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Old 20th January 2015, 16:44   #106
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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I find the statement about staying away from Toyota if one wants features quite bizarre. If they operated with the same snooty attitude globally as they do here, they'd be a bit player in the car market. If I'm spending north of 30 lakhs, I want features and reliability. I have always found the level of kit, especially safety kit, in their cars, for the money they charge, sorely lacking. It's the reason I have never bought a Toyota.

This market has a way of teaching manufacturers a lesson -- Honda also thought they were a premium carmaker at one time.
Totally agree ! Of course the Indian Market is not at all demanding but nothing wrong in expecting at least basic safety features, when somebody spending 28+ L for a vehicle.
Fortuner success is nothing but lack of competition in that segment.I don't think Just the brand name will work always.
If 17L XUV500 can offer almost all features, then i would say Toyota should provide at least basic safety features for 28L Fortuner.
I strongly believe New Endeavour is worth waiting
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Old 23rd January 2015, 23:23   #107
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Fortuner is less kitted in all the markets compared to that market everywhere.
I would like to disagree. Fortuner TRD variant in Thailand is offering a lot more features.

http://www.toyota.co.th/fortuner/trd.php
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Old 24th January 2015, 12:00   #108
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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4. No foldable keyfob either.
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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
Autofold is offered as an accessory.
Yup, at a princely sun of Rs. 5,000 (via key-fob)


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It is after all a truck with impeccable offroading capabilities (without any noteworthy competition yet) which should not be compared to a humble Hyundai compact sub-4m sedan. You want features stay away from Toyota (any and all Toyotas), period.
The consumer profile is such that the price increase doesn't bother them. Interestingly, while the Pajero Sport is Fortuner's true alternative, there is no true upgrade to it. Especially the way Fortuner's price is going upwards.

I did start a thread (Dearth of SUV choices in the 30 - 50 Lakh price bracket)on it.
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Old 24th January 2015, 13:40   #109
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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The consumer profile is such that the price increase doesn't bother them. Interestingly, while the Pajero Sport is Fortuner's true alternative, there is no true upgrade to it. Especially the way Fortuner's price is going upwards.

I did start a thread (Dearth of SUV choices in the 30 - 50 Lakh price bracket)on it.
Totally agree, the price increase won't matter much to the profile of customers buying this car. If a Swift's price increases from 8.5 to 10, the number of customers will decrease, same does not hold true here.

Morever if you buy a Fortuner now, rest assured for atleast 10 to 15 years of your car life are taken care of even if you drive 15 to 20 thousand kilometers a year. The reliability part is shatteringly lucrative.
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Old 24th January 2015, 13:58   #110
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Morever if you buy a Fortuner now, rest assured for atleast 10 to 15 years of your car life are taken care of even if you drive 15 to 20 thousand kilometers a year. The reliability part is shatteringly lucrative.
That goes for all Japanese cars. Nothing special about Toyota. Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan are equally reliable, if not more. Even humble Suzuki is.
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Old 24th January 2015, 16:00   #111
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Old 24th January 2015, 17:43   #112
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All,

I went through some what similar critique feelings before buying the Fortuner.

The product is quality loaded, offers true peace of mind and is a pleasure "everyday" of your driving life!!

It is no doubt an expensive one- but good things do come at a price! Some higher in the band, some lower- but expensive!

Look at my own example- first Scorpio at ~13 lakhs, second Scorpio at ~14 lakhs, 27 lakhs pure purchase cost in 8 years. Ownership was a joy but riddled with very high maintenance(time and cost-both from my side). So, I decided to plonk the big ones on a Fortuner this time and will own the car for a minimum of 8-10 years( along with other cars at home being constant).

Toyota as a business house will milk us for the benefits of its innovation. There are no two ways about it!!😃😃
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Old 26th January 2015, 00:07   #113
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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All,

I went through some what similar critique feelings before buying the Fortuner.

The product is quality loaded, offers true peace of mind and is a pleasure "everyday" of your driving life!!

It is no doubt an expensive one- but good things do come at a price! Some higher in the band, some lower- but expensive!

Look at my own example- first Scorpio at ~13 lakhs, second Scorpio at ~14 lakhs, 27 lakhs pure purchase cost in 8 years. Ownership was a joy but riddled with very high maintenance(time and cost-both from my side). So, I decided to plonk the big ones on a Fortuner this time and will own the car for a minimum of 8-10 years( along with other cars at home being constant).

Toyota as a business house will milk us for the benefits of its innovation. There are no two ways about it!!����
Please shed that notion that only Toyota provides peace of mind. All Japanese cars are super reliable and provide peace of mind. Even humble Suzuki is super reliable. BTW, Scorpios and high maintenance? The ones that I have seen go on and on and on with only periodic oil changes etc.

Coming to Fortuner, its biggest success is its looks. The high-bonnet and square butch looks do the trick. No other SUV in India from Duster to any of those hatchback-like German SUVs or even butch Rovers come close. The price rise hardly effects this car as most patrons of this car are politicos/realtors types who do not look for bank finance etc. like most of us do. They drive down to showrooms in their friends' Fortuners (again) with a plastic bag stuffed with 30 big ones, plonk it on the table and say,"get a new white one out front in 10 minutes." Since even some crores are pocket change for these guys, if 30 lakh Fortuner shoots up to 60 lakh, they will still buy it. They are smitten by its looks and not performance. There are many SUVs which can run rings around this in performance but not in looks. Incidentally, these same guys were once patronising white Scorpios until Fort'ner appeared. Competition is sleeping. Mitsubishi shot itself in the head. Pretty soon, we will have more Lamborghini Showrooms in India than Mitsu's. And Ford? We have seen how they managed Ecosport. And a typical Fortuner buyer will not buy Santa Fe even if it came at 10 lakhs less.
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Old 26th January 2015, 07:50   #114
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"Please shed that notion that only Toyota provides peace of mind. All Japanese cars are super reliable and provide peace of mind. Even humble Suzuki is super reliable. BTW, Scorpios and high maintenance? The ones that I have seen go on and on and on with only periodic oil changes etc."

Hello,

Since the thread was limited to Toyota products, hence only Toyota was mentioned. There is nothing humble about Suzuki, it is a good brand by itself.

My experience with Scorpio's is having owned them and recorded the maintenance charges! I don't need to convince anybody about what my experience is, just shared to put the things in right perspective.

Fortuner's have looks coupled with great quality and reliability! I have shared my buying logic on my ownership thread and do not hail from the 'majority' buyer definition per below.

I agree with the fact that Fortuner is an overpriced car!!
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Old 26th January 2015, 11:56   #115
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

While this thread is limited to Toyota and we are discussing the merits of it vis a vis with others, it goes without mention that the erst while Scorpio was not as niggle free as it is now or in general as Toyota vehicles are.

Fortuner has its merit and so has Innova and that is why they continue to sell. Fortuner might not have much competition but Innova has, a bit more than Fortuner (but not as a people mover) Reliability is the biggie and everyone swears by it.
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Old 26th January 2015, 12:32   #116
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Innova has, a bit more than Fortuner (but not as a people mover) Reliability is the biggie and everyone swears by it.
I think competition has actually helped Innova. More and more people are accepting a mini MPV as their family vehicle rather than sedans. And the Toyota looks more appealing now that the overpriced Mobilio has joined the game.

But- I think Lodgy will turn out to be a tough rival. The taxi market is also used to the Renault levels of reliability so it would not take them long to migrate to the cheaper option.
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Old 26th January 2015, 12:42   #117
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
But- I think Lodgy will turn out to be a tough rival. The taxi market is also used to the Renault levels of reliability so it would not take them long to migrate to the cheaper option.
But space? And what about Toyota's level of competence in service + no of service outlets? Rust issues? I would be wary of touching any Renault/Nissan products because of this.

Xylo is a more formidable rival, but never caught on.
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Old 26th January 2015, 12:50   #118
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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That goes for all Japanese cars. Nothing special about Toyota. Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan are equally reliable, if not more. Even humble Suzuki is.
Sorry but I do not agree with this. All Japanese cars are reliable but Toyota is a notch above the likes of Nissan, Honda and Suzuki.

Take a look at the City thread with niggles faces. Take a look at Swift and recently launched Ciaz thread.

Both Honda and Maruti Suzuki are reliable but the Toyota in comparison is bullet proof. Maruti has the advantage of cheap spares which can be replaced without burning a hole in pocket.

Regarding Nissan just look at the Sunny ownership threads to see the irritating problems faced by them.
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Old 26th January 2015, 21:57   #119
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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Sorry but I do not agree with this. All Japanese cars are reliable but Toyota is a notch above the likes of Nissan, Honda and Suzuki.

Take a look at the City thread with niggles faces. Take a look at Swift and recently launched Ciaz thread.

Both Honda and Maruti Suzuki are reliable but the Toyota in comparison is bullet proof. Maruti has the advantage of cheap spares which can be replaced without burning a hole in pocket.

Regarding Nissan just look at the Sunny ownership threads to see the irritating problems faced by them.
There are several threads right here on teambhp about Innova niggles. One can search and see. I'm also sorry but I won't agree with you. As for Maruti niggles reported, the reason is Maruti sells at least 7-8 times more cars than Toyota does. So, in absolute terms more Marutis will be reported for niggles. Ok, may be what you say may hold god for Nissan though. Because it is now more French than Japanese.

BTW, I do not like this overhype about Toyota or Honda reliability. Years ago I read how one auto magazine used to say Honda made best petrol engines in the world and how Honda engines are worth their weight in gold and how that engine deserves to be put on a pedestal and worshipped. What crap! It may be a shade better but why do eople have to get carried away and use so much adjectives. The same stereotype would have us believe that Japanese cars last a million years and Tata or Mahindra cars break down as you drive from showroom to your home.
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Old 26th January 2015, 22:23   #120
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Default Re: 2015: The updated Innova and Fortuner (now with a 2.5L variant)

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The same stereotype would have us believe that Japanese cars last a million years and Tata or Mahindra cars break down as you drive from showroom to your home.
I think I am in a good position to comment on Toyota's reliability compared to other manufacturers. I bought my current Innova after having bought and owned 4 Tatas, 1 Mahindra, 1 Honda and 1 Maruti over a span of last 15 years. All cars except the Mahindra, were driven for more than 60k kms and owned for more than 3 years.

While I never had a failure with all these cars that were owned for more than 3 years, none gave me the satisfaction of ownership that I drive out of the Innova. The Innova is the vehicle which even after substantial use, still drives like I may have just driven it out of the showroom yesterday. By the way this car is 81k on the clock and is into its 28th month of ownership.

Before you see this as a bias, let me tell you that the 2.2 Dicor Safari remains the favourite car I owned. I loved it. I have an ownership report of it here and by comparison I don't have one for Innova - I just lack a connect for the Innova. But speaking very objectively, it is certainly the best car I have owned. Because its so reliable, it doesn't age as fast as other cars, it is so predictable and the dealer offers an exemplary level of service support. For example this is how the 80k service went for Innova. I booked a service for it on a Thursday by phone. On Saturday a personnel from the dealership came to pick my car at 9am and at 2.30pm the car was delivered back to my door step. It was just regular service and estimate given was Rs 7000/- and I was charged about Rs 7300/- for the service.

Last edited by rrsteer : 26th January 2015 at 22:30.
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