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Old 28th January 2015, 10:49   #151
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I think we should stop using the term 'faulty gearbox' and some such stuff I see in recent replies. There is absolutely no fault in either the gearbox or the gear ratios in the T-Jet (Linea), so let us not mislead readers with these loosely used terms. Also, it would help not to bring in the MultiJet drivetrain's faults in this thread, it is completely irrelevant and ends up causing more confusion for viewers.

The shifting feel is rubbery and slightly longer throw in Fiats and that's about it, but that cannot be called a faulty gearbox! Just like the long clutch travel, this is yet another (I could almost call it) ergonomic / enthusiast preference issue rather than a mechanical fault. Yes they have been lethargic in bringing out a better shorter throw, precise shifter over the past few years and still lag way behind the Polo and the Swift in this regard. However, I don't think this alone (rubbery shifting feel) will be a dealbreaker for this car's customers. It is just something the driver gets used to after a while.

Last edited by KarthikK : 28th January 2015 at 10:54. Reason: corrected a typo :)
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Old 28th January 2015, 12:09   #152
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
So are you guys going to blame this guy, say he is not a true enthusiast, ridicule at him, for actually using his head and getting the i20?
So thats the main topic!

Your point was that i20 customers are also enthusiasts! Infact, even classic cars / Ambassador/ Jeep customers can also be enthusiasts! All that matters is the passion they have for the car. In that vein - I do agree.
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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Now Fiat afficianados will like to tell you that they were the true enthusiasts putting down their money for the sake of "sheer driving pleasure" while the rest followed the herd. I am sorry but this argument cannot be justified.

I said most enthusiasts are engine guys first, handling guys second. Maybe Fiat fans are the other way around.
The earlier post was all about how those who choose the FIAT are not true enthusiasts because of poor drive train choices. Those two (1. i20 customers are enthusiats 2. FIAT customers are not true enthusiasts) are two different things, dont you think?

I dont think any FIAT owner here claims that they are the ONLY true enthusiasts here. If somebody does an objective evaluation and moves on to the other brands - they are not to be blamed. There are people who have bought the Elite only for the looks, and again - that is their preference. It is only for the fault of FIAT that they lose a customer there.

Herd mentality doesn't refer to those people. It only implies to those who went with the popular choices just because everyone else has them - and they would have blind reasons for this. Most people don't even visit multiple showrooms for evaluating their purchases, even if they might be members / readers of communities like team-bhp.

You've got to admit though - that post from avishar in the first page was epic. 108 likes as of now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Punto till now was in desparate need of a better powertrain. With the arrival of the T-jet that will be sorted out.
It wont be sorted out. Now see the demand shifting towards automatics and 1.6 diesels. End result might not vary too much from where it started.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 28th January 2015 at 12:21.
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Old 28th January 2015, 13:02   #153
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

So I'm going to come clean and say that the Punto T-Jet scoop has gotten me very excited all of a sudden. Up until now, I had my eyes set on a Polo GT TSI, but the slightly high price-tag kept me away for a little longer than I'd like to admit.

Now the last time I'd driven a Punto was when my senior had bought one nearly 4 years ago. It was a white Punto 90 MJD. The Blue & Me gizmo blew me away and the overall design had me drooling quite a bit.

I hadn't given the new Evo a close look and since I had some spare time after ages, I'd decided to pop over to the Fiat Cafe near Domlur (Intermediate Ring Road)

The over-enthusiastic sales-rep brought out a battered white Punto Evo for a TD. It happened to be the 75 MJD. Now obviously, I know that the drive-train and running-gear will be different and we can expect a better setup for the T-Jet, so my observations may be considered as reference points and nothing more.

The first thing I noticed was how heavy the doors were. Absolutely fantastic! The car is built like a vault and I love it! I slipped into the interior and the seats were super comfy and held me in all the right places. The interior seemed nice. A large portion of the dash was covered in soft-touch material. The instrumentation console was beautiful and the interior exudes more class than the earlier one. Some of the plastics were hard-wearing and that's no issue really, as long as they don't come-off clean. I wasn't particularly happy with the overall ergonomics. The power-window and mirror adjustment switches were not positioned correctly and the pedals felt like they were off-set. I wasn't 'at home' even though the seats were very comfortable and the driving-position was just right.

Pulling away, the first thing I noticed was the super long clutch travel. The damn knee was nearly at chest level The steering was lovely to hold and use. The gearbox was poor. The throw was long and the shift-action felt clumsy. But as I approached the first corner on the IIR, I downshifted and yanked the wheel while feeding in quite a bit of throttle. Absolutely no fuss whatsoever! It held its line and went through the corner, no drama! The steering was fantastic! As the road straightened, I gave it some more throttle and rowed through the gears. The straight line stability on the IIR - that's riddled with undulations - left me in awe, wheezy 1.3 MJD and poor gearbox notwithstanding. I haven't driven too many cars with such good dynamics, and I drive an Octavia 1.8 TSI in the weekends! It's a phenomenal ride/handling package, the Punto. And the brakes, damn! The stopping power on the disc-drum combo was seriously impressive. I can only imagine what the all-disc setup would be like!

Now I can live with the poor FE of the T-Jet, the poor resale value and other minor niggles, but the long clutch-travel and gearbox may just be a deal-breaker for me. This is an 'enthusiasts-car' after all and what good is an enthusiast's car if it does not have a sorted gearbox!?

Now I'd heard that I may get the Punto Evo T-Jet for under 9 lakhs on the road. But the Fiat Cafe is quoting an unreasonable 8.95 lakhs for the Punto Evo 1.4 NA petrol Emotion variant. The Fiat Punto Evo Diesel (90) Emotion is 9.37! I'm sure I can manage to squeeze some good discounts on these prices but that left me wondering what the T-Jet would be priced like. If it's going to be close to 10 lakhs, I'm not going to be impressed.

But you know what, I totally get the appeal of the Punto. It's got flair. It's got style. It's a beautifully designed car and it's a dynamically brilliant package. It has great potential to be a proper enthusiast's car. No car is without fault, after all!

I'm going to call for a Linea T-Jet for a refresher TD very soon!
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Old 28th January 2015, 13:27   #154
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Now I'd heard that I may get the Punto Evo T-Jet for under 9 lakhs on the road. But the Fiat Cafe is quoting an unreasonable 8.95 lakhs for the Punto Evo 1.4 NA petrol Emotion variant. The Fiat Punto Evo Diesel (90) Emotion is 9.37! I'm sure I can manage to squeeze some good discounts on these prices but that left me wondering what the T-Jet would be priced like. If it's going to be close to 10 lakhs, I'm not going to be impressed.
  • 1.4 NA petrol falls in the same tax slab as the T-Jet, although it is nowhere as competent! 6.71 lakh ex-showroom is 8.95 OTR? This is one engine that never made sense, specially after the tax slabs were defined at 1.2 litres.
  • There is already a difference of 1.5 lakhs ex-showroom between the 1.2 dynamic and the 1.4 emotion - mainly due to the tax slab, whereas the diesel dynamic and emotion differs only by around 60k.
  • The price difference between a 1.4 TJet and the 1.3 90hp MJD in the Linea is around 70k ex-showroom. It would however be lesser in the Punto Evo due to the tax structure, however it should still be cheaper than the diesel variant.
  • There isn't too much of a difference in manufacturing costs between a TJet and the FIRE engine. The high price tags of the first generation T-Jets was due to minimal localisation. If you see the prices of the new Linea, it never went up by much when the entire range was given the TJet, replacing the NA petrol.

Name:  Price List.jpg
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Source - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ve-review.html (The 2014 Fiat Linea Facelift - Test Drive & Review)

That said - The maximum I would pay is 9.38 lakh OTR. Same level as the 90hp diesel and a lakh less than the GT TSi. Not a penny more.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 28th January 2015 at 13:40.
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Old 28th January 2015, 13:41   #155
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The over-enthusiastic sales-rep brought out a battered white Punto Evo for a TD.
I don't believe this. This happening at a flagship dealer. Common Fiat. This is where it starts to go wrong. When a customer goes shopping for a new car and asks for a drive, you give that customer the best car from the lot. A battered car is a sure shot way to loose a customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
It happened to be the 75 MJD.
I've had more fun behind the wheel of the 75bhp tune over the 90bhp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
the Punto Evo 1.4 NA petrol Emotion variant.
I did not know the Evo had a top spec petrol variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
If it's going to be close to 10 lakhs, I'm not going to be impressed
The Linea T Jet is supposed to be cheaper than the car that was sold 3 years ago which means a T Jet should come to around 10lac on road, excluding discounts. An Evo T Jet has to be cheaper. Will have to wait and see if they do some restructuring on the price of the petrol variants once the car rolls out.
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Old 28th January 2015, 14:13   #156
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I don't believe this. This happening at a flagship dealer. Common Fiat. This is where it starts to go wrong. When a customer goes shopping for a new car and asks for a drive, you give that customer the best car from the lot. A battered car is a sure shot way to loose a customer.
Why, it shouldn't matter as long the car drives the way it should and there's a display car for the visual appeal.
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Old 28th January 2015, 14:39   #157
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
Why, it shouldn't matter as long the car drives the way it should and there's a display car for the visual appeal.
This may not apply as much to companies like Suzuki, Honda and Hyundai. Fiat India is struggling to sell cars and the last thing you want is offer a battered car to a customer. It could be fine mechanically. You are trying to win the customer, you want his/her business. The cosmetic appeal is important. Its the first thing you see. I don't want my test drive car to be dirty on the outside or inside. It should be spotless, like a new car. I don't want stuff broken or half working on the inside either. That is the way I see it when it comes to selling any car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
A simple remap takes the T-Jet to 145+BHP.
What is the torque output for the said tune?

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 28th January 2015 at 14:49.
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Old 28th January 2015, 14:41   #158
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

This is a great time for enthusiasts in India - the GT Twins first, the Punto T-Jet now and rumours of a true VW GTi to come! But you can't help but wonder if some of the comments here would be more apt on a thread titled 'Fiat will never sell the T-Jet here in India again'.
Come on guys, how is this anything but good news for us? We are an enthusiasts' forum aren't we? Any such launch should be good news for us. Yes, Fiat was late launching it, yes it won't sell much, yes Fiat might not have a consistent a.s.s, yes the Fiat India strategy is a mystery. But who cares! I, as an enthusiast, have just been offered a new, super fun hatchback option to pick from. This, along with the GT Twins, makes people like me sit up and notice hatchbacks again and drool over them.
A simple remap takes the T-Jet to 145+BHP. When was the last time a hatchback in India ran a BHP figure like that? And had the handling package to fully exploit it to boot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
So I'm going to come clean and say that the Punto T-Jet scoop has gotten me very excited all of a sudden.

I'm going to call for a Linea T-Jet for a refresher TD very soon!
If you are going to come all the way to the IRR FIAT Cafe for a T-jet TD, PM me instead - and I would be happy to let you take a longer run of my remapped Linea T-Jet. I work next doors to the Fiat Cafe there.

And I will offer no comments, either positive or negative, till you drive it yourself. The T-jet needs no selling. Just drive it the way it's meant to be and we'll talk post that
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Old 28th January 2015, 14:54   #159
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
What is the torque output for the said tune?
AFAIK, 300Nm
More than even a stock GT TDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
If you are going to come all the way to the IRR FIAT Cafe for a T-jet TD, PM me instead - and I would be happy to let you take a longer run of my remapped Linea T-Jet. I work next doors to the Fiat Cafe there.
OT I remember reading your wonderful report of remapped Ford Fiesta. Didn't know you had a Linea T-Jet, that too remapped. Have you written a report on your remap?

Last edited by theredliner : 28th January 2015 at 15:00.
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Old 28th January 2015, 15:13   #160
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Now I'd heard that I may get the Punto Evo T-Jet for under 9 lakhs on the road. But the Fiat Cafe is quoting an unreasonable 8.95 lakhs for the Punto Evo 1.4 NA petrol Emotion variant. The Fiat Punto Evo Diesel (90) Emotion is 9.37! I'm sure I can manage to squeeze some good discounts on these prices but that left me wondering what the T-Jet would be priced like. If it's going to be close to 10 lakhs, I'm not going to be impressed.
Somehow with all the bloodbath happening on this thread, the real nugget is gets buried deeper and deeper - is the launch confirmed?

If yes were the Fiat Caffe folks able to confirm when the likely launch date could be?

Cant wait for them to launch this beautiful package that am sure it would be. I dont know if they can keep the Blr OTR to around 8.5 (with the inevitable discounts, of course!) that will be a cracker of a deal
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Old 28th January 2015, 15:16   #161
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
AFAIK, 300Nm
More than even a stock GT TDI
Forget the GT TDi - thats more torque from a 1.4 petrol than the 2.2L Scorpio MHawk. Are you sure about these figures? Anyone who has done a dyno run? I've heard of the 140+ bhp figures from the remap, but never noticed the torque figures.
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Old 28th January 2015, 15:23   #162
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
AFAIK, 300Nm
More than even a stock GT TDI
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Forget the GT TDi - thats more torque from a 1.4 petrol than the 2.2L Scorpio MHawk. Are you sure about these figures? Anyone who has done a dyno run? I've heard of the 140+ bhp figures from the remap, but never noticed the torque figures.
No, the torque output goes to 250NM on this remap. The main advantage being better gains at low rpms and lesser lag. Not sure if there are other maps which bump it as high as 300NM though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
OT I remember reading your wonderful report of remapped Ford Fiesta. Didn't know you had a Linea T-Jet, that too remapped. Have you written a report on your remap?
No mate, never penned down anything on the T-Jet. The Fiesta is still going strong though and its trouble free remap running experience made me do the same on the T-jet as well.
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Old 28th January 2015, 15:27   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Forget the GT TDi - thats more torque from a 1.4 petrol than the 2.2L Scorpio MHawk. Are you sure about these figures? Anyone who has done a dyno run? I've heard of the 140+ bhp figures from the remap, but never noticed the torque figures.

Exactly were my thoughts, For a 1.4 turbo petrol 300NM from a stock turbo is too much. The stock 1.8 laura tsi offers 250NM. So a remapped 1.4 tjet Can easily give us 240-255NM. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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Old 28th January 2015, 15:35   #164
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Forget the GT TDi - thats more torque from a 1.4 petrol than the 2.2L Scorpio MHawk. Are you sure about these figures? Anyone who has done a dyno run? I've heard of the 140+ bhp figures from the remap, but never noticed the torque figures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93 View Post
Exactly were my thoughts, For a 1.4 turbo petrol 300NM from a stock turbo is too much. The stock 1.8 laura tsi offers 250NM. So a remapped 1.4 tjet Can easily give us 240-255NM. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I had read somewhere that Kiirus remap offers 300Nm torque. I guess that was wrong info. With what Niranjan has said, it sort of confirms that my info was wrong. Sorry for all the confusion.
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Old 28th January 2015, 16:44   #165
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
AFAIK, 300Nm
More than even a stock GT TDI
For the 114BHP 1.4 T-Jet tuning outfits in Europe has the remapped BHP and torque rating in the range of 140BHP and 245Nm respectively, give or take a few. Still an awesome figure for a hatch. The question is in India will it run on regular Petrol or will it need high octane Petrol to obtain these figures? Does this motor have a knock sensor?
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