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Old 27th January 2015, 16:54   #136
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Now we will see how the 'Hot Hatch Starved' population jump up and down on seeing this and then go buy an i20 Elite.
Very Well said!

But the Hot Hatch Starved' population will have some other grouse to find against fiat: No Twin Air and no 1.6MJD

There is no satisfying the enthusiasts eh?
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Old 27th January 2015, 18:27   #137
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I'm eagerly waiting for the launch and TBHP official review. I hope the new Punto TJet's transmission is mated properly with the right gear ratios. I think this is the only chink in the Punto's armor (for the current models). Also wish this engine is available in lower trims with Airbags and ABS optional.
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Old 27th January 2015, 18:45   #138
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Here are my two cents on the imminent launch of the punto t jet. I am glad that it is happening. The fact that it is happening itself is a milestone in our drab diesel filled market. I want it to be a success and I want people to buy them and enjoy them so that once and for all our people will demand much more from our manufacturers other than just mileage.

Coming to the existing Punto's case. Now Fiat afficianados will like to tell you that they were the true enthusiasts putting down their money for the sake of "sheer driving pleasure" while the rest followed the herd. I am sorry but this argument cannot be justified. Because the punto has two very big flaws that would put off an enthusiast. The engine and of course the gearbox. These two things dominate the driving experience and on both these counts the Punto falls flat on its face. Yes its steering and suspension are unparalleled but then again as I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first, handling guys second. Maybe Fiat fans are the other way around.

Fiat punto was launched in 2009 and they had enough and more time to sort out these two issues. But have they done it? Nope. The gearbox is still utter crap and till now no exciting engines on offer. Actually the only thing that they have done is ruin the car a little bit by jacking up the ride height to the point of it looking ridiculous. 6 years and in its second generation, that's all they could do. Now whose fault is that? The poor car shoppers?

All I am saying is that, combined with these two problems and the iffy A.S.S perception, there are valid reasons why one might not choose to buy the Punto. Just because they do so, doesn't mean they aren't true car enthusiasts. I have been in that situation and now I am with a GT TDI (God help me). In conclusion the Punto, till now is a car far from being the perfect enthusiast's hatch back. It has with it bucket loads of potential, but all of it is left unused by the company which makes it. So if anybody wants to blame anyone for low sales of the punto, they can start pointing fingers at Fiat first rather than buyers. All we can do now is pray that Fiat makes an effort to set things straight with the Punto T-jet and not end up with another missed opportunity.
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Old 27th January 2015, 20:49   #139
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I'm already thinking of a t-jet Punto remapped to 140+BHP Hope it comes with a capable gearbox and all 4 discs, I'll have a mini Abarth in my hands. Also too late, but I would have preferred the t-jet in the Grande Punto(more sporty), not a big fan of the new Punto Evo.
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Old 27th January 2015, 22:58   #140
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by jetti View Post
I'm eagerly waiting for the launch and TBHP official review. I hope the new Punto TJet's transmission is mated properly with the right gear ratios. I think this is the only chink in the Punto's armor (for the current models).
In Linea T-jet review, GTO had given positive feedback on the gear ratios. In all likelihood, Fiat won't go wrong with Punto T-jet too.

Quote:
Also wish this engine is available in lower trims with Airbags and ABS optional.
Seriously?! I am hoping that they sell Punto T-jet with not only ABS and airbags, but ESP too, for all the power going only to the front wheels (especially with ECU remaps, even though Fiat is not responsible for it). I won't buy one though, simply because there is no automatic. I am an enthusiast alright, but with multiple injuries in my left ankle which have forced me to reduce driving my existing car. I am planning to go for the next best thing: Polo GT TSI. I don't expect miracles to happen. That is, I don't expect Fiat to launch Punto T-jet even with AMT, leave alone DDCT.

Last edited by rohanjf : 27th January 2015 at 23:02.
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Old 27th January 2015, 23:42   #141
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Now Fiat afficianados will like to tell you that they were the true enthusiasts putting down their money for the sake of "sheer driving pleasure" while the rest followed the herd.
Yes, FIAT owners do come and say that they bought the car to enjoy the sheer driving pleasure - and it might include the awesome steering, excellent brakes, suspension etc. Reviews across auto mags and forums have vouched for it. Herd mentality is there with consumers in general. But again, we should not generalize it on people who buy Polos and Ventos - I agree.

Quote:
Yes its steering and suspension are unparalleled but then again as I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first, handling guys second. Maybe Fiat fans are the other way around.
Really??? You might say the "handling" and "ride" is OK, considering the engine performance of TDIs over Multijets in India (forget about TSIs - we know what is it with Tjets - no arguments on that please). FIAT owners might be saying it the other way - "It is an OK engine in City, but excellent on highways and corners. Handling and ride is second to none." - you can still boast and preserve your smile- good for you.

Quote:
The gearbox is still utter crap and till now no exciting engines on offer.
- now that is too rude. What is then wrong if I say the handling sucks big time when it comes to Polo?! - too rude?

Quote:
All I am saying is that, combined with these two problems and the iffy A.S.S perception, there are valid reasons why one might not choose to buy the Punto.
How is VW better than FIAT here? And if so how much better?!

Quote:
Just because they do so, doesn't mean they aren't true car enthusiasts.
What to say else when someone comes and comments criticizing FIAT even on a humble attempt - you call it late (FIAT fans too, and everyone too - we know), and you say the car is still worth nothing and keeps giving whole new meaning to what one means by being an enthusiast? I guess we have Mods Note already to limit the discussion to just the Tjet and not sure why still !!! Mods are to open to remove my post.
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Old 28th January 2015, 05:00   #142
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Dear Mr. True Enthusiast,
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Here are my two cents on the imminent launch of the punto t-jet.
Welcome to the thread. That sounds like a promising read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Here are my two cents on the imminent launch of the punto t-jet. I am glad that it is happening. The fact that it is happening itself is a milestone in our drab diesel filled market. I want it to be a success and I want people to buy them and enjoy them so that once and for all our people will demand much more from our manufacturers other than just mileage.

...

All we can do now is pray that Fiat makes an effort to set things straight with the Punto T-jet and not end up with another missed opportunity.
Wait a second - wasn't this supposed to be your 2-cents on the Punto TJet? Was a bit disappointed to read the same rant and bashing again. But anyways - never mind.

Got to hand it to you though - its cleverly packaged with some 'hope' on Punto Tjet in the beginning and some 'prayers' on Punto Tjet at the end. Cheating the mods eh?
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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Fiat afficianados
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Just because they do so, doesn't mean they aren't true car enthusiasts.
So, those who own FIAT cars are "false enthusiasts" and "FIAT aficionados".

And as per your opinion - The cars in themselves suffer from poor engines, poor gearboxes, poor service support, does not offer driving pleasure, falls flat on its face in terms of the most important driving parameters etc. So why do you think they bought these cars? Or are you still trying to figure a name for this phenomenon?

Doesn't the decline in the number of sales itself show that there is nothing called as a FIAT aficionado? Paying hard earned money on a product takes a lot of conviction - and I dont think anyone in this forum would plonk their money on a FIAT just because they admire the brand. The declining sales show that the so called probable future aficionados migrated to other choices - like the GT TDi.

GT TDi was launched in October 2013. Can you show how many of us false enthusiasts bought our cars after the GT TDI launch? GT twins do present a impressive package, and everyone in the forum has whole heatedly accepted it as the best enthusiast car available in the market now. But can you show which car, according to you, would have been a true enthusiast's choice before the launch of the GT?

Its quite a narrow minded view though - that only cars with lot of engine power makes for an enthusiast's car. Else we would be having the Verna in the 2014 thread rather than the Fiesta. I see one Mr. Colin McRae mentioned in your signature. Brilliant in car rallies eh? I wonder if you would ever have heard his name also if he was only an engine guy, rather than a handling guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Now Fiat afficianados will like to tell you that they were the true enthusiasts putting down their money for the sake of "sheer driving pleasure" while the rest followed the herd. I am sorry but this argument cannot be justified. Because the punto has two very big flaws that would put off an enthusiast. The engine and of course the gearbox. These two things dominate the driving experience and on both these counts the Punto falls flat on its face. Yes its steering and suspension are unparalleled but then again as I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first, handling guys second. Maybe Fiat fans are the other way around.
Punto TJet mostly would not have either of the weakness you have mentioned above. The engine is capable enough to remove the GT twins from the current title. With 113bhp and 207 Nm torque - it easily betters the GT TSi figures of 104 bhp and 175 Nm torque, or even the GT TDi that churns out 105hp and 250 Nm torque, but limited by the narrow powerband of a diesel. The main advantage for the TSi will remain its super DSG gearbox, but then - I expect the Punto TJet to be priced significantly lesser as well.

As regards the gearbox - yes the shifts are rubbery compared to the Polo (Which remains the segment benchmark). However - the ratios are well sorted in the TJet (If its carried forward from the Linea TJet) and not messed up like the diesels in the FIAT range. Engine guys and handling guys both can have their party.

So, if at all FIAT decides to wake up from its slumber and launch the TJet with the same tune and gear ratios of the Linea - please dont be disappointed in having to hand over that crown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
doesn't mean they aren't true car enthusiasts. I have been in that situation and now I am with a GT TDI
Mind if I ask one question though?

Your ownership thread lists 5 reasons you went for the GT TDi, when you upgraded from the Fabia HTP petrol that got ruined while trying modifications (For others to understand what loses mean in the below qoute).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Initially I only wanted an el cheapo base 1.2 petrol so as to cut back on my losses or to be precise my Dad's losses but surprisingly my Dad was against it. He told me that whatever happened has happened. He told me to forget the losses and pick the one which I really wanted.

After that there was no looking back. It was the GT TDI all the way.

I decided to go for the GT TDI for the following reasons :
a) No Manual Gearbox even as an option
b) Concerns over the DSG
c) The GT TDI is just Rs.10,000 more expensive
d) Significantly better mileage
e) No 6 month waiting periods
I do see price, mileage of a diesel engine and concerns over reliability of a DSG gearbox and dad's willingness to pay money as the factors in choosing a GT TDi. I would really like to know which among these factors contribute to being an 'engine guy'.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:22   #143
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

The reality is - the brand perception of FIAT is miles behind Maruti/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota etc. SO, unless they do something about that, all their launches is going to be market duds.

One way to correct that would be to launch something which has a first-mover advantage..like Renault did with the Duster and capture the imagination of the market. Sadly, launching a hatchback will not help in that regard.

I know why people don't like Fiat..and some of the reasons are indeed true. I was very keen to buy the Punto but came back disappointed after the test drive...bad petrol engines (performance and FE - Tjet should address this), bad interiors and some parts seemed like falling off, bad gearbox, less legroom, huge turning radius etc etc. The positives were tank-like build quality, the sorted ride and handling and the Italian looks. Plus, speaking with couple of Punto/Linea owners didn't give me confidence as they had some problem or the other for which they had to visit the service center quite a few times (most cases things were resolved though). But, for someone who gives niggle-free ownership experience as the top priority, it is not acceptable.

So, in the end, if someone thinks with the mind (FE, realiabilty, good A.S.S etc) he will stay away from Punto whether its a T-jet or not.. there are so many good options in the market today.

For a handful of enthusiasts, the T-jet Punto will make a strong case no doubt. The key for Fiat will be if this Punto can snatch some numbers from the Polo TSI (particularly, since it's only offered with DSG and pretty costly). I am not sure how many the TSI sells per month. But, again, the Punto T-jet will lose out to the TSi in terms of brand perception, inetrior quality/fit-finish etc. But, there are some enthusiasts who will look past those and go for the T-jet

Last edited by adimicra : 28th January 2015 at 08:23.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:32   #144
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

So, those who own FIAT cars are "false enthusiasts" and "FIAT aficionados".
Nope, those who own Fiat are hard core enthusiasts, waaaay too hardcore than it is needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
GT TDi was launched in October 2013. Can you show how many of us false enthusiasts bought our cars after the GT TDI launch? GT twins do present a impressive package, and everyone in the forum has whole heatedly accepted it as the best enthusiast car available in the market now. But can you show which car, according to you, would have been a true enthusiast's choice before the launch of the GT?
You must realize one thing CD. These are just normal hatchbacks. We are not in some super track day special hatchback market. We are not shopping for a Renaultsport or a Mugen honda. Most of the people have just 9 lakhs in their arsenal and want a cracking car and the best value for their money at the same time.

When we were looking for a car the options were as follows:
The top of the line Punto sports- 8.7 lakhs OTR.(new stock)
Hyundai i20 sportz- 8.05 lakhs OTR
Polo GT TDI- 9.05 lakhs OTR (free insurance)

Now the punto has the best sorted dynamics of the three. Yes I know that. But it also has the worst drivetrain. A regular guy, a car lover who is going to buy his only car, if he test drives all three the results can swing in anyway depending on the mindset of the buyer. BUT as far as I have seen the most probable thing he is going to do is praise the punto and then not buy it.

Think about it, how many car buyers are out there who is going to go canyon carving in ghats, road tripping, take corners at insane speeds, do that sort of stuff? Things that would make him exploit and enjoy the punto's true strengths? Chances are, this being India, roads like that don't even exist where the poor chap lives. Majority of his driving would be on the highway between 40-120. Exactly the sort of thing in which the Punto is bad at. Only once in a new moon would he be able to do that joy ride that he actually wants to do. [b]So are you guys going to blame this guy, say he is not a true enthusiast, ridicule at him, for actually using his head and getting the i20? Truth is he is no less an enthusiast than you guys, but he spent his hard earned money in a manner that he thinks works best for him. If fiat were smart enough, they would have realized this and would have done something about it. But they didn't, so people brought something else. Tell me who is to be blamed here?

All I am saying is that till now there are valid reasons for a person not to buy a punto. Just like there are valid reasons not to buy an i20 or a polo or a swift. The Punto is not a perfect car having dismal numbers just because of FIAT's image. The car too has some flaws in it. That is all what I meant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Its quite a narrow minded view though - that only cars with lot of engine power makes for an enthusiast's car. Else we would be having the Verna in the 2014 thread rather than the Fiesta. I see one Mr. Colin McRae mentioned in your signature. Brilliant in car rallies eh? I wonder if you would ever have heard his name also if he was only an engine guy, rather than a handling guy.
You don't have to be a racing car driver or drive a racing car to become a fan of one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
As regards the gearbox - yes the shifts are rubbery compared to the Polo (Which remains the segment benchmark). However - the ratios are well sorted in the TJet (If its carried forward from the Linea TJet) and not messed up like the diesels in the FIAT range. Engine guys and handling guys both can have their party.
See that's exactly what I am saying. Punto till now was in desparate need of a better powertrain. With the arrival of the T-jet that will be sorted out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So, if at all FIAT decides to wake up from its slumber and launch the TJet with the same tune and gear ratios of the Linea - please dont be disappointed in having to hand over that crown.
No doubt about it. We almost were in the process of booking a 90 hp with Hyson Fiat despite the 90 hp being a slow car. We weren't even thinking about buying a VW after the skoda experience. But one short test drive of the GT was enough.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Mind if I ask one question though?

Your ownership thread lists 5 reasons you went for the GT TDi, when you upgraded from the Fabia HTP petrol that got ruined while trying modifications (For others to understand what loses mean in the below qoute).


I do see price, mileage of a diesel engine and concerns over reliability of a DSG gearbox and dad's willingness to pay money as the factors in choosing a GT TDi. I would really like to know which among these factors contribute to being an 'engine guy'.
Being an engine guy is the sole reason why I even ended up at that predicament of whether to choose between a GT TSI or a GT TDI. Otherwise I would have brought a Punto.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:47   #145
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Finally good news for all fiat enthusiasts and lovers who are still driving palios waiting for the right upgrade.

Pretty late though. But falling petrol prices are something to cheer about.

I hope it will bring some smilies on the enthusiasts face.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:57   #146
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I may have my preferences in terms of which car looks nice or which one drives better but I try not to reflect them in the posts because this website in my opinion is not to say that one car is absolutely better than the other. Its about which car suits a particular taste of an individual.

Elite i20 should not even be mentioned in this thread. It may have good sales due to the fact that it is practical, spacious and has a better service base. It isn't an enthusiasts car so belittling it in an enthusiast section is unfair. Hyundais of before like the Getz & 1st gen Verna were definitely great handlers, but then the company took a path of making squishy soft suspensions more for comfort (something which I don't like either).

Now coming to the great VW vs Fiat debate, I've not excessively supported either brand because both have their drawbacks. Because of this I can give my most honest opinion of both cars i.e Polo & Punto.

1) Suspension : Punto wins this, even if the ride height is taller the way it takes potholes and rough patches is to be seen. Hope the TJet variant has lower ride height.
2) Steering : Punto demolishes Polo in this. The tuning and feedback is from another level.
3) Gearbox : If only Fiat with so much speciality attended to its rubbery vague gearbox. Polo is far better.
3) Engine : As of now its Polo due to better weight-power ratio. But Punto's TJet and 1.4 Petrol will be on par in most conditions.
4) Practicality/technology : Gotta give this to Fiat, they came out with tech back in 2009 which Polo only now incorporated. Space-wise its a tight contest so lets call it draw.
5) Build : Many may call it a draw but I see a clear winner - Fiat.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:57   #147
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

FIAT India vendor is tooling up for a new GBS. Monthly volume is upwards of 15,000 with most of it going to South America (existing market) and PRC which will be a new market.
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:26   #148
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

The Punto TJet launch is still a rumour. We have seen in the past how speculations about Fiat launches have panned out. Moreover, inspite of their best efforts, each of Fiat’s recent launches has been a sales dud and it doesn’t take much to foresee how the mass market is going to respond to this speculated launch. Perhaps anything with a Fiat badge will always struggle to find takers. Or perhaps it would be wise to launch cars under the Chrysler badge and see how the market responds, in which case, the service quality cannot afford to remain as pathetic as it is right now.

Last edited by riturajsharma19 : 28th January 2015 at 09:36.
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:28   #149
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
The reality is - the brand perception of FIAT is miles behind Maruti/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota etc. SO, unless they do something about that, all their launches is going to be market duds.
True about brand perception, and I guess even the Fiat think-tank are smart enough to know of this perception. But many of the comments on this thread is based on the assumption that Fiat is making this move to take on the likes on Swift or i20, which in my opinion is wrong. Even with the Punto T-Jet, they may not be able to capture even 1% of the market share from the Far-eastern giants. But with the launch of Polo GT twins, there is a very positive movement in the expensive (and slightly more powerful) hatchback space. If tomorrow Honda launches the Jazz with a 1.5 ivtec, the idea should be the same – cash into this segment, rather than chase the mass-market space. It’s indeed a wise move IMO.
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Old 28th January 2015, 10:29   #150
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Yes its steering and suspension are unparalleled but then again as I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first, handling guys second. Maybe Fiat fans are the other way around.
There are some guys like me who get no pleasure in hearing the engine grunt. But I get immense pleasure in throwing the car around in corners and seeing it behave like I command.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Fiat punto was launched in 2009 and they had enough and more time to sort out these two issues. But have they done it? Nope. The gearbox is still utter crap and till now no exciting engines on offer. Actually the only thing that they have done is ruin the car a little bit by jacking up the ride height to the point of it looking ridiculous. 6 years and in its second generation, that's all they could do. Now whose fault is that? The poor car shoppers?
I agree with it. I used to wonder what takes Fiat take so much time to come up with something, however big or small it is. But I believe this is not the right time to talk about it because what we are seeing now is good. Why rake up the past unnecessarily?
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