Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd February 2015, 23:30   #46
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 153
Thanked: 146 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Exactly my point, Global NCAP did do a test, but there have been changes in the VW models post that. And we're only assuming that the Indian Toyota is safe based on the tests in Brazil. We currently do not know for sure, since no Indian independent agency did publish these crash test results for Indian vehicles.

Why cannot the government setup an independent crash testing lab and certify all cars independently and release the reports publicly like Bureau of Energy Efficiency (BEE). Atleast it will be impartial and truly independent unlike ARAI.
True, we can't know for sure unless crash tests are done for all models in India. Just that VW and Toyota have been proactive in providing airbags in all variants, so it seems they are taking safety more seriously than the rest of the manufacturers. But we definitely need a systematic process of conducting crash tests by an independent agency.


Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
What we are seeing here is another example of our sold out politicians and bureaucracy. This is not particularly an Indian problem either. The way I see this game being played, is by pitting two megabucks entities against one another. Maybe the insurance companies will pick the fight for improving safety, thus increasing their profits.

Its a simple thing for them to compile the data from the car crashes that are happening and see what speed the car was doing when a fatal crash happened. That kind of data will make the BS stop.
Insurance companies in other countries seem to be offering discounts for cars with safety equipment (https://www.geico.com/information/di...nce-discounts/). However, when I compared the insurance premiums for Ritz VXI and Ritz VXI ABS on policybazaar.com, the ABS version had a higher premium.
JonSnow is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2015, 23:49   #47
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 65
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Peoples, I have only one thing to say. Please do not jump to conclusions and launch into rants based on what un- automotive pseudo tabloids like Outlook say. Let's wait for the announcement of regulations.Already makers like Toyota, VW etc. are putting airbags in base versions. So no matter what regulations the govt brings if carmakers bring safety package versions as marketing tools, then all would eventually upgrade , even Maruti.
The sad but true fact is we are a grossly un-educated country. Not illiterate but uneducated. For god' s sake, we don't even know that driving with high beam when not required is "challan-able". In such conditions, fancy gadgets like Airbags, Pre tensioners, Force Limiters, etc would not matter at all when people would drive without seat belts in absence of cops and turn off airbag switch as it is expensive to repair.
Lastly, Govt of India is under no obligation to follow NCAP norms which under Max Mosley is acting more like an extension of EU propaganda division than a charity which it should be. The European makers with the exception of VW have been notorious for building unreliable cars, which although have Safety Equipment, frankly have reliability issues, especially for family cars. ( Read JD power reports).

Last edited by Carophilic : 3rd February 2015 at 23:58.
Carophilic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 00:42   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,115
Thanked: 3,489 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
Peo------rts).
The problem here is not us being uneducated, but the guys in charge of the auto manufacturing being uneducated, throwing those statements.
How did they land up as top honchos?
Maybe pandering?
mayankk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 06:48   #49
BHPian
 
H_Dogg72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 366
Thanked: 284 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
exception of VW have been notorious for building unreliable cars, which although have Safety Equipment, frankly have reliability issues, especially for family cars. ( Read JD power reports).

I'd take an unreliable but safe car over an unsafe car any day of the week.
The only reason other Japanese cars are reliable is because they have no electronics. Read up on rockporium's kizashi thread. Or a recent Elantra thread where the power steering failed.
Euro cars are over engineered. The more parts you have, the higher the rate of failure.
H_Dogg72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 08:01   #50
BHPian
 
pratyush6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: RNC - BLR
Posts: 484
Thanked: 541 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

I think it would be a good idea to make all those honchos travel in the base version of the cheapest car they produce for the mango people, all the time.

I am essentially outraged by the statements made my Mr. Gandhi & Bhargava. All they care is filling their wallets. No one gives two hoots about how the mango man travels. The less said about the Government the better.

Our media acts like a sprawned girlfriend but in this case, it is the only saviour the people have. I believe most of our country men buying their first cars assume it must be safe but they just do not know. Untill and unless the consumers are educated they would just never know.
pratyush6 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 09:08   #51
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,478
Thanked: 3,621 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
I have a question; may be it turns out to be quite dumb but I want to ask it nevertheless.

Why should cars be made cheaper (at the cost of safety) just so that it is accessible? If they get more expensive so be it!! Today, if I can buy a particular model at X rupees, may be I'll have to downgrade to a lower model with the increase in price, but isn't that better keeping in mind our safety??
Their logic is that in the above scenario what happens to the people buying entry level cars like Alto? What car can they downgrade to? None. So they will resort to bikes and thereby risk there lives more w.r.t. to an Alto without any safety features.

Last edited by GTO : 4th February 2015 at 16:49. Reason: Typo
drmohitg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 09:11   #52
BHPian
 
jetti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 442
Thanked: 357 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Those asking for proof that safety equipment makes a difference, please read Saving lives: Improved vehicle designs bring down death rates
By the way this is published by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), a U.S. non-profit organization funded by auto insurers, not makers. So be assured there is no EU or US car makers agenda.
jetti is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 09:52   #53
Newbie
 
autounion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bombay/Delhi
Posts: 12
Thanked: 12 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonSnow View Post
True, we can't know for sure unless crash tests are done for all models in India. Just that VW and Toyota have been proactive in providing airbags in all variants, so it seems they are taking safety more seriously than the rest of the manufacturers. But we definitely need a systematic process of conducting crash tests by an independent agency.

Insurance companies in other countries seem to be offering discounts for cars with safety equipment (https://www.geico.com/information/di...nce-discounts/). However, when I compared the insurance premiums for Ritz VXI and Ritz VXI ABS on policybazaar.com, the ABS version had a higher premium.
Insurance companies in other countries have severe liability laws to contend with. Injuries caused due to lack of safety equipment will result in multi million dollar settlements which the insurance company will have to pay. It is cheaper to spend money lobbying for better safety standards. In the end it is the money that matters most. In India, the manufacturer will not be held accountable for selling us unsafe products. Untill our liability laws change we will get only the minimum possible safety equipment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
There logic is that in the above scenario what happens to the people buying entry level cars like Alto? What car can they downgrade to? None. So they will resort to bikes and thereby risk there lives more w.r.t. to an Alto without any safety features.
People buying entry level cars will have to spend a little more. Giving up on safety is not the way forward. Would you suggest making air and train travel cheaper by reducing safety? No.
Using bikes does not mean that they are all going to die in bike accidents. Bikes also must be made safer. Use of helmets and sensible riding is required and must be enforced. It may be difficult to change the habits of nation but that is no reason to just accept the current situation.
The main issue here is that safety does not seem important to Mr Bhargava and Mr Gandhi. It should be the most important issue. It is the only issue that we should never be satisfied with. There will always be room for improvement.
autounion is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 10:11   #54
BHPian
 
Thilak29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: KL 14 / KA 05
Posts: 383
Thanked: 345 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Are we tbhpians just going to discuss and share our thoughts in this thread or can we also stand up to make a collective representation to concerned authorities ?

Last edited by Thilak29 : 4th February 2015 at 10:13.
Thilak29 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 10:40   #55
BHPian
 
torque!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 95
Thanked: 89 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Guys, we perhaps need to take a more pragmatic view towards this. The ideal way to go forward would be to adopt NCAP or similar testing standards. But it is not always possible to bring in such a huge change in one go. A phased approach may be better - just like we do with emission norms.

I remember reading the transport minister quote that we do not want to enforce safety standards on Manufacturers. We want to create a NCAP like star system and make it mandatory to disclose the 'star rating' of each vehicle in every advertisement, etc. IMHO, this makes sense. If you see a Swift with a 1 Star and an i20 with 4 stars, you are probably going to consider going for the i20. To get more stars, the Swift will have to employ Airbags without the manufacturer being forced to offer airbags.

I do feel that this approach will work in the Indian market. At least it has worked with AC's and Fridges. You don't see too many 1-2 Star energy rated AC/ Fridge in the market these days. Eventually we will reach a stage where most cars in India, except perhaps the entry level Altos and Eons have decent safety equipment.

Now, don't get me wrong - I am not implying that Alto and Eon does not need to have safety equipment. My take is a bit more pragmatic. I'd rather have someone sit in a 1 star Alto than load up their family of 4 on a bike and risk everyone's life.
torque!! is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 10:57   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
arnabchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MH-04
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 1,083 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

This was in the coming. The automobile industry is already going through a very lean phase and further "burdening" them with safety features would have implications on the cost. This would further lead to lower sales.

So, at the cost of profitability and the life of people who buy their vehicles, the Companies have taken a just, correct and "ethical" decision to force the Govt. into not implementing the safety norms.

Many lives could have been saved but then why bother. We are better off with driving movable coffins while Auto companies make hay when the sun is shining.

BTW, Mr. Bhargava should have been given the Bharat Ratna for his views and conclusion about the safety perception in India.
Profound and heart touching!!
arnabchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 11:12   #57
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,478
Thanked: 3,621 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

I am sure my mathematics is wrong here but it makes for some very interesting observation. The govt, the car makers and many of us keep citing the cost increase in cars to the tune of around 30-40k to add a basic level of safety kit to them and hence how these will ruin the market for them when sales are already low.

How come then almost all car makers keep on increasing prices never the less even in the past 1-2 years when the market growth has been low. I don't see any of them having decreased there prices or atleast maintain them. Also the government is not shy in hiding behind these excuses of hurting the industry but yet at the same time roll back the excise benefits that added significantly to the cost of all cars. They also didn't shy away from increasing taxes and keeping fuel prices up even though global crude has been falling like crazy. I am sure lower prices would have given a boost to car sales. Yet in all these cases they come out claiming the moral high ground and millions of excuses of acting in the larger interest of the citizens in the long run. But somehow only talk of safety measures is seen as an unwanted expense and swept away under the carpet time and again. Hypocrisy at its best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by autounion View Post
People buying entry level cars will have to spend a little more. Giving up on safety is not the way forward. Would you suggest making air and train travel cheaper by reducing safety? No.
I said this there logic. I never said I concur with it. Also let me go one step further. They say that an Alto might be better than a 2 wheeler and for a second let me agree to that. Even then what is stopping them from improving safety standards across the segments after the entry level hatch. What explanation do they have for the Indianised Swift to fare poorly w.r.t. the European swift. A person buying a tin can for 5L can always downgrade to another tin can costing 3L if he is not comfortable paying extra for a safer car

Last edited by drmohitg : 4th February 2015 at 11:16.
drmohitg is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 11:57   #58
BHPian
 
sourav9385's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, U.K
Posts: 436
Thanked: 729 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Well it isn't surprising that Indians are resorting to watering down crash tests. After all, isn't everything sold in India watered down? Even Water?

I can only assume that crash tests the industry leaders have devised for India, would be inspired by this video

Thumbs up if you agree!

sourav9385 is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 12:31   #59
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 55
Thanked: 32 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Well it isn't surprising that Indians are resorting to watering down crash tests. After all, isn't everything sold in India watered down? Even Water?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is how our cars are "Crash tested". Though I did read a few interesting articles on the build quality of the VW cars through some real life accidents which happened on the Polo & the owner actually took to write a letter to VW thanking them for the safety standards on the car. And also one where a certain Japanese manufacturer's car refused to deploy air-bags in an accident & they said "You didn't crash properly". That was obviously not what they meant but you can't help but think when & under what conditions will my airbag deploy!

Last edited by Eddy : 4th February 2015 at 12:53. Reason: Quoting a video hampers readability for our small screen users.
polo_ankit is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2015, 12:31   #60
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 65
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetti View Post
Those asking for proof that safety equipment makes a difference, please read Saving lives: Improved vehicle designs bring down death rates
By the way this is published by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), a U.S. non-profit organization funded by auto insurers, not makers. So be assured there is no EU or US car makers agenda.
My friend, be assured that institutes or agencies like IIHS or NCAP or whatever acronym are never charitable non profit organisation. If you study the constitution and funding sources of IIHS, you would find that they are financed by insurance companies and have only one aim - reduce insurance burden for Insurance providing companies. The tests they recommend are easily more stringent than even NCAP.
The thing is fear is a very effective tool for controlling, swaying or even skewing public opinion. You might have been saved umpteen number of times in a car even after accident, but if I tell you ( with a show of authority) that your car is unsafe, your mind won't allow you to rest in peace inside the same car because a seed of doubt is sown. That is the kind of scare mongering these agencies do.
I am not saying for a minute that Indian cars are the safest cars, but our driving styles, speeds, and road conditions are definitely among the worst in the world. Focus is required on both driving education for all and regulations. A focus on regulations alone is a very myopic approach to take. But I know as I write this I will be crucified by forum members as "auto industry agent" or "fringe element" or even an idiot for airing above views.
Carophilic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 MotoGP Safety Car - BMW M4 with water injection system for cooler (intake) air syedhafeez The International Automotive Scene 0 17th February 2015 02:52
Indian Government invites Suggestions on Road Safety Bh.P Street Experiences 20 26th December 2012 13:29
FMSCI - is it a National Sports Federation (Indian Government)? malq Indian Motorsport 6 6th June 2011 12:22
Can old school designs (not chassis) be made according to modern safety standards? petroguzzler Technical Stuff 8 14th May 2011 18:11
Double standards of Indian auto magazines need4speed The Indian Car Scene 8 7th May 2004 13:01


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:22.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks