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Old 9th January 2015, 09:29   #76
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by CarNerd View Post
I think Fiat, Ford & GM should shut their shops & exit instead of building cars that neither make any sense
And then what? We all buy from the Japs and Kors? Flimsy boxes delivering high mileage is not everyone's idea of a car. Ford and Fiat makes some nice cars, and some of us would swear by them.
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Old 9th January 2015, 10:01   #77
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Not necessarily, because with a front end / grill tweaked to resemble the Duster and with the fuel efficient engine, it could smell success.
Evalia failed because of the sliding doors and glasses and the Chevvy's image.
Rajeev, Evalia is part of the Nissan Renualt JV and not GM's Chevrolet.

You have probably confused it with the Chevrolet Enjoy!!
Even if you include the Duster Grille, I do not see how it can really create a better image.
This model is based on the decade old Dacia chassis and does not bring any modernity on the table.

Evalia failed because the masses could not see a value in the proposition.
Sliding doors cannot really be attributed to the failure of a car!!


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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Agree with you 100%. Moreover, the Duster itself looks like a decade-old one, especially from rear. when I saw the Duster for the first time, I thought Renault brought in an old model which was discontinued from other markets.
Very correct Romeo.
These are all large MNCs with deep pockets for R&D and Design.
Yet, none of the cars from the French have been pleasing to look at.

They have lookers in the Clio and the Megane. Why are we being dished out the Pulse(polio) and the Monkey faced Scala?

Last edited by arnabchak : 9th January 2015 at 10:02.
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Old 9th January 2015, 10:17   #78
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by madhu33 View Post
Well it seems the ZEST buzz is already on the decline.

They have to be content with these numbers and keep churning out decently better VFM cars(compared to segment competition).
They have to keep bringing newer cars to the market one after the another.


They have only themselves to blame for the situation.
They have been too lethargic to bring newer things to the market.
Whatever be the reason or reasons for the flat sale numbers of Zest, it is a good car. The Buzz is confined to the forum. Ground situation is greatly different. In semi urban and rural market, where Indicas still have some demand, very few know or heard about Zest and fewer show interest - that is until they have seen the car in metal. Whatever sales Zest manages hasnt percolated to tier 2 & 3 cities.

Zest is a VFM product, with a slightly premium bunch of features ( alloys on all variants, audio & phone controls on steering from the second variant, very good sound system from second variant onwards, ABS from second variant onwards) at competitive prices.

Rides and handles better than the Dzire, has enough grunt to compete at speed stakes with competition, with very good brakes.

Returns 20 kmpl+ consistently. Doors do close with thud, they do not sound tinny.

However, perception-wise, Tata's unfavourable brand image has come to haunt the Zest and will do so in foreseeable future unless TML pulls together the act.

Apart from the qualities ( or lack of them) of Zest, the market has seen massive discounts this December. Even the mighty Dzire was offered at almost 90 K discount and the Ritz was sold with more than a lakh discount(ofcourse, terms and conditions apply). Even Xcent, which has till October some sort of waiting period ( depending upon the colour/variant) and no discount was offered with 75 K discount. Not many escaped this discount sale this side of 10 lakh price.

Last edited by simplyself : 9th January 2015 at 10:26.
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Old 9th January 2015, 10:51   #79
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Red face Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Ah that time of the month again, when we all start playing pundits, express emotions like surprise, distress, happiness, confusion etc. I think we would all do well if we were to tell ourselves that the sales figures tell us only one part of a larger story and even more confoundingly the parts that each of the manufacturers and their products is uniquely individual. Therefore the application of the same yard sticks for judgements is something that should not be done. But there are exceptions to this problem.

The best example is GM. What are they even doing in India? The don't seem to have the numbers in a year that Maruti has in a month. And this is something that is going on and on so there is no need to give them a benefit of doubt.

Ford is a one trick pony. Remove the EcoSport and Ford will have to pack whatever they and can leave silently.

Hyundai is doing alright for now, but is not totally invulnerable. I certainly would not pull the plug on a car like the Santro that was selling consistently over 3000 units per month. Other companies would eat whatever you feed them for numbers like that. But I am sure they have their reasons and those will show up at some point in the future and we can say if Hyundai did the right thing or not. We all know wisdom that comes after the occurrence of an even is usually 20/20. Right now Hyundai is standing on three legs, the Grand i 10, the Elite i 20 and the Eon. The once strong selling Verna's architecture perhaps too fluidic so it is melting away. This means that Indian's still like to see Hyundai as a small car maker. Which is not bad really since India is a small car market and being successful there is more important than being successful in bigger car classes. Maybe should do a Maruti and get onto small cars and give the leader a decent chase. Otherwise, it will get overhauled by Honda.

I will not read any conclusions into Honda's numbers. Capacity constraints seem to dictate to Honda as to which product they will stuff down their dealers' throats, which month. Please do not write of the Mobilio or even the Brio. Honda becoming number two is just a matter of time.

Another case where we can be sure that the numbers tell us a story consistently is the Nissan Renault case. Badge engineering and choice of really awful names contributed to the products not taking off. I suspect that Renault is yet to sell its first batch of Pulses, Scalas and they must have made about a 100 Fluences that they will have in their inventory for a long time. While Renault itself is unpronounceable for most Indians especially the nouveau riche, the models being called Fluence (Flu-aunce) and Scala (Scah-lah) made things worse. Duster sold and still sells a bit because of the name.
If the Nano had baptisms of fire, the Datsun Go has had the same of ice. It started okay but controversy after controversy and the car is now at the bottom of the lake. In India, car manufacturers cannot afford to not give CD players in low end cars. Bluetooth and all that come in in higher spec cars and despite its stubborness even the mighty Honda finally had to concede a CD player in the City. The whole lets go hit the youth thing went all wrong for Datsun. And then the Max Mosley effect.

Tata's success with the Zest has to be seen over a period of time. This is what I have been saying right from the beginning. The first few months never set a trend. The Quanto began sales with over 5k units and the Estilo also had a similar beginning. The clearing of the Manza's production line will not push the Zest numbers because it is fundamentally unable to deliver due to inadequate number of AMTs from Magnati Marelli. The same problem is affecting the Celerio too. The Nano should be called the Yo-Yo (No Honey Singh please). If the next iteration with the AMT does not work, Tata has real problems. I still believe that the Nano with some proper attention will sell. Tata's abject failure is the dealer network who seem to employ salesman by paying them Rs. 800 per month.

Mahindra should not hope for an urban India because the more urbanised the country becomes the less its best seller will sell. Bolero, Scorpio and XUV 500, thats it. Usually, the longer Mahindra tests, the less that product sells. So I don't know about the future. I think it is time to draw curtains on their 2 wheelers operations anyway.

Toyota is an enigma. God knows what it will do. Sell the Innova and the Fortuner and feel happy, perhaps?

As far as the King is concerned, I refer here to Maruti, its success can be put down to two reasons. 1. Excellent planning and after sales service by Maruti and 2. Hopeless planning and terrible after sales service by the others.

Buy a Fiat for example and you will be wishing that you bought a Maruti. Incidentally what is Fiat doing in India? Maybe it wants to exhaust any little good will that it still has left before it shuts shop.

Last edited by sadsack : 9th January 2015 at 10:55.
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Old 9th January 2015, 12:24   #80
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Fiat should quit playing the numbers game. They ought to target a niche, get in bigger engines and targeting enthusiasts would get them similar numbers, without the additional marketing strain of trying to push their products all over. They have a 100 dealerships I guess and they sell 6-700 odd cars a month. That's about 6 cars per dealer on avg. I don't know how long the current setup is going to work.

I have a 2009 Grande Punto. It's a fabulous car no doubt, would have probably sold well if it was by some other manufacturer. But the stigma associated with Fiat remains more or less the same. For eg, the window motor on my car conked off and I have tried to source it from a lot of reputed auto spare shops in delhi and none of them had it in stock. Same with the reverse light. Fiat spares are not stocked because there just isn't any demand. The civic was discontinued in 2012 and I still manage to get any part I need for my civic.

Fiat is cushioned as of now, because of their engine sales pulling them through but that won't last long, especially with Suzuki putting a lot of hope and effort into developing engines in house.
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Old 9th January 2015, 14:23   #81
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Is it only me or anybody else shares the opinion that 50% market share in the swift/dzire segment is unsustainable.

With the competition getting into the sub 4m segment seriously?


I'm seeing people opting for Nissan Micra, VW polo, Punto in my small town. Mostly to differentiate themselves from a sea of Marutis. And the desire to upgrade to a 'premium' brand.

And foreign players finally getting serious about the Indian consumption story and setting up dealerships.

Everyone else is far behind Maruti. Maruti is now at its peak market share.

Will Tata /Mahindra rise up like Hyundai has done over the past 10 years?

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Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post

Now it looks like even in December'14 Maruti Omni is the 8th highest selling car in the market. What could be the reason. Is it because people at village and suburban areas still prefer Omni over other modern cars or something else.
It's popular among small business owners in cities for cargo duty and personal vehicle. Cheap taxi. Cheap ambulance. Cheap delivery van for courier companies. There's nothing like it in the market.

'Van' form factor is extremely popular in cities all over the world. It is extremely practical and frugal.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 9th January 2015 at 15:46. Reason: back to back posts
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Old 9th January 2015, 15:08   #82
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Dear Soumo

I have seen multiple threads supporting the Lodgy and how it may bring a smile to the Renault management faces/turn fortunes etc.


Competent people movers like Mobilio and Ertiga as competitors, Lodgy may not lodge anyone.

Well if only looks were the prime-mover for Sales then Wagon-R and Swift D-Zire would have found no buyers! No offence to any existing owners as i also owned Wagon-R and did not buy it for looks but for practicality.

Overall i am sure that in looks department there will be marginal changes made to the India Model than its other counterparts, same as we saw in Duster.
If you look what it has to offer, Space-Checked, Mileage-Checked, Reasonable to move in City and Highway-Checked. I dont think anyone buys an MUV for looks and if that was the case Mobilio would have out sold Ertiga.

However looks are Personal and would not like to elaborate further, but prefer to wait and watch market response once the product is launched.

Just think about this, Space and Comfort like Innova with a mileage and price like Ertiga / Mobilio and an A$$ which is not bad at all (I am a Renault Customer after owning Maruti and M&M); would the market ignore such a proposition ? I doubt!

Please refer the image which is uploaded on Renault India website and i don't think it looks dated more than an Innova.
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Last edited by soumobakshi : 9th January 2015 at 15:17.
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Old 9th January 2015, 15:35   #83
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by drsingh
It's popular among small business owners in cities for cargo duty and personal vehicle. Cheap taxi. Cheap ambulance. Cheap delivery van for courier companies. There's nothing like it in the market. 'Van' form factor is extremely popular in cities all over the world. It is extremely practical and frugal.
True. For someone looking at a cheap 8-seater, this is the ONLY option. The next option would cost atleast 3 times what this van costs. Very practical vehicle, like the WagonR, which explains the sales of both.
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Old 9th January 2015, 16:07   #84
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
And then what? We all buy from the Japs and Kors? Flimsy boxes delivering high mileage is not everyone's idea of a car. Ford and Fiat makes some nice cars, and some of us would swear by them.
+1 to that. I know those companies are struggling, but one has to keep in mind that there are people are particular about certain aspects of a car and would prefer them over just resale value and such. That's why I seriously hope they start selling more cars, so the risk of them running out of business will be less.
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Old 9th January 2015, 17:09   #85
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
Tata's success with the Zest has to be seen over a period of time. This is what I have been saying right from the beginning. The first few months never set a trend. The Quanto began sales with over 5k units and the Estilo also had a similar beginning.
Agree, with you here .
I still feel that the current numbers of the Zest
is what is going to be the average sales number for the Zest.
It will be sad to see such a VFM offering not getting mass acceptance.
Hope i am proven wrong.

Don't know what a buyer wants more at that price range.
So much for the resale value?
However Tata s should keep working hard(LAGE RAHO).
People perception can change over a period of time.

Personally i feel the Zest and the Bolt should have happened in 2012.
TATAs are running a good 2 year late than the competition.

All that aside, i really liked the Zest and would have bought one ,
if i was in the market for a CS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
The clearing of the Manza's production line will not push the Zest numbers because it is fundamentally unable to deliver due to inadequate number of AMTs from Magnati Marelli.
AMT supply constraint is the reason behind waiting periods - True
But even with AMT supply sorted out , i doubt the AMT XMS ZEST would have made a VERY BIG difference to the numbers.
(read VERY BIG difference as say 5000-6000 units a month i/o existing
2500-3500 units a month)

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Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
The Nano should be called the Yo-Yo (No Honey Singh please). If the next iteration with the AMT does not work, Tata has real problems. I still believe that the Nano with some proper attention will sell.
Proper attention and probably a complete revamp and a launch in new name ala a TATA PIXEL or NANO EUROPA .
But then they have been so slow and lethargic to make any such strategic changes, we really cant expect such a step from them.
This is were Hyundai, Honda , Mahindra have really outdone TATA lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
Tata's abject failure is the dealer network who seem to employ salesman by paying them Rs. 800 per month.
Somewhat true . More than their service centres and service advisors , their salesmen do look like a demotivated and a spent lot.

Last edited by madhu33 : 9th January 2015 at 17:17.
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Old 9th January 2015, 18:53   #86
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by HYDRAVI View Post
Top 20 include Maruthi's 10. Indian car means maruthi car. Very impressive.
Maruti has 10 cars (I am excluding Gypsy) in market currently and all of them are in top 20
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Old 12th January 2015, 14:30   #87
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

The day Tata differentiates it's passenger segment from it's commerical / taxi segment, is the day it will see success.

Hyundai will be plain arrogant to stop the Santro. Even today, for most people who give out random advice to their relatives, their pure success is because of this vehicle. "Uncle, we want a car with good mileage and can carry family" "Oh, get the Santro".. "Uncle, we need something that is easy to drive" "get the Santro, beta". One answer solves many questions / concerns.

I am looking to see how the Jazz will compete with the i20. That would be the pitched battle in 2015 if it happens.
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Old 12th January 2015, 15:33   #88
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
The day Tata differentiates it's passenger segment from it's commerical / taxi segment, is the day it will see success.

Hyundai will be plain arrogant to stop the Santro. Even today, for most people who give out random advice to their relatives, their pure success is because of this vehicle. "Uncle, we want a car with good mileage and can carry family" "Oh, get the Santro".. "Uncle, we need something that is easy to drive" "get the Santro, beta". One answer solves many questions / concerns.

I am looking to see how the Jazz will compete with the i20. That would be the pitched battle in 2015 if it happens.
Isn't the Santro discontinued by Hyundai already?

Honda Jazz is a great wait for the whole industry as to what would be the actual engine options and the pricing for the petrol and diesel engines versus the competition.
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Old 12th January 2015, 16:56   #89
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
General Motors & Ford came to India before Hyundai did. What happened to them? Even a noob like Renault is outselling them.


Very well said! Quoting from personal experience -
1. I used to own a Hyundai Getz (2005-2012) - Excellent car that suited my needs then but disappointing service (especially Kun Hyundai in Ambattur, Chennai)
2. Bought a Maruti Ertiga in 2012 and the ownership experience so far has been very good. I am happy with the after sales service by Maruti dealers (Friendly Motors, Mysuru and Mandovi Motors, Bengaluru).

In my view, this overall satisfaction goes a long way. To me (and possibly others too), the peace of mind that comes with knowing that there is an authorized service centre / dealer who will take care of my car in the event that it breaks down is something that scores over many other aspects. Maruti (along with their dealers/service centres) seems to be providing this better than others.
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Old 12th January 2015, 17:02   #90
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Default Re: December 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

With this new AMT buzz , I would like to really see what will happen when the clutch starts wearing out . Also I would wait to see if AMT's eat through more clutches than regular manuals . If this is the case then the future of AMT's may not be all that rosy , after all an automatic is still the real deal when it comes to truly trouble free and jerk free driving .

Sorry if OT , but I feel it applies to some of the cars mentioned here .
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