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Old 11th April 2015, 21:02   #241
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
I was not impressed by the output of VAG 1.2 TSI or 1.5 1.6 TDI engines. Measly 105BHP when the competitors have better performing engines with more horses, say 1L ecoboost or 1.6 hyundai crdi. But it's just very recently that I came to realise that it's because VAG quotes wheel horse power instead of at the crank and it's usually underrated as well. Now these figures look good.

True. I remember seeing near 105hp figures for the Rapid, while my Punto 90hp had only around 82hp at the wheels.

But that still doesn't make 135hp or even 113hp 'too less' for our market context, which was my point for that post. I didn't intend to compare it with the GT TSi, but was only indicating where the market stands.
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Old 11th April 2015, 22:08   #242
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
True. I remember seeing near 105hp figures for the Rapid, while my Punto 90hp had only around 82hp at the wheels.
Kryptonite's rapid tdi with stock map was measured at 108bhp and 280nm at the wheel as mentioned in his thread.

Robi's 1.2TSI was measured at 98bhp and 195 nm at the wheel. Low power figures probably due to not being be to hold a gear coz of dsg. But torque is higher than specs.

Sorry for going
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Old 11th April 2015, 22:13   #243
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Of late, I am in Ranjangaon quite frequently for some work. I have seen non-camouflaged Puntos scorching the MIDC roads (wide and sparsely populated with traffic), several in tow. Unfortunately they do not stop so its impossible to see whether there is a disc at the rear or not. But they do zip.
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Old 11th April 2015, 22:40   #244
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by //M View Post
Fiat Punto T-Jet Spied
Thanks for the find //M. Finally some concrete evidence of the Punto T-Jet imminent's launch. More delay to my car plan's [in a good sense though] since want to hold on a bit to check this out before taking a call whether to go with TSI / 90HP/ this one.

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
16 inch alloys are a given, and it looks the same as the ones on the 90hp diesel.

I'm a bit skeptical of that 135bhp claim though. I feel it will come in the same state of tune as the Linea TJet.
I hope they change the alloy design on the production version though. The existing 15-inch ones look so much better/hot compared to this bland 16-inch one. Was shocked when Fiat offered the sexy alloy on lower end models than the 90hp one when they launched the Evo. In fact on Evo's page, they describe the 16-inch alloy feature but show the 15-inch alloy design [with a note though]

Agree on the 135hp being a bit too good to be true. Will really offend the latest owners of the New Linea T-Jet

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Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Around Diwali? Fiat, please make it happen early.
+1 to that. Nov (Diwali) is too far off & would really be good if they can launch sometime by July/August. But from news articles, they still have 2 more phases of testing to go it seems, so not sure how long it would take them.
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Old 11th April 2015, 22:46   #245
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Good to see something for the enthusiasts. On paper this looks promising but that was the case even for the Linea T-JET as well as the Punto 90HP MJD.

I wouldn't expect sales numbers to move up due to Punto T-JET but it will be another option for the enthusiast.

When they had this engine in the Linea and the Punto was on sale, I fail to understand why it took so many years to put the T-JET in the Punto.

Someone said better late than never. I would say, too little too late....
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Old 11th April 2015, 23:10   #246
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
I was not impressed by the output of VAG 1.2 TSI or 1.5 1.6 TDI engines. Measly 105BHP when the competitors have better performing engines with more horses, say 1L ecoboost or 1.6 hyundai crdi. But it's just very recently that I came to realise that it's because VAG quotes wheel horse power instead of at the crank and it's usually underrated as well. Now these figures look good.

Sorry, I find that really hard to believe because if that were really the case, the POLO 1.2 TDI with its 74 bhp WHP would make it around 85 bhp at the crank if I take 15% transmission losses. The company would never this opportunity to advertise this pass as I ll be shown to be better than the Swift D in power.

Power of any car in India is always quoted at the crank and not at WHP.
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Old 11th April 2015, 23:16   #247
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Sorry, I find that really hard to believe because if that were really the case, the POLO 1.2 TDI with its 74 bhp WHP would make it around 85 bhp at the crank if I take 15% transmission losses. The company would never this opportunity to advertise this pass as I ll be shown to be better than the Swift D in power.

Power of any car in India is always quoted at the crank and not at WHP.
Sankar is right. VAG group cars always publish wheel horse power and not at the crank. There's no rule in India that BHP should be at the crank.

VW's numbers are more honest.

Regarding the Polo 1.2 TDI. It had 75BHP and it was definitely no slow coach. Out on the highway the 1.2TDI was a lot of fun to drive and could easily keep up with the 1.3 Multijet engines. Only thing it did suffer from was a load of turbo lag. In city, till the turbo kicked in, it was more like 20BHP.

If you want actual proof, just check the Dyno thread. All VW 1.6 TDI are very close to 105BHP whereas the Swift is around 65-70BHP. Same for Honda and Toyota. My Altis showed 95BHP on the dyno.
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Old 11th April 2015, 23:21   #248
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Sorry, I find that really hard to believe because if that
Dyno graphs say otherwise and it's there in this forum for you or anyone else to see. Other cars have been on this very same dyno also and those figures are also available. We are talking about the Dynapack dyno at RRP.
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post

Regarding the Polo 1.2 TDI. It had 75BHP and it was definitely no slow coach. Out on the highway the 1.2TDI was a lot of fun to drive and could easily keep up with the 1.3 Multijet engines. Only thing it did suffer from was a load of turbo lag. In city, till the turbo kicked in, it was more like 20BHP.
Exactly the 1.2TDI was an underdog and it surprised me on the highway while I was in my Swift. The 1.2TDI was not slow on the highway, it was very audible and rough but top end performance was more than decent for a 3cyl 1197cc diesel.

There is no remap available for that motor except the box so didn't get traction in performance diesel crowd.

Last edited by Sankar : 11th April 2015 at 23:29.
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Old 11th April 2015, 23:27   #249
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Good to see something for the enthusiasts.
When they had this engine in the Linea and the Punto was on sale, I fail to understand why it took so many years to put the T-JET in the Punto.
Fiat took serious note that a niche performance hot hatch segment exists in India, only after the Polo TSi / GT TDi started doing really well. Almost 15% of Polo sales comprise of the GT twins and this is due to a supply crunch. This was in 2013. Work on P-TJet started early 2014.
The second delay happened because there was a bit of a problem packaging the turbocharger in the Punto's nose as the space behind the rad is less than that of Linea. Hence parts needed to be different alongwith all associated changes. Dial in development / sourcing time, part validation, durability testing and the launch got delayed.
But anyways, all's well that ends well. Cheers to that!
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Old 11th April 2015, 23:58   #250
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Dyno graphs say otherwise and it's there in this forum for you or anyone else to see. Other cars have been on this very same dyno also and those figures are also available. We are talking about the Dynapack dyno at RRP.

Exactly the 1.2TDI was an underdog and it surprised me on the highway while I was in my Swift. The 1.2TDI was not slow on the highway, it was very audible and rough but top end performance was more than decent for a 3cyl 1197cc diesel.

There is no remap available for that motor except the box so didn't get traction in performance diesel crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Sankar is right. VAG group cars always publish wheel horse power and not at the crank. There's no rule in India that BHP should be at the crank.

VW's numbers are more honest.

Regarding the Polo 1.2 TDI. It had 75BHP and it was definitely no slow coach. Out on the highway the 1.2TDI was a lot of fun to drive and could easily keep up with the 1.3 Multijet engines. Only thing it did suffer from was a load of turbo lag. In city, till the turbo kicked in, it was more like 20BHP.

If you want actual proof, just check the Dyno thread. All VW 1.6 TDI are very close to 105BHP whereas the Swift is around 65-70BHP. Same for Honda and Toyota. My Altis showed 95BHP on the dyno.
Although I know the 'kyroponite' thread you are talking about, it says it developed 103bhp AT THE WHEEL @ 3400rpm measured on the dyno as against Skoda/VW claim @ 4400 rpm. I find this hard to believe too that the company folks were off by 1000 rpm for their bhp figures or it took the 1.6 TDI another 1000 rpm to develop a measly 2 bhp as in the thread it was mentioned that the power started tailing off after 4000 rpm.

Anyway we can start a new thread on the same topic as I don't want to hijack the Fiat Punto one.
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Old 12th April 2015, 00:57   #251
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

With the news of Punto T-Jet with 130+ bhp and TATA planning a new brand and Bolt with 120 bhp, things are only getting interesting and more confusing for me.
I'll be going in for a car change by the end of the year.
Hope Punto comes with 6+R gearbox.
Can we also pray for a dual clutch auto shifter ?? :-)
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Old 12th April 2015, 09:19   #252
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

Too little too late.

This should have been done a lot earlier. Although good news for enthusiasts there would be no effect on the Sales. It might give Fiat some bragging rights, but Punto is more or less a dead model now and Tjet did nothing for Linea.

That said, me being me, I may look to trade my 75Hp for this.
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Old 12th April 2015, 09:54   #253
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

The sales chart is going to remain the same as it is but in the Indian Car Enthusiasts group, one of the members members made a statement that he spotted the Punto Evo T-jet, Cherokee and Linea together undergoing tests in Himachal last month. According to him they were coming from Manali. I think Fiat is going to update the Linea with the new T-Jet engine too as according to what I read in TFMC the Punto Evo T-Jet featured a different turbo hence the boost in figures.
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Old 12th April 2015, 11:38   #254
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Default Re: Scoop - Fiat Punto Evo T-Jet coming up!

As expected the business is again going to get wrong for Fiat.

If they want inspiration they should look forward to Renault or hire anyone from their leadership. Remember how Duster changed the face of SUV which was monopolized by Scorpio despite Duster is not such a great product. And now, with no-so-great Lodgy giving jitter to Innova making leadership at Toyota calling for emergency meetings day-in day-out.
Having said that, the need of the hour is a powerful Diesel Automatic which has a huge demand today. Majority of junta is reluctant to put money into questionable and highly priced Vento TDI DSG or Polo GT.
The dualogic is a proven transmission, which can give some bars on the sales chart of Fiat. Recently my friend bought a Vento Mpi DSG for 13.6 lakhs which I really don't know why.
T-Jet Punto with whatever bhp/torque figure is not going to help Fiat.

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Last edited by Speed Pujari : 12th April 2015 at 11:40.
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Old 12th April 2015, 12:38   #255
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Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Fiat took serious note that a niche performance hot hatch segment exists in India, only after the Polo TSi / GT TDi started doing really well. Almost 15% of Polo sales comprise of the GT twins and this is due to a supply crunch. This was in 2013. Work on P-TJet started early 2014.

The second delay happened because there was a bit of a problem packaging the turbocharger in the Punto's nose as the space behind the rad is less than that of Linea. Hence parts needed to be different alongwith all associated changes. Dial in development / sourcing time, part validation, durability testing and the launch got delayed.

But anyways, all's well that ends well. Cheers to that!
Actually they took note of it much earlier, with the Palio 1.6 GTX and later - the 1.6 Sport. But with the Punto and Linea- they chose to play it too safe. 'One bitten, twice shy' as the saying goes.

Doesn't Punto have TJet motor internationally. So what's the space constraint? Or is it limited to the Indian Evo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
As expected the business is again going to get wrong for Fiat.

If they want inspiration they should look forward to Renault or hire anyone from their leadership. Remember how Duster changed the face of SUV which was monopolized by Scorpio despite Duster is not such a great product. And now, with no-so-great Lodgy giving jitter to Innova making leadership at Toyota calling for emergency meetings day-in day-out.
Having said that, the need of the hour is a powerful Diesel Automatic which has a huge demand today. Majority of junta is reluctant to put money into questionable and highly priced Vento TDI DSG or Polo GT.
The dualogic is a proven transmission, which can give some bars on the sales chart of Fiat. Recently my friend bought a Vento Mpi DSG for 13.6 lakhs which I really don't know why.
T-Jet Punto with whatever bhp/torque figure is not going to help Fiat.

Image copyright respective owner.
Attachment 1359784
Renault had it easier because creating a brand in a new market is much easier than reviving one.

Dialogic cannot help FIAT either in terms of sales. When Dualogic comes people will want the 1.6 diesel. When 1.6 diesel comes, people would want better service. If that also comes - then a newer car than the old Linea or Punto. It's a never ending cycle.

The only thing that can maybe help them in terms of sales is to get the 500 platform to India - fast. Anyways, the Punto replacement is also going to be from the 500 family. 500 five door (New Punto), 500X mini SUV and the Jeep Renegade based on the X might just help to get some sales back if localised properly and priced right.

Till then- all these are only options for the enthusiasts. A 137bhp hatchback under 10 lakhs is unheard of in India. So some guys will definitely jump in.
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