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Old 7th January 2015, 16:02   #46
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
While I agree that we could pay a premium for peace of mine, there's a distinct line between offering a premium vehicle and price-gouging. What Toyota is doing is the latter. With no competitors in sight and the ones that are aspiring to get there squarely shooting themselves in the face (hello Mahindra!), this is the monopoly run. Not to mention that even some of the competition is pushing their clients to Toyota with their terribly ugly product (er.. Enjoy / Evalia). While all that is explained as "this is just business, deal with it", Indian customers are a vengeful lot. Toyota better remember that.

I think once the new Endeavour and maybe the next gen Hyundai's get into the playground, this may stop. As of now, it's just time to watch the customer being taken for a ride, albeit a safe and trouble-free one.
Totally agree. After all a Fortuner is in many ways a bigger Innova that shares same platform and parts. I dont see why cost-gap should be so large.

The thing is that, until recently, Indians didnt have access to foreign cars and now that the market is growing they just want to fulfill their desires that the rest of the world has already fulfilled, even if they have to pay double the price compared to what rest of the world pays.
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Old 7th January 2015, 17:15   #47
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Expecting a review from Mods for the new versions of Fortuner... the most unbiased and relevant.
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Old 7th January 2015, 19:29   #48
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Would not go near the Fortuner till we get to know the reviews, drive tests, etc. The pricing is frankly ridiculous, unless this is a VAST improvement over the previous version. Previous version had a poor de-tuned engine, low segment interiors, and guzzled fuel like a truck. Unless they are offering a completely new engine package (and not just 4X4 feature), this makes no sense.

Fortuner has been surviving purely on "Butch" value, and because there are so many rich politicians and industrialists who can employ drivers to chauffeur them around in style. Like Innova, it has benefited hugely from lack of competition. I hope that changes some time.
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Old 7th January 2015, 20:41   #49
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Just dropped by @Harsha Toyota on the way back from office. The latest price sheet is attached. I think the only Fortuner I will be able to afford will be a pre-owned one.

I really look forward to a review of the 2.5L MT and AT in this forum. I'm sure it will be interesting.
Attached Thumbnails
2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)-wp_20150107_18_30_34_pro.jpg  


Last edited by Contrapunto : 7th January 2015 at 20:44. Reason: Minor edits
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Old 7th January 2015, 20:43   #50
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
While I agree that we could pay a premium for peace of mine, there's a distinct line between offering a premium vehicle and price-gouging. What Toyota is doing is the latter. With no competitors in sight and the ones that are aspiring to get there squarely shooting themselves in the face (hello Mahindra!), this is the monopoly run. Not to mention that even some of the competition is pushing their clients to Toyota with their terribly ugly product (er.. Enjoy / Evalia). While all that is explained as "this is just business, deal with it", Indian customers are a vengeful lot. Toyota better remember that.
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Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
Ha ha ha ha . They are really shooting themselves in the face man! Couldn't stop laughing at that one. But you've hit it on the dot. What the other players are apparently failing to see is a very simple point. Everyone wants the company to make money but the way Toyota is doing it it pretty simple. And commanding a premium for is well! They do not go by the la carte bells and whistles way(Hyundai), or mediocre build quality and performance or by any other cheap gimmick. They do so by offering the customer something very basic, fundamental yet most important. A car which has rock solid legendary reliability backed up by honest and great after sales which doesn't burn your pocket badly every time you see the dealerships face. And the Indian customer is willing to pay up a premium for that. That should ring some bells for the 'face shooters' but either they can't match the engineering brilliance of Toyota or maybe they just don't subscribe to the idea. Either ways, Toyota is the one laughing all the way to the bank, and the buyers are happy too.
It is true that Toyota is taking prices of their vehicles to another level. But they are not alone in doing this thing. Look at VW. Jetta prices have shoot up to 20+ Lakh for the top model which used to hover around 18L a few years back. Honda have priced City top model at over 11 Lakh which was Civic territory. I think this is the trend in the market in recent times. Almost all manufacturers are increasing prices every year with every new generation launch/model update. Yes Fortuner is definitely not a 30L car. Nor the Innova has anything special to command 16L on-road. But atleast they offer better aftersales and resale than the rest.

Last edited by Carpainter : 7th January 2015 at 20:45.
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Old 7th January 2015, 22:32   #51
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

My innova is in its 6th year now, bought in 2005, it has been driven for 93000 joyful kilometers.
Over this time, the only thing that has failed is high beam on two light bulbs ...

Of course we had a battery change at 65k and couple sets of 225/60R15 Yoko C.drives but guess that is normal.

The steering feels tight, body does not rattle and plastics look the car was made a few months ago. People ask me to change..but what do I change to..another Innova? and why

Last edited by Buffetfan : 7th January 2015 at 22:33.
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Old 7th January 2015, 22:37   #52
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

That itself is worth the premium price tag, I guess. It's impressive that after 5 1/2 years, your only niggle was a light bulb. Built to last! Happy motoring!

There's a lesson here for other car manufacturers. Toyota Way!
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:08   #53
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
My innova is in its 6th year now, bought in 2005, it has been driven for 93000 joyful kilometers.
Over this time, the only thing that has failed is high beam on two light bulbs ...
I am in the same dilemma. My Innova is 2006 model. I bought it pre-owned, and have logged a LOT of miles to it and its odometer is now running at 180k Kms. I have not faced any serious issue that could not be fixed in its regular service schedule. Over the years, I have replaced many worn out parts without breaking the bank. Maintenance costs are low, and on my Yokohama C drives, the ride quality is still plush and the ride, fairly silent. For all else, there is my Bose noise cancelling headset. You get the distinct feeling its good for another 200k Kms.

I am not an "enthusiast". I drive sedately through dense traffic and often long distances, never test its speed limits ever, don't care about the fact its a tad underpowered, nor do I care much for dynamics beyond the fact that it should be "go-to-sleep comfortable" when the driver is on the at the helm. The only thing I yearn for is a power steering when I am driving it myself.

So the question is, what do I buy that is (a) better, and (b) long term value for money. Ergo, another Innova with power steering. And I suppose there are many like me. And THAT is why Toyota thrives.
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:12   #54
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
My innova is in its 6th year now, bought in 2005, it has been driven for 93000 joyful kilometers.
Over this time, the only thing that has failed is high beam on two light bulbs
The steering feels tight, body does not rattle and plastics look the car was made a few months ago. People ask me to change..but what do I change to..another Innova? and why
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
That itself is worth the premium price tag, I guess. It's impressive that after 5 1/2 years, your only niggle was a light bulb. Built to last!
Somehow, almost all modern cars perform flawlessly. Our Baleno was super reliable, so is Wagon R. Wagon R has seen a crash, still after repairs works reliably. Even our humble little M800 which served us for over 1.3 lakh kms. worked well, the headlight switch having the same click for almost 20 years.

Reliability is offered by others also, not only Toyota. Maruti Suzuki or even Hyundai for that matter, did not build its reputation without offering reliability. IMO, Innova is simply not worth the premium price tag.
We had to change door beading in our Innova within a couple of years of ownership, did not have to do that in any other car we have owned.

If we discuss Innova :
The difference between highest and lowest variant is 50%. I am sure Toyota does not add in even 35% value (in terms of rupees vis-a-vis features ) of lower variant for the top end one. Its way too much difference between lowest and highest variant.
Engine remains super noisy in an era where smaller and lighter cars offer much, much better refinement.
Spares such as headlamp assembly, tail lamp assembly, ORVM are really not that cheap, . Its pretty much evident that Toyota is milking the Indian customer for margins. If we leave Corolla aside, almost all Toyota diesels sold in India are noisy, more than the contemporary competition.
Tata still has a very strong opportunity to fight back. Aggressive marketing campaigns with extended warranty schemes might install more confidence into buyers to opt for Aria.

IIRC, back in 2005 when we purchased Baleno, Innova was around 7.5-8 lakh OTR. Its way too much price increase and simply unexplainable gap among the pricing of variants. Only Ertiga manages sales comparable to Innova and it seems we have to wait for new Xylo to take the challenge upto Innova. Innova is not VFM any more. Certainly with better engineering efforts and better after sales experience, Xylo can really take up the challenge where Aria failed due to poor pricing strategy by Tata.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 7th January 2015 at 23:18.
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:13   #55
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

PS : Note the typo in my prev post..my car was purchased in end 2009 not 2005
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:20   #56
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Somehow, almost all modern cars perform flawlessly. Our Baleno was super reliable, reliability. IMO, Innova is simply not worth the premium price tag.
We had to change door beading in our Innova within a couple of years of ownership, did not have to do that in any other car we have owned.
Only Ertiga manages sales comparable to Innova and it seems we have to wait for new Xylo to install VFM packages in MPV segment. Innova is not VFM any more.
Innova seatbelts do not retract if twisted by the wearer and hence many a times people inadvertently bang doors on the seatbelt hook against the beading. Was that the reason in your case? else very surprising.
I own a Baleno too, 89.5k in the Baleno versus 93k in the Innova. All I can say is that while Baleno has been super reliable, I did have to change one lower arm @ 9k, car rattles a bit more than Innova and in general, seems to have aged more than it. The Maruti service here will take ages to reach Toyota standards. First time you tell them of a niggle, they will call it a standard feature. Second time you point a rattle, and they will say they cant hear it. As opposed to Toyota service who always try to put them in your shoes and rarely make excuses!
To each his own IMHO, with Innova it is not only reliability but also the fact that there are no niggles and the car DOES NOT AGE.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 7th January 2015 at 23:24.
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Old 7th January 2015, 23:48   #57
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

I am glad a lot of people feel that the Fortuner is overpriced. The guys at Toyota must be glad that this car is a big hit and why not, it's got nothing running for in its favour, a harsh ride, low mileage, bare basic interiors, looks the same except for some facial changes in the front and back(good cost cutting there) it's not particularly good to look at also. The 3 Litre 169 BHP engine and looks that will make even the most squirmiest squirrel think twice before crossing the road is keeping this car alive.

Our Babu's in the govt love it, people want it and kids scream in it. The boldness of Toyota to say "yeah this is what you'll get, basic interiors, some safety kit, a couple of acronyms thrown here and there, wooh check out this small wood patch on the steering and look the third row seats a perfect fit for your kids and that's going to cost you 30 Lakhs, sorry no discounts".

I love this car, the sheer raw power from that engine, plus the fact that it just works no matter how many years it has aged but I cannot bring myself to shell out more than 30+Lakhs on a car that has the brand name as a Prius. It is not a Lexus, nor a BMW nor an Audi it's a mass manufacturer's car and demanding that price bah "It happens only in India".

Last edited by D'Artagnan : 7th January 2015 at 23:49.
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Old 8th January 2015, 00:50   #58
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Crazy pricing for the Fortuner!

I don't understand why car manufacturers keep the best variants for the end of the product lifecycle. I really feel shortchanged that I don't have the passenger airbag on my Innova! Who knows I might have saved some more money and bought a lower variant if it came with airbags abs and rear ac vents!

I think Mitsubishi missed a big opportunity by not launching the 4x4 at on the pajero sport. Now they are simple playing catch up with the fortuner.

As for the variants I wonder how long before they discontinue the 3.0 litre engine on the 4x2 variants of the fortuner. But then I guess Toyota wants to have all bases covered.

Like many here I too am waiting for the new Innova and hope that it comes with some more power + an automatic option.

The success of Toyota with both these vehicles despite their whimsical pricing and the reluctance of other manufacturers to provide a significant challenge is one of the phenomenon which can not be explained. Totally beats me as to how can a car have no challenger for 10 years in case of the innova and 5 in case of the fortuner
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Old 8th January 2015, 01:31   #59
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

At this rate, I am going to be spending my 28L on the non-existent Toyota share instead of the car. This is utterly annoying. The price of the car has gone up by 30-35% in 5 years with very limited features added.
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Old 8th January 2015, 08:26   #60
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

Holly! Who would have thought the 2.5L will cost more than the 3L. This really followed how Macan became more expensive than the Cayenne. Its a bitter pill to swallow even if the lesser spec has a better kit.


The all black interiors are the biggest plus I guess. Can't wait to see some more pics. Here are some samples from the official site.

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A friend of mine was following the 2.5L and became dejected after the prices were announced. I am urging him to go ahead with his purchase. Who knows where the price will be come next update considering where Prado and LC currently are.

The prices of most new launches are becoming aberrations! Or is it the norm nowadays? Its a dreaded thought!
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