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Old 29th January 2015, 12:19   #1
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Default Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

I've heard from one of my friends that in Singapore anyone cannot buy a car there. I got interested and searched.

Wary of the fact that uncontrolled growth in the number of vehicles will result in traffic jams in land and road scarce Singapore, the government has implemented a range of measures to manage car ownership and usage. These include the Certificate of Entitlement (COE), Vehicle Quota System (VQS), road taxes and Electronic Road Pricing (ERP). All motor vehicles must be registered with the Land Transport Authority (LTA).

More details in these links:
http://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltaweb...ta-system.html
http://www.expatsingapore.com/content/view/1152

So coming to the actual question : why can't we have a similar vehicle quota in India? The usual answer would be poor public transport, SGP is a smaller nation when compared to India, Govt loses revenue.

But if we think the other way round : the Govt, instead of spending huge amounts in expanding roads and infrastructure, why can't the funds be channeled into developing a public infrastructure so huge and practical that we'd be impressed and love using it.
I'd say the Govt should see public trans as a revenue-generating measure too. if the private operators can reap in profits so can the Govt.

Enforcing such a quota will discourage anyone with the cash to just go a buy a n automobile just because they can.

These two should go hand-in-hand so people should see the benefit(read feel proud) of using public transport. What say?
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Old 29th January 2015, 13:11   #2
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Default re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Some reasons, for the present:
1. Vehicle distribution isn't uniform in India. This means that is implemented across the country, some regions would get disadvantaged. However, on the other hand, if implemented based on region, then there will be a lot of misuse and circumventing, leading to no benefit at the end of the day.
2. If the said policy came to be implemented successfully in some manner, then vehicle sales would be impacted negatively, leading to large scale unemployment, not to mention the revenue loss and some other related disadvantages.

What we really need (IMHO) are:
1. Something similar to a congestion charge for Metro Cities, and it needs to be steep.
2. Penalize lone person travel in a vehicle, by prescribing steep differential toll rates.
3. Push aggressively for smaller cars (less than 4 m is't small enough). This would help reduce the total footprint and emissions (lesser weight to haul).
4. Reward and promote systems to assure safety of Two Wheeler Drivers in cities.
5. Penalize large cars by significantly higher tolls, significantly higher taxes and significantly higher congestion charges.

All this of course, in addition to pushing towards use of renewable sources of energy, lesser emissions and better public transport.

Bottom-line:
1. The present automobile industry needs a gradual thrust (coercion) and incentives to transform towards smaller, more efficient and lighter automobiles, in a way that doesn't cause wide-scale job losses or reduction in market size.
2. Gradually increase cost of vehicle ownership in India. Recently, a study noted that owning a 4 Wheeler is now seen as a necessity in India. It should eventually be made to go back to levels where it is seen as a marginal necessity / luxury.
3. Influence market preference change towards smaller cars and two wheelers, whilst making the roads safe for them.

Just my few random cents.....

Last edited by roy_libran : 29th January 2015 at 13:14.
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Old 29th January 2015, 13:32   #3
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Default re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

While this system may work very well in Singapore, it will be a huge nightmare in India. We did have a different type of quota system till the 80's. Remember the wait periods to buy an Amby or a "Fiat" or a Bajaj? I'd expect political recommendations and black market to come up in any restriction. I'd rather want better infrastructure and alternative transport. Taxes on Indian cars and fuel are already quite high compared to rest of the world. Regarding alternative transport, its happening slowly - like the metro rails coming up in different cities. Once that happens, things will change. When I was in London, I almost always used the Tube. When parking and congestion charge is so expensive and the alternative is so easy, people will use it on their own.
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Old 29th January 2015, 13:43   #4
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Default re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
What we really need (IMHO) are:
1. Something similar to a congestion charge for Metro Cities, and it needs to be steep.
2. Penalize lone person travel in a vehicle, by prescribing steep differential toll rates.
3. Push aggressively for smaller cars (less than 4 m is't small enough). This would help reduce the total footprint and emissions (lesser weight to haul).
4. Reward and promote systems to assure safety of Two Wheeler Drivers in cities.
5. Penalize large cars by significantly higher tolls, significantly higher taxes and significantly higher congestion charges.

All this of course, in addition to pushing towards use of renewable sources of energy, lesser emissions and better public transport.
The last point should be first! Better public transport.

With Delhi Metro starting, though not apparent, large number of cars have reduced. See the roaring success of the Metro on the Andheri Ghatkopar stretch - again vehicles have reduced considerably.

To reply to your view points:
1. Better public transport first.
2. Better public transport first.
3. Better public transport first.
4. Better public transport will easily achieve this on its own.
5. They are already penalised by higher taxes.

I do like to drive but on regular commute if a decent comfortable mode of public transport is available, I would gladly ditch my car. But sadly it is not.

Why has our governments and local bodies not learnt from cities like Singapore, London, etc. even after so many 'study' tours? Instead of increasing AC buses, BEST is talking of discontinuing them! Several times I have taken an AC bus earlier, nowadays the frequency is so bad, I have to take my car. Just increase AC buses at reasonable fares, forget car owners, even two wheelers will prefer the comfortable AC buses. Increase of local rail lines are stalled for some reason or other. Proper connections to local rail/metro/mono for last leg connectivity with seamless payment methods. Easy smart card payments across all tolls and public transport. All relatively easily achievable but of course if government actually did governance...

Sadly there is no move even being made towards better public transport.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 29th January 2015 at 13:46.
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Old 29th January 2015, 14:12   #5
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Smile re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
2. If the said policy came to be implemented successfully in some manner, then vehicle sales would be impacted negatively, leading to large scale unemployment, not to mention the revenue loss and some other related disadvantages.
Increasing public transport will increase employment in related fields. It will simply shift employment from manufacture of private vehicles to the manufacture of buses, trains, metro coaches, drivers, mechanics etc.

Such a scenario was actually prevalent in many socialist countries until recent years. If we take a look at the Soviet Union, we would see the kind of system that OP is advocating. It was quite successful. There are well developed metro and rail systems in the former Soviet republics. Moscow metro is one of the top systems in ridership even today. Private vehicles were discouraged and only high officials, important people like doctors or police who had to quickly respond to emergencies were permitted to buy private vehicles. There was also a system of rewarding contributions to the nation by giving a private vehicle. For instance an athlete who won a medal or a manager after 30 years of service etc. Most of the people took public transit as private vehicle ownership was restricted.

Such a system is really good as it saves fuel, foreign exchange and raw materials and reduces pollution and congestion. However it runs contrary to the currently prevalent capitalist systems where consumption is encouraged. There are pro and cons of course. At a macro level we can all agree that public transport is better but being driving enthusiasts, we all love the drive our cars. I feel that we should have an extensive public transport system that is modern and efficient so that most people choose to use it rather than driving even if they posses their own cars.
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Old 29th January 2015, 14:25   #6
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Default re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
The last point should be first! Better public transport.

With Delhi Metro starting, though not apparent, large number of cars have reduced. See the roaring success of the Metro on the Andheri Ghatkopar stretch - again vehicles have reduced considerably.

To reply to your view points:
1. Better public transport first.
2. Better public transport first.
3. Better public transport first.
4. Better public transport will easily achieve this on its own.
5. They are already penalised by higher taxes.

Sadly there is no move even being made towards better public transport.
Completely agree with Sandeep. Nothing can be implemented before providing better public transport system and that means improving the system by at least 10 times if not more.

The influx of two wheeler in Delhi happened in late 80's when people just could not board heavily over crowded DTC buses to commute to offices.
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Old 29th January 2015, 14:46   #7
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Default re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

A positive approach would be to make the public transport practical and desirable option instead of making cars more expensive. A car is more than just a mode of transportation. Some times is a proud procession, some time a recreational object. There are large number of people who own a car but prefer to take public transport to work.

Issue that needs to be addressed is 'congestion' not 'car'. Not just public transport, but simple things like better traffic management, law enforcement will go a long way.

Imagine, In bangalore, every one pays the congestion fee, like in SG, still stuck in traffic!
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:18   #8
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Default Re: Vehicle quota system : why not in India?

In Singapore/US/Europe, One can reach anywhere using public transport. Reaching according to me would include, reaching on time and reaching in an air-conditioned comfortable vehicle. In India, I would prefer a car anyday, just because, I can reach on time and use the comfort of AC. When I was in the US, I could have hired a self drive rental car, or even used my friend's stand-by car, but I used public transport, just because public transport is reliable and comfortable. Right from being on time, Effective AC and other lateral comforts like Online passes/tickets, courteous driver add to the experience.

I would certainly vote against this system in India, till we have a seamless and robust public transport. Even if implemented, like all other laws, it would hit only the salaried common man. The big shots and politically connected would obviously get away with that rule. Till then, let the current system of car purchase continue.

Last edited by GTO : 30th January 2015 at 17:26. Reason: PM coming up
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Old 29th January 2015, 15:58   #9
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Each geographic location or political region has its own set of rules. Just because another country implements an idea, doesn't mean that every other country should follow it. Singapore has quota system mainly because majority of the population can afford cars. Quota system ensures that traffic density doesn't go beyond a controllable level.

In India, traffic density is quite low if you take the whole country into account. Most people can't afford cars.

In India, public transport and comfort rarely go hand in hand. If government tries to make public transport comfortable, people with lower income levels cannot afford it. Separate classes of public transport (like Volvo buses and old junk buses built on truck chassis running on the same routes - as in Bangalore) will cost government a lot of money.

Six years ago, I moved to my current house outside the city limits for peace and tranquility. Luckily I already had a car by then. If I didn't have a car and if I was told that I would have to wait for a few years for my turn to buy a car, I would never have thought of living here.

Some kind of quota system exists for autorickshaws in Bangalore, as far as I know. The authorities don't allow more than a certain number of rickshaws to ply on the road (of course, I can bet that there far more on the road than actually allowed).
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Old 29th January 2015, 19:56   #10
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

This thread coincides with this news:

Mumbai High Court has asked the State Govt to create procedure to make a car buyer prove that he has got a parking place. Otherwise his vehicle won't be registered.

http://www.loksatta.com/mumbai-news/...wners-1065845/
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Old 29th January 2015, 20:07   #11
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

I believe it has to do mainly with area to be covered to travel to work.

In Singapore or other small areas, an Infrastructure investment of $ X MM, will mean most routes / places will be covered.

That is not so in a place like India.

Govt. providing Metro like facilities will ease this to a large extent.

Its not like the average office going guy is hell bent on taking his car in this traffic, He does not have a good, comfortable alternate means of transport.
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Old 29th January 2015, 20:09   #12
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

In India, where comfortable public transport is still not good enough in most of the cities, where the last mile connectivity is still a big question mark, private vehicles will be preferred by anyone who can afford it. Let us first make the public transport connectivity better and then bring in such systems. This is my opinion.

In addition, in a country like India, where corruption is prevalent in every quarter of life, do we really think such systems can be put to good effect? People now register their cars in other states (like PY) to save on taxes. How do they manage to do this? By forging documents and bribing officers, correct? Introducing such systems + adding more complexities to restrict vehicle buying will really result in more corruption. The asking charges of officers / agents will increase (i.e. the incidental charges and handling charges we pay as indirect bribe to the dealers will increase from the current 5k to 10k). The more restrictions we are put under, the more ways people will find to by-pass it.

O.T. Our country is in a state where making things simple will at least result in lesser corruption. e.g. make taxes uniform across states + make refund of taxes easy while changing registration. Such steps will ensure people will register vehicles in their respective states and will change registration whenever they move between states.
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Old 29th January 2015, 22:58   #13
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Uniformity in implementation of any quota is a question mark in our country. Its just not possible, and as always, there will be corruption and exceptions will be made.
Also, the idea of asking an individual to show parking place for registration is also absurd. First give better roads and infrastructure before taking any further tax from Citizens.
We have to consider the employment which is provided, directly or indirectly, to Indian citizens before arriving at any sort of judgement on Quota System of any sort. By even the most optimistic stretch of imagination, the public transport system is non existent in India. And widespread reach of Public transport is also a question mark as most of cities in India lack proper planning for infrastructure. Even if there is planning, corruption has allowed narrower roads with buildings cropping up everywhere, even where wide roads are planned.
In depth reach of public transport is required even in current scenario, imagine what level of public transport effectiveness is required to have a direct or indirect cap on car sales.
Just not possible. We cant get proper fuel, cant have proper roads, cant implement laws, why even think of something which is, in all probability, not practical to implement ?

Last edited by aaggoswami : 29th January 2015 at 22:59.
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Old 29th January 2015, 23:01   #14
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
The last point should be first! Better public transport.

With Delhi Metro starting, though not apparent, large number of cars have reduced. See the roaring success of the Metro on the Andheri Ghatkopar stretch - again vehicles have reduced considerably.

To reply to your view points:
1. Better public transport first.
2. Better public transport first.
3. Better public transport first.
4. Better public transport will easily achieve this on its own.
5. They are already penalised by higher taxes.

I do like to drive but on regular commute if a decent comfortable mode of public transport is available, I would gladly ditch my car. But sadly it is not.
Completely agree with you on this. We have a success story here in the capital itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
Increasing public transport will increase employment in related fields. It will simply shift employment from manufacture of private vehicles to the manufacture of buses, trains, metro coaches, drivers, mechanics etc.

Such a system is really good as it saves fuel, foreign exchange and raw materials and reduces pollution and congestion. However it runs contrary to the currently prevalent capitalist systems where consumption is encouraged. There are pro and cons of course. At a macro level we can all agree that public transport is better but being driving enthusiasts, we all love the drive our cars. I feel that we should have an extensive public transport system that is modern and efficient so that most people choose to use it rather than driving even if they posses their own cars.
Brilliantly put Sir. According to JNNURM "According to the 2001 census, India has a population of 1027 million with approximately 28per cent or 285 million people living in urban areas.
As a result of the liberalization policies adopted by the Government of India is expected to increase the share of the urban population may increase to about 40 per cent of total population by the year 2021. It is estimated that by the year 2011, urban areas would contribute about 65 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP). However, this higher productivity is contingent upon the availability and quality of infrastructure services."

At the 2001 census 72.2% of the population lived in about 638,000 villages and the remaining 27.8% lived in more than 5,100 towns and over 380 urban agglomerations. Source:Wikipedia

My point of view is that we're spending huge amount of funds in just improving the roads in the urban areas. Why can't we just have a proven transport system within the city and suburbs? We need not reinvent anything new. We have an excellent working model in our capital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
A positive approach would be to make the public transport practical and desirable option instead of making cars more expensive. A car is more than just a mode of transportation. Some times is a proud procession, some time a recreational object.
Issue that needs to be addressed is 'congestion' not 'car'. Not just public transport, but simple things like better traffic management, law enforcement will go a long way.
Imagine, In bangalore, every one pays the congestion fee, like in SG, still stuck in traffic!
Exactly. A car is just one mode of transport. If buying it is made expensive, maybe we'll revert to other modes and flood the roads with bikes and what not. We need to have a system that's more pleasing and comfortable enough to travel. It should just become another part of our society and evolve with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Reaching according to me would include, reaching on time and reaching in an airconditioned comfort vehicle.
I would certainly vote against this system in india, till we have a seamless and robust public transport.
I would say, let's have a public transport so efficient that we're overwhelmed. We get out of our house, walk a bit to get to the nearest point and then should be able to get onto a public transport within the next 5 minutes. Probably such an efficient service will beat the purpose of taking our own vehicle out.
Note that I'm only mentioning about urban transport. All I'm saying is instead of the huge spend on flyovers/underpasses and 20 lane roads, let's try to build a good public transport system that's sustainable. The funds generated and saved can be used to develop the roads over the entire country.
Enthusiasts can still own a car and drive out of town and enjoy the thrill of driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Each geographic location or political region has its own set of rules. Just because another country implements an idea, doesn't mean that every other country should follow it. Singapore has quota system mainly because majority of the population can afford cars. Quota system ensures that traffic density doesn't go beyond a controllable level.
Agreed. But we're adept at looking at policies of others and adapting them to suit our needs. Our constitution is the finest example, partly rigid and partly flexible

This is what really impresses me about this forum. I get to hear many views that I've not even thought of and that sets me thinking.
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Old 29th January 2015, 23:19   #15
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Default Re: Vehicle Quota System: Why not in India?

Vehicle quota? In India? Are you serious? Don't even put such silly ideas in our authorities heads. Because if you do then it is you who will pay the price. Ordinary citizens like most of us would be sweating it out at a bus stop with car parked at home while the VIPs would merrily be driving around with a 10-car convoy.
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