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Old 30th January 2015, 17:29   #181
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

The price difference between Linea Active 1.4 FIRE and T-Jet is 45K.

In that 45K, along with the T-jet motor, ABS and rear disc brakes are included with the latter.

Since the Punto 1.4 FIRE already comes with ABS, if FIAT decides to give rear discs, the other things that would be bundled would be 16" alloys instead of 15", a rear spoiler like in 90HP and sport pedals. Considering the above, the T-Jet Evo, IMO, will be 30-35K above 1.4 Emotion.

The price of Evo 1.4 FIRE should be around 6.9L with the new excise duty rates. The T-Jet will cost around 7.2L - 7.3L in Delhi IMO. What say?

PS With 7.3L in Delhi, BLR prices would be 7.5L which ~ 9L OTR.

Last edited by theredliner : 30th January 2015 at 17:33.
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Old 30th January 2015, 18:30   #182
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

According to Fiat web site, the price difference between Linea Active Fire Petrol and Active T-Jet is just 45k. In that 45k, Linea get the turbo engine, rear discs as well as ABS.

That means that if Fiat wants, it can actually introduce Punto Tjet at a very competitive price. Whether they do, is another matter altogether. They may be looking to add T-Jet in only the top variants of Punto and Aventura, which will be really sad.

Market for Petrols is hotting up. Fiat can really get some decent volumes from T-jet and some popularity for the Punto if they launch at least 2 T-jet variants each for Punto and Aventura (just like they have 3 for Linea).

Last edited by heavenlybull : 30th January 2015 at 18:32.
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Old 30th January 2015, 19:39   #183
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
The price difference between Linea Active 1.4 FIRE and T-Jet is 45K.
...
PS With 7.3L in Delhi, BLR prices would be 7.5L which ~ 9L OTR.
Here's something interesting I had discovered a long time ago.

The Punto 1.4 Emotion costs ~48k less than the Punto 90HP sport and misses out on 16" wheels and a few minor features.
On the other hand, the Linea 1.4 Active costs Rs 1.17 Lakh less than the Linea 1.3 Active and does not miss out on any features!!!


This could either mean that -

1) FIAT is overcharging for the 1.4 FIRE w.r.t the Punto
OR
2) FIAT has priced the 1.4 FIRE in the case of the Linea so as to ensure a sticker price of 7Lakh.

Given this anomaly, it would be interesting to see how Fiat prices the Punto T-Jet.

>If they charge 45k (difference between the Linea 1.4 FIRE and T-Jet prices) over the price of the Punto 1.4 FIRE, the price would be the same as a Punto 90HP's.
>If they price it 70k less than the Punto 90HP (the difference between the Linea Diesel and T-Jet), the price would undercut the present 1.4 Punto FIRE's by Rs 22,000!!!

(I'm assuming the Punto T-Jet will be offered with All-Disc brakes as standard; all prices used are Ex-Delhi)

Prices from the FIAT India Website.
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Fiat apparently charges 1 lakh over the 1.2 FIRE for the 1.4 FIRE. So if they were to launch the Punto T-Jet and offer it in Active trim, it could cost a whopping 1.45 lakh over the 1.2!!!

A Punto T-Jet Active with Dual Airbags, ABS-EBD and 15" wheels for 5.5 lakh would be godly .

EDIT: If you factor in that the top-end Punto already has ABS, the price of the Punto Emotion T-Jet should undercut the Punto 90HP's by more than 70k, if Fiat prices the Punto iterations on the same lines as the Linea's. Hopefully.

Last edited by Arkin evoisrevo : 30th January 2015 at 19:44.
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Old 30th January 2015, 21:04   #184
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkin evoisrevo View Post
Here's something interesting I had discovered a long time ago.

The Punto 1.4 Emotion costs ~48k less than the Punto 90HP sport and misses out on 16" wheels and a few minor features.
On the other hand, the Linea 1.4 Active costs Rs 1.17 Lakh less than the Linea 1.3 Active and does not miss out on any features!!!
The price difference between 1.4 FIRE and 1.3 MJD in Punto is less because the FIRE comes under 27% excise duty slab(long car category) because of its 1.4 engine where as MJD comes under 12% duty slab(small car category). In case of Linea, both FIRE and MJD come under 27% duty.
The difference between 1.2 and 1.4 FIRE is high because of the same reason, where in 1.2 comes under 12% duty.

The T-Jet will cost more or less the same as the 90HP Sport since T-Jet also attracts 27% duty and will at least be more expensive by 20K over the FIRE. The only way out is if Fiat lowers the price of 1.4 FIRE or remove it altogether to make way for the T-Jet

Last edited by theredliner : 30th January 2015 at 21:07.
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Old 30th January 2015, 21:50   #185
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
The price difference between 1.4 FIRE and 1.3 MJD in Punto is less because the FIRE comes under 27% excise duty slab
True, taxation is adding to its price. Also 1.4 FIRE currently comes in only the top most trim which makes it pricey. Hope Fiat launches Tjet in Dynamic as well as Emotion variant. Fiat can easily remove some non essential features like Automatic AC, alloys etc for Dynamic model to offset the cost of turbo engine, and launch Punto at a mouth watering price
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Old 31st January 2015, 09:36   #186
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
And the brakes, damn! The stopping power on the disc-drum combo was seriously impressive. I can only imagine what the all-disc setup would be like!
Thanks Suhaas for bringing that up! We often hear people talking about handling, steering feedback, quick acceleration, gear shift, gear ratio and what not when talking about enthusiast car. But regardless of the kind of enthusiast you are (winding road or straight line), this (brake) gotta be the all important one and yet remains less talked about.

In fact, the all-disc set up is the one that is making me consider the T-Jet for my next purchase, new Fiesta being the only other consideration.

So, a silly question, not like a deciding factor or something - so the additional disc brakes do mean the service folks have more opportunity to (force)sell you parts, right? Or do they distribute the load and hence results in less wear and tear on the pads? Too much analysis?
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Old 31st January 2015, 13:46   #187
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

1.4L T-jet in Punto is the news here. For me, it is a very welcome move, albeit a very late one. Why do I think so? Fiat has T-jet in their armory for a long time now and they offered 1.4L FIRE engine option in Punto. I don't know why the geniuses at Fiat did not think of offering T-jet instead of (or in addition to) the FIRE. They could have easily gained the first moved advantage. But if they did not realize the market for powerful turbo petrol hatchbacks, they should have woken up at least when VW launched Tsi and gained reasonable success.

Now, Why do I think this is a positive move? T-jet is an awesome engine and now it gives an alternate to the customers who had (and still have) Polo Tsi as their only option. Tsi come in DSG alone and T-jet will come with a manual. So, now we will get a powerful hatchback with manual gearbox as well. T-jet will be cheaper than Tsi as well and will have a better steering and ride+handling as well. It has its limitations as well. The rubbery gearbox, the interior quality, brand image are some limitations. Questionable A.S.S, resale, rear seat space are subjective to individual customers and same holds with VW as well.

How much good is this going to do to Fiat? How much will this sell? This is anyone's guess. Might not even sell over 200 per month is mine. But why are we worried about it? Shouldn't it be Fiat's worry?? Why are we more worried about the numbers than Fiat here?

Anyone who buys a car will do his own research and make a decision. No one is going to force a customer to buy a car. Many might influence, but the decision is made by the customer considering various factors and his own requirements. Now, all the brand bashing and negativity spread here is unfortunately negatively influencing a prospective customer, which a neutral forum like us should avoid.

IMO, VW Polo GT Tsi is the only direct competitor to the Punto T-jet currently. If Honda decides to launch Jazz with 1.5 L petrol, it can also become a competitor. I feel, we should restrict the comparison to these. If we bring in i20 or Swift here, then we are probably deviating from the topic.

My 2 paise.
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Old 31st January 2015, 15:15   #188
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Wow , there is a serious amount of fussing happening in this thread and way too many people are loosing their tempers on this one , Címon guys lets all just take a breather and a step back.

Whatís the thread about Ė Fiat launching the car in the T-Jet avatar.
Good move? Ė of-course but would have been nice if they did it earlier.

Will it sell Ė will need to wait and watch, a fantastic product needs to be have the backing of a maintainance network to match it , does fiat have that , to some degree but there is much room for improvement. At the rate fiat is going with respect to sales , even the addition of a 100-150 units per month might just make launching this worthwhile , it getís fiat cars on the road , more people drive it and hopefully then there is more buzz about the brand and over a period of time organically things will be better for Fiat Ė I do not believe that this car needs to set the charts on fire when it comes to numbers , if that happens good, but it does not Ė what it needs to do is shift the direction where Fiat and itís sales and brand buzz are going and make an impact over there.

Will people praise it for being an enthusiasts car and then buy something else , absolutely and itís their right , will non enthusiastís not praise it and buy it , that might happen as well. Itís a world full of subjective decisions and there car buying process just holds too many individual driven variables for any decision to really come under criticism.

On the car itself , would be nice to see a sorter throw but is the current transmission bad Ė not it is not but yes it is a bit rubbery Ė but please to note that people have got blown away with the car , while test driving it on this rubbery shift itself Ė so while a shorter throw would add a little more fun to the who package , it does not mean it is not fun right now , there needs to be a distinction between what the car is offering and what it COULD offer and given what it COULD , does not mean it is not ok in itís current Avatar. I knew about the shift when I bought my Jet, who careís if it could have been 2 seconds faster , itís fast enough. I bought it basis the run time it would have been giving at that point , not what it could potentially be capable of.

And lets face it , if Fiat put on a couple of stickers and then said here is a facelift or simply not introduced anything new - a majority of us would have been saying one thing and one thing only - Whats with the sticker , why is Fiat not bringing out the Punto with a t-jet engine ?
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Old 31st January 2015, 18:21   #189
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

I do not know why Fiat fans lose their temper on opinions about the brand easily. I have been seeing this ever since I joined the forum. Common guys, after all everyone is entitled to an opinion and it is a free world. I understand your feelings as the benchmark for me with respect to ride, handling, and build quality is the palio we had in family long back. What a car it was!

I am very happy to see that Punto is getting the engine it deserves. This will make it a hot hatch and put a dent on the sales of GT twins by Volkswagen. Hope Fiat will be able to improve it's after sales and brand value, after all car buying is a very major decision for majority of customers in the segment.

Last edited by PatienceWins : 31st January 2015 at 18:22.
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Old 1st February 2015, 11:07   #190
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Quite sure to get some bashing my way, but just wondering as a customer some time in the future, if the fuel efficiency would turn out to be a worry. That was one of the reasons why we opted for a mjd linea instead of a tjet, as 8-10kmpl was too low to live with on a daily basis.
With a lighter body, I expect the Punto tjet to return around 9-11.5kmpl. Would this be a correct estimate? I'd say that's quite decent for an enthusiast's ride. Also to compare, what does the tsi return in the city?
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Old 1st February 2015, 11:56   #191
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

To me, people are worried about sales figures because
  • Brand perception change - the product will NOT be deemed a flop. The more the vechiles are on the road, people will start noticing the brand and the products.
  • Re-sale value. The better the numbers, there will be improvement in re-sale values
  • Parts availability - The more the number of sales, easy availability of parts in the long run.
If I decide to keep a product for a long time (which such cars deserve to), I will be most concerned about the parts availability; NOT saying it may be poor now, but better numbers will always bring in a lot more confidence to go for such products assuming the parts also will be made available easily (90% parts off the shelf) and even aftermarket.

And I for one, do NOT buy the argument of exclusivity (at the sake of lower numbers). I don't mind exclusivity in terms of color / customization - but definitely NOT with minimal number of cars / variants on the road (Remember the Fiesta Acquarius Blue - among the 1.6s, I still prefer this color).

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 1st February 2015 at 12:03.
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Old 1st February 2015, 15:41   #192
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Ok its a great move, Thank you Fiat, better late (sorry) than never.

The Punto T-Jet launch to me is nothing but sort of trying to scrub away the past wrongdoings. When the crowd wanted Punto T-Jet, the great managers gave them Lineas. When the crowd wants a 1.6 mjet automatic, they are giving T-Jets. I really don't know when this messing business will end.

BTW, the equation of petrol car sales : petrol prices is sort of short-lived. I do not find any taker of Petrol today in my friend/family/acquaintance circle.

Coming to the Great-Fiat-Rubbery-Gear-Shift issue and various other comments about the ownership of this car, can we stop firing arrows in dark ?
The new word in vocab 'rubbery' is not an issue, but a different behaviour of the car.
Take the comment about Fiat from a non-Fiat owner with a pinch of salt even if they claim to be 'bestest' of best friend/relative of a Fiat owner.

(Information)- I got the spark plugs replaced after 45k run of my car and I must say its a class apart now. When I first cranked the car, it felt as if the car has not started. And the smoothness and performance was exactly like the way it was on day-1 of delivery.
The car is 'gifting' a FE of 12.2 kmpl in city on a regular basis with med-heavy foot. Highways its giving 16+ kmpl. My car is 4+ years old with 45k on odo. Only regular service.

Last edited by Speed Pujari : 1st February 2015 at 15:43.
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Old 1st February 2015, 17:38   #193
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
My two cents,
I have driven a Linea T-jet once for an extensive TD and damn the car was quick! Considering the Linea and Punto are siblings, I guess the experience would be closely matched!

I went for this TD after I had a good look at the Linea face lift at the Auto Expo, 2014.

The engine is responsive and has a lot of fun packed into it, makes decent music, the interiors have improved in a huge way, built quality is still bullet proof.
What was not so convincing to me was the driving position, I tried and retried but I just couldn't find a proper driving position, the seat is too low and the steering wheel too high and too in-your-face. IMHO driving a car is less fun if it doesn't offer a good ergonomics.

Then came the gearbox, it lacks feel, again dilutes the fun packed in the engine to a great extent, its too rubbery and has a very 'budget hatchback' gearshift feel and l-o-o-ong throws! Being used to a slick VW gear shifter, the Fiat gear shifter just felt incorrect, especially in a car with that gem of an engine.

The car's handling and dynamics are great but the 25-30 kms that I drove did not include any ghat sections or major curves, so could not really experieor major curves, so could not really experience the handling characteristics Fiat owners and enthusiasts rave about!

Now coming to the Punto Evo T-jet, I believe this will be quicker and will handle at least as good as the Linea T-jet that I had test driven. But I am also very confident about the car having the same two issues (for me!) like the Linea has.

Also, is no one bothered about the way a hot hatch looks?! Looks are subjective I know, but the amount of chrome the Punto now has will definitely look out of place on the Punto Evo T-jet! Fiat, redesign those bumpers please, will you?

The GT TSI will trump the Punto flat out in the looks and gearbox department!
I just bought the New Linea Tjet (Emotion) a couple of days back and i don't quite agree to your finding. I own a Polo 1.6 Petrol as well & the gears are definitely very slick. The Fiat does have a long clutch & slightly longer throws, but once you get used to it, it isn't a problem. The steering is set a bit high, but at 5'10, i didn't have any problem getting a comfortable position.

You need to just drive it for some time and trust me these issues become immaterial.
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Old 1st February 2015, 19:33   #194
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Point 1-is the gearbox of the new Linea T jet slick?
Answer-nope. Its improved but still rubbery.

Point 2-should punto T jet exist?
Answer-yes, it should, cause we need choices.

Point 3-why people are skeptical about buying?
Answer-poor brand image since 1997 and yet no serious marketing activities. Heck, I pray that the new lot of cars have improved quality.

And this is coming from the owner who has taken 22 warranty claims in 2 years 4 months 50k kms. And only today, a new niggle has emerged. Squealing noise from the brakes which have 50% of pad life and perfectly working discs.
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Old 2nd February 2015, 07:53   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
Point 1-is the gearbox of the new Linea T jet slick?
Answer-nope. Its improved but still rubbery.

Point 2-should punto T jet exist?
Answer-yes, it should, cause we need choices.

Point 3-why people are skeptical about buying?
Answer-poor brand image since 1997 and yet no serious marketing activities. Heck, I pray that the new lot of cars have improved quality.

And this is coming from the owner who has taken 22 warranty claims in 2 years 4 months 50k kms. And only today, a new niggle has emerged. Squealing noise from the brakes which have 50% of pad life and perfectly working discs.
I completely agree about your observation regarding Tjet's gearshifter. Now, with a slightly better gearbox, much improved gear ratios (as reported by Linea Tjet owners here), same long throw clutch, ergonomics as we all know of, much improved interiors over your old model Punto and after those 22 warranty claims, would you or won't you reccommend a friend buying Punto Tjet? Considering this friend is as an enthusiast ad you are.
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