cause. Advertising is pretty aggressive so that can't be the cause.

Anyway this is an ideal time for BMW to re-look at strategy and variants in India.
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Old 7th September 2016, 02:58   #118
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Default Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

I think it's market dependent, while I know of dozens of customers only sticking to Mercedes and BMW in Chennai citing higher ownership costs and mediocre ASS in case of Audi and JLR. Almost all of them switched back to the oldest Germans after trying the others.

While visually, in Chennai I see more Mercs closely followed BMs, so I can imagine how hard it would be to find BMs in the other market because somewhere that higher market share in one market has to be averaged out.

But then, if in one market BM is doing well what is that they are doing badly elsewhere. It can't be the product - probably it's a different customer base or the dealer isn't up to the mark or the missing kit in the sweet priced popular variants and unexciting interiors in the bread and butter models. But, in that case they can't do well in any market! It would be great to hear ASS experiences possibly leading to lower or higher sales.

On a side note, the RFT issue has now been addressed with a trunk eating spare wheel. Personally, I have used 5 BMWs for over 8 years and 1,50,000 km now and have had only 3 punctures and 2 on the same car, same day and to be fair the roads were abysmal even by very low Indian standards! Also, never had a breakdown, or beyond par service bills.

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Old 7th September 2016, 04:01   #119
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
In India the Luxury segment is mostly chauffeur driven.
I think this is pretty sad TBH. The sheer joy of driving such a car is what appeals to me the most, not having someone else enjoy driving it! I do understand that in India it is mostly due to practical reasons that people have drivers/chauffeurs but I still think it is very sad that someone buys a high-end car only to have someone else enjoy all the driving!

Back to the topic though, Mercedes are making some very desirable cars these days, though they could do with revising the model names as some are pretty confusing, especially now that they have so many variants within each segment.
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Old 5th October 2016, 07:16   #120
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Default Re: Mercedes & Audi battle for top spot. BMW far behind

It is almost certain Mercedes Benz will be the topper in 2016 sales figures.

For September the story continues but Audi is closing in.
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