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Old 28th January 2015, 18:50   #166
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Having owned 1.6 GT TDI and driven over 10k kms, I can only imagine what a Punto T-Jet will feel like !!

The reason:

- Punto in its OEM avatar has all the platform in place for a hot hatch. Now with 1.4 T-jet, the missing link is rendered. May be, just may be Fiat can reduce the Ground clearance a bit to make it look as sporty as it once was.

- GT TDI is quick and will probably spook many a first time drivers. But I feel with the dynamics and stopping power in place, Punto T-jet will offer a lot more fun-to-drive, Rush with hush kinda experience for a novice as well.

- Punto & Linea MJD gearboxes may be lethargic but reports about it going kaput are few if any. Linea T-jet gearbox is almost spot on as vouched by expert users such as Karthik & Sathya. With GT TDI being a bit noisy which is not to everybody's liking, the GT TSI will have to contend with Punto T-jets reliability now.

- Punto T-jet will be a lot more VFM over GT TSI even in its OEM tune of 113 bhp. Fiat may be lazy but they don't act pricey like the Germans.

The first time I drove the Linea T-Jet, I paid 10k advance to bring home one. Unfortunately, I was unable to sell my Getz back then for a good price and also could not digest the FE of the T-jet, especially when the Petrol cost in Bangalore was over 80 bucks!!

So I only hope that Punto T-jet, with lesser kerb weight and better Power to Weight ratio than Linea T-jet, will be much more economical.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 28th January 2015 at 18:59.
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Old 29th January 2015, 09:04   #167
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I don't believe this. This happening at a flagship dealer. Common Fiat. This is where it starts to go wrong. When a customer goes shopping for a new car and asks for a drive, you give that customer the best car from the lot. A battered car is a sure shot way to loose a customer.

The Linea T Jet is supposed to be cheaper than the car that was sold 3 years ago which means a T Jet should come to around 10lac on road, excluding discounts. An Evo T Jet has to be cheaper. Will have to wait and see if they do some restructuring on the price of the petrol variants once the car rolls out.
This isn't the first time that I've got a battered TD car. Back in 2011, we were in the market for a hatchback and the Punto we'd called for seemed to have been used and abused. It wasn't cleaned or serviced.

I will consider it if it's under 9 lakhs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post

If you are going to come all the way to the IRR FIAT Cafe for a T-jet TD, PM me instead - and I would be happy to let you take a longer run of my remapped Linea T-Jet. I work next doors to the Fiat Cafe there.

And I will offer no comments, either positive or negative, till you drive it yourself. The T-jet needs no selling. Just drive it the way it's meant to be and we'll talk post that
Thank you, and I will certainly take you up on that offer soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
If yes were the Fiat Caffe folks able to confirm when the likely launch date could be?
The sales rep was confident that the Punto Evo wouldn't get the T-Jet treatment and it's the Avventura that will get the engine.
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Old 29th January 2015, 11:18   #168
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

My two cents,
I have driven a Linea T-jet once for an extensive TD and damn the car was quick! Considering the Linea and Punto are siblings, I guess the experience would be closely matched!

I went for this TD after I had a good look at the Linea face lift at the Auto Expo, 2014.

The engine is responsive and has a lot of fun packed into it, makes decent music, the interiors have improved in a huge way, built quality is still bullet proof.
What was not so convincing to me was the driving position, I tried and retried but I just couldn't find a proper driving position, the seat is too low and the steering wheel too high and too in-your-face. IMHO driving a car is less fun if it doesn't offer a good ergonomics.

Then came the gearbox, it lacks feel, again dilutes the fun packed in the engine to a great extent, its too rubbery and has a very 'budget hatchback' gearshift feel and l-o-o-ong throws! Being used to a slick VW gear shifter, the Fiat gear shifter just felt incorrect, especially in a car with that gem of an engine.

The car's handling and dynamics are great but the 25-30 kms that I drove did not include any ghat sections or major curves, so could not really experieor major curves, so could not really experience the handling characteristics Fiat owners and enthusiasts rave about!

Now coming to the Punto Evo T-jet, I believe this will be quicker and will handle at least as good as the Linea T-jet that I had test driven. But I am also very confident about the car having the same two issues (for me!) like the Linea has.

Also, is no one bothered about the way a hot hatch looks?! Looks are subjective I know, but the amount of chrome the Punto now has will definitely look out of place on the Punto Evo T-jet! Fiat, redesign those bumpers please, will you?

The GT TSI will trump the Punto flat out in the looks and gearbox department!

Last edited by 599gto : 29th January 2015 at 11:19.
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Old 29th January 2015, 12:54   #169
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
The GT TSI will trump the Punto flat out in the looks and gearbox department!
Looks are subjective. GB, yes but then the TJet has the price advantage for sure. Even if FIAT would have launched Polo/Swift, I doubt it would have made a blockbuster given the perception of the brand in India. Punto and Linea are good (If not better) in the respective category but still they dont even manage to sell more than 2K cars combined in a month.

I just hope that FIAT would at least get a number for its survival in the country as a "Car manufacturer". Once the MJD OEM (Suzuki and TATA) story ends for FIAT, god bless them.
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:00   #170
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

My Linea MJD completed 84000 KM in 34 months.

To be honest I have belted the s**t out of the car and I honestly admire the way the car has held itself together.

There is not a squeak nor a rattle, there is no niggle whatsoever apart from some suspension squeak I got when the car was 35000 km old and the rear strut was replaced under warranty. There was second gear pick up issue I faced when the car was new but that was sorted too.

Most of the threads here get started by people who have issues with their car, and many people join-in and start brand-bashing (somehow a little harder on Fiat than other brands). People who have no issues with their car (me included) rarely take the time to write their long term review and highlight the good points in the car.

I have had the opportunity to drive a Linea T-Jet for the last 8 days, and I have done about 1500 km on all kinds of road, and all I can say is, WHATTA CAR!!!

The car handles superbly, the cabin is silent when cruising @100 kmph in 5th, the suspension is on stiffer side but once the car picks up speed, its definitely THE BEST SUSPENSION SETUP south of 15 lakhs!

The only let down is the stock goodyear tyres that make more road noise than the engine

I am getting 10.0 kmpl in city with AC, and got 18.5 kmpl on highway!

Floor the throttle, and lo and behold, you get off with wheelspins, the tyres squealing for grip, hands compensating on the steering to hold the line, trying not to succumbing to torque steer - its madness! Madness thats addictive!

However, what I have started enjoying the most is the silent, effortless drives to and from office. Second gear pulls all the way from 15 kmph to 90 kmph effortlessly!! Whoever spoke of "faulty gearbox" earlier in this thread - please live with a T-Jet for a few days and you will know. A gearbox' primary objective is to use the engines powerband effectively, and this gearbox shines at that. I don't care if the shift is a little rubbery because I don't have to do it too often .

I have fallen in love with this engine and look forward to laying my hands on the Punto T-Jet, which will be even more fun to drive with even better power to weight ratio.

Last edited by aah78 : 29th January 2015 at 19:49. Reason: Spelling Correction. EDIT: Please limit smileys to 2/post. Thanks
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:24   #171
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

@Autocrat, whats is the max speed you achieved with your T-jet ?
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:32   #172
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I went to the Fiat plant at Ranjangaon yesterday. Got to see their assembly line and the engine and transmission assembly area.
Spoke to one of the assembly managers. He confirmed that test production of BOTH Punto T-Jet and Avventura T-Jet has been done already. Cars are being tested now. But he had no clue about the launch date.
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:58   #173
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Well well if the Punto Tjet comes, I hope they give atleast a couple of variants and not just the top end. I may just exchange my 15 months old 25k km run Mjd Dynamic for one.
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Old 29th January 2015, 16:05   #174
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

The problem with Fiat is that they manage to sell fewer cars in a week's time compared to the posts this thread has managed to generate in a similar amount of time But on a serious note I have had less major problems with my 10 year old 2 lakh kms run Palio 1.9 then I can remember. There are no squeaks or rattles whatsoever & she has only broken down twice in its lifetime, but moreover my car has not been stranded even for a day all these years for want of parts. Whoever said that reliability & peace of mind comes only with asian cars needs to read this.

Coming to the topic, the T-Jet in the punto would make it a cracker of a car with the core fundamentals of a car i.e. ride, handling, steering, stability, brakes, build quality intact. If at all Fiat launches this car in time means a proper choice for auto enthusiasts & that in no way is a bad thing & all this fuss about A.S.S, spare parts, rubbery gearshift & numerous other things is irrelevant especially because this thread is about a possible launch & not a review.
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Old 29th January 2015, 16:08   #175
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
Whoever spoke of "faulty gearbox" earlier in this thread - please live with a T-Jet for a few days and you will know.
I've been living with one for just over three years and can stand by the "faulty gearbox" claim. Okay; the word "faulty" may be incorrect, its not a great gearbox is what I would say. We may not realize it as it is the car we drive everyday. Spend some time with a Hyundai i20 or a VW Polo/Vento, Skoda Rapid, Suzuki Swift. That is when you will realize, oh how I wish my Fiat had one of these gearbox units. Every one of them has a far superior gearbox than Fiat. It maybe possible to compensate a little for poor spread of the ratios, long clutch travel but not the shift quality. Not only is the shift action heavy, there are times when I would like to have some fun, I rush to move from 2nd to third and I hit a wall. The stick just does not find its way in to third. There is no gear clashing noise. The gates are not precise and its very annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
A gearbox' primary objective is to use the engines powerband effectively, and this gearbox shines at that.
Yes and No. With a better gearbox, I bet you can shave off another second on the 0-100 run for a Linea T Jet.

A few years ago, I got to drive the much hyped Swift Diesel. This was the pre face lift model, the one that had the nice turbo whack. I could not believe I was driving a 75bhp car. The spread of power, quick gearshift action, short throw clutch, all of this contributed to a really quick car to the extent that I felt that my Jet was slower. It was a joy to use the Suzuki gearbox.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 29th January 2015 at 16:16.
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Old 29th January 2015, 18:51   #176
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Looking at all the discussion about the long clutch travel etc., is there ever a reason Fiat doesn't (want to) provide a better gearbox? I know hard to shift or rubbery gers can only be counted as short-coming, but is there a method to madness when it comes to long clutch travel and the long throws? I mean, is it that hard to come up with?

Can some experts throw some light please?
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Old 29th January 2015, 22:22   #177
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Just drove a friend's Wolf remapped Linea T-jet today evening on Map-2(again) and I am not able to wipe the grin off my face even now.
The map puts out ~ 140 bhp and ~235 Nm torque. There's a little more aggressive map( Map -3) which puts out ~150 bhp and ~245 Nm torque but might not run well on regular pump gas.

The same engine in a hatch and a remap would make my wildest dreams about fun on four wheels come true. A sub 8L turbo petrol with manual transmission would be something !!
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Old 29th January 2015, 23:12   #178
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amansanc View Post
I went to the Fiat plant at Ranjangaon yesterday. Got to see their assembly line and the engine and transmission assembly area.
Spoke to one of the assembly managers. He confirmed that test production of BOTH Punto T-Jet and Avventura T-Jet has been done already. Cars are being tested now. But he had no clue about the launch date.
Not a bit ashamed to ask, can I also come the next time. I've never been to a car plant except the ones I see on Discovery
Now that you've confirmed that they're ready, what shall I do with my 4 month old Evo 1.3MJD
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Old 29th January 2015, 23:23   #179
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by rav11stars View Post
Not a bit ashamed to ask, can I also come the next time. I've never been to a car plant except the ones I see on Discovery
Now that you've confirmed that they're ready, what shall I do with my 4 month old Evo 1.3MJD
I went for the visit through my college
But it shouldn't be too difficult to visit the plant. Usually they accept requests from enthusiasts to visit the plant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
Looking at all the discussion about the long clutch travel etc., is there ever a reason Fiat doesn't (want to) provide a better gearbox? I know hard to shift or rubbery gers can only be counted as short-coming, but is there a method to madness when it comes to long clutch travel and the long throws? I mean, is it that hard to come up with?

Can some experts throw some light please?
I spoke to the Transmission line manager yesterday. He says that they know about the issues with the gearbox. But, any change requires money and efforts. Fiat isn't ready to spend money. Plus Fiat management is really slow in taking decisions. So that's the reason why it isn't sorted yet.
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Old 29th January 2015, 23:50   #180
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Default Question to ask - What's Fiat got to lose?

If someone took an analytics based tool and ran it over all the Fiat threads we have on this forum, you would easily conclude that invariably, after the fifth page, each thread ends up in a gang bang of sorts

Now, to the point. My view on launch of the Punto T-Jet is very myopic, and hence, with high probability, wrong. But here is what I think - What has Fiat India got to lose with the launch of the T-Jet?

Clearly we have written off the Fiat brand as a failure, so that can't go wrong.

We have challenged the reliability of Fiats; so nothing lost here.

We consistently compare the Fiat After Sales Service to the Maruti service; and then conclude that it is light years behind.

We complain about interiors, quality parts, et al. The only thing we love is the Steering, Steering Feedback, handling, and ride quality.

With this as a prelude, What's Fiat got to lose anyways? If the Punto T-Jet is a competent product (which it no doubt will be), things can only get better for Fiat.

And yes, I'd buy one. I bought a MJD Linea
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