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Old 4th February 2015, 12:35   #61
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

What makes me more sad is the fact that all these stupid excuses for not adopting safety standards are made by Indians who sell cars (a huge number of them at that) in their own Nation. Talk about contributing to the Nation’s development. And it is car manufacturers from other countries that provide safer car to the Indians. What an irony! Don’t even get me started about the government.
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Old 4th February 2015, 12:53   #62
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

I believe its plain stupid of these industry big wigs to give comments like these.

Just because Drivers may drive rash with safety equipment, does it absolve the manufacturers / regulators to ensure we are getting the best.

I would want these industry big wigs to think about their responsibility towards the safety of public through the use of their products.

At the very minimum, Govt should mandate that all car makers' base models should have an option of ABS and Airbags, were customer can pay just for the safety.

I believe manufacturers are reserving the safety features for highest model only for product differentiation so they can sell crap like Rear spoilers, Roof Rails, ACC etc bundled with safety features at an inflated price.

Last edited by GTO : 4th February 2015 at 16:54. Reason: Typo
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:04   #63
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

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Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
My friend, be assured that institutes or agencies like IIHS or NCAP or whatever acronym are never charitable non profit organisation. If you study the constitution and funding sources of IIHS, you would find that they are financed by insurance companies and have only one aim - reduce insurance burden for Insurance providing companies. The tests they recommend are easily more stringent than even NCAP.
Yes, my friend, that is exactly what I'm saying. Insurance companies and buyers have same interest - that injuries and deaths are reduced. Of course that's good for insurance companies as they have to pay out less. When they pay out less, premiums will reduce. Now, how that is against the drivers and passengers interest?
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Old 4th February 2015, 13:22   #64
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

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Originally Posted by Anand3553 View Post
What makes me more sad is the fact that all these stupid excuses for not adopting safety standards are made by Indians who sell cars (a huge number of them at that) in their own Nation. Talk about contributing to the Nationís development. And it is car manufacturers from other countries that provide safer car to the Indians. What an irony! Donít even get me started about the government.
I have been working in the service domain which is closely related to manufacturing companies and what I have seen in my 10+ years of work experience is Indians do not give a two hoots to HSE (Health, Safety and Environment) neither in their workplace nor in their day to day lives. There are many examples of this like security and safety drills in our offices which are considered as a joke (forget blue collared) by many white collared individuals, one of the highest road accidents and fatalities in the world in our country, considering spending on safety as an expense and not as an investment (people mixing insurance with investment).

All this according to me is in our culture wherein we ignore the benefits of safety as we consider spending on safety as a waste of money. It is said that a nations wealth is its people, but not in India wherein we lose lakhs of people to road accidents due to lack of safety equipments. Instead of being progressive towards adopting safety standards we are being regressive in our approach. This approach and thinking about safety can be overcome by bringing out a cultural change IMHO.
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Old 4th February 2015, 14:27   #65
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

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Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
The thing is fear is a very effective tool for controlling, swaying or even skewing public opinion. You might have been saved umpteen number of times in a car even after accident, but if I tell you ( with a show of authority) that your car is unsafe, your mind won't allow you to rest in peace inside the same car because a seed of doubt is sown. That is the kind of scare mongering these agencies do.
I am not saying for a minute that Indian cars are the safest cars, but our driving styles, speeds, and road conditions are definitely among the worst in the world. Focus is required on both driving education for all and regulations. A focus on regulations alone is a very myopic approach to take. But I know as I write this I will be crucified by forum members as "auto industry agent" or "fringe element" or even an idiot for airing above views.
I agree with you, but please answer some questions that torment me. Why does our automobile industry shy away from making public their crash test reports? I am scared for the lives of my loved ones and myself, and I want to know the crash test reports of different cars sold in India and I cannot find that out since these car cos do not publish it. Also, why do they hide behind ARAI everytime, why not have a government run testing agency so that the reports are believable. Why is it that they keep publishing ARAI mileage figures but no safety stats?

Forget the cost factor, say I buy a CIAZ, which is the top model in Maruti, can I get the safety stats there? Please help me out Sir, I really want to know which car in India is safe for my family.
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Old 4th February 2015, 14:44   #66
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
I agree with you, but please answer some questions that torment me. I am scared for the lives of my loved ones and myself, and I want to know the crash test reports of different cars sold in India
Forget the cost factor, say I buy a CIAZ, which is the top model in Maruti, can I get the safety stats there? Please help me out Sir, I really want to know which car in India is safe for my family.
We might need to define 'what is safe'. It is highly variable and differs from person to person.

Also maybe you need to stop being paranoid about safety and take an educated decision. Your search towards safety rating will help and you will need to choose the car that you feel is safe. VW Polo right now are boasting that they are the safest hatch available in the country after these results. Maybe that's the car for you.

But if you eventually get an answer to your question and buy that car which you consider 'safe', please let go of the invincibility complex that might take over.

No matter how safe the cars are, there is always a way to break it.

Remember the stories of BMW braking into three parts?

Drive safe!
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Old 4th February 2015, 14:55   #67
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

The OEMs, and I know quite a few of the them review this forum, are all sales driven and not really concerned about how a another persons actions(bad drivers) can affect the lives of innocent people. I know of people who have met with accidents because another car rammed them while being stationary and the only thing that saved them was the safety features of the car.

So what if cars turn expensive, there would be lesser cars on the road as lesser number of people would be able to buy a car and more people will use public transport if they need to. Or ask the govt to reduce the tax and provide benefits on safety product like airbags etc.

Countries look ahead in time, companies call it a 5 year strategy(Outlook) etc etc. With these kind of people in our associations we will always be stuck in the same situation we are currently in. Deeply disappointed...
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Old 4th February 2015, 15:17   #68
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If our politicians and crony capitalists have their way, we will even have an airline industry which is cheapest in the world, where every flight is jam packed with standing passengers, with one crash every month and highest causality in the world!!! We can only dream of international norms in the auto industry as of now.
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Old 4th February 2015, 15:22   #69
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Talking on this,the main culprit behind this is SIAM,who are lobbying to get the standards reduced.The number of informed people in India are less compared to the lobby.Maruti definitely will be after the government to get this watered down,so that they can sell their Altos and if possible get back the 800 and Omnis on road.Another example is the new quadricycle by Bajaj,for which they made a separate class of vehicle.
Informed people like team Bhpians, must take responsibility for spreading more awareness on standards and safety, which is the only way out.Safety is not a well defined word, it is more situation oriented.But that must not make us opt for better safety standards.Instead of looking forward we must not start looking backwards.
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Old 4th February 2015, 17:02   #70
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

This is a disastrous news. After we had the initial news of revision in road safety regulations I was hoping for better and safer cars. It's pathetic now the situation is going down bad to worse.
Mr. Bhargava has provided probably the dumbest statement I have ever heard.
Bure Dhin Aa Rahe hein
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Old 4th February 2015, 17:08   #71
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

Unfortunately, you have to act for yourself in India. Did the government ensure you were properly trained before granting you a driving licence? Has the government made traffic violations so serious that you dare not think about it? I can go on & on.

If you want safety, you have to make an informed choice yourself. Luckily, we have nearly all the major car makers here, and the choice is wide in all segments.

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Originally Posted by JonSnow View Post
He is referring to the Peltzman effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_co...eltzman_effect) where drivers are said to become more reckless because they feel safer, nullifying the advantages of safety equipment.
I'm pretty sure - and I say this from my riding days - that a helmet provides motorcyclists with a feeling of 'security'. Perhaps, the jokers at SIAM would support removing the mandatory helmet rule too.

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Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
As long as the masses buying pattern and preference indicate no tendencies for preferring safety features, car makers in India will fight tooth and nail to avoid increase / standardization of safety features and that is what has happened.
See, that's the thing. When the masses don't understand the obvious, it's the government's job to enforce. Would everyone be wearing seatbelts in this country if it wasn't made a rule?

On a related note, the masses didn't ask for lesser polluting cars either. The government went ahead and introduced Euro emission norms anyway! There was a lot of resistance from SIAM, but the government didn't care a damn. Why can't they do the same for safety?

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Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
Euro cars are over engineered. The more parts you have, the higher the rate of failure.
Sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for failure. Please explain to me how a Lexus - with all its gizmos - is as reliable as a Toyota Corolla?

The latest Fortuner has more bells & whistles than the Maruti 800 ever did. How is it as reliable?

If European cars aren't reliable, it's the failure of their R&D, engineering & part sourcing departments.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I am sure my mathematics is wrong here but it makes for some very interesting observation. The govt, the car makers and many of us keep citing the cost increase in cars to the tune of around 30-40k to add a basic level of safety kit to them and hence how these will ruin the market for them when sales are already low.car
The actual figure is less than 20K for ABS & dual airbags. It's been discussed earlier on the forum.

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
I have been working in the service domain which is closely related to manufacturing companies and what I have seen in my 10+ years of work experience is Indians do not give a two hoots to HSE (Health, Safety and Environment) neither in their workplace nor in their day to day lives.
Sad, but true. How many people keep a working fire extinguisher in their house?

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
No matter how safe the cars are, there is always a way to break it.
Truly, no car is death-proof. No even an S-Class - Related Thread (Mercedes S-Class Accident : Owner dead, Airbag doesn't activate and Court orders FIR).
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Old 4th February 2015, 17:30   #72
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

While reading this, I remembered an incident that happened with my Dad a year back. He went to check swift dzire and looking at the cost difference, he inquired with the SA about the differences in the features between different variants.

He was interested in knowing about ABS and Airbags as he found them to be the major differentiating factors. When he asked the SA about them, he apparently said "Sir, since you don't travel at high speeds like 100-120 and don't RACE(), you don't need them".

I think we need campaigns like "Jaago, grahak jaago" or "Mukesh - Tobacco Kills" to teach everyone the real need for ABS, airbags and seat belts.
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Old 4th February 2015, 18:28   #73
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Default Re: Indian Government to water down car safety standards!

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Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
We might need to define 'what is safe'. It is highly variable and differs from person to person.

Also maybe you need to stop being paranoid about safety and take an educated decision. Your search towards safety rating will help and you will need to choose the car that you feel is safe. VW Polo right now are boasting that they are the safest hatch available in the country after these results. Maybe that's the car for you.

But if you eventually get an answer to your question and buy that car which you consider 'safe', please let go of the invincibility complex that might take over.

No matter how safe the cars are, there is always a way to break it.

Remember the stories of BMW braking into three parts?

Drive safe!
Yes, there is an urgent need to define what is "Safe", thats what we were expecting the government to do as they had announced earlier.

And I am neither paranoid, nor get the feeling of being invincible, even in a 5 star rated car. Heck I know there's risks to everything, but the problem with the Indian automobile industry is that they're making cars that they know to be structurally unsafe and the Indian consumer has no way of knowing it. That sir is my grouse.
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Old 4th February 2015, 21:43   #74
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Default This happens only in India?

Is it sad this happened or worse that this was expected?

I have a few ideas which will help manufacturers and the decision makers of this nation continue on this excellent path.
  1. All cars sold in india need brakes only at the front. Saves cost and increases tyre life.
  2. Two wipers are too many. Just the driver's side will do. The passenger has no pressing need to see the road.
  3. Remove dipped beams. Everyone drives with high beam on. More visibility, reduced cost. Win Win?
  4. ABS is hogwash. Place a note on the dashboard advising drivers to pump brakes. Similar effect as ABS. Again reduced cost.
  5. We don't need seatbelts. Provide small hooks on driver's seat where our trouser belts can be then attached. Charge extra for hooks on other seats.
I am simply proud of how cost efficient and intelligent our nation's decisions are. Can't wait to see all the savings pumped back into our incredible economy as usual.


Excuse the tongue in cheek. My restraints were removed by a nation that deemed it unnecessary.
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Old 4th February 2015, 23:10   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdriver View Post



He was interested in knowing about ABS and Airbags as he found them to be the major differentiating factors. When he asked the SA about them, he apparently said "Sir, since you don't travel at high speeds like 100-120 and don't RACE(), you don't need them".



I think we need campaigns like "Jaago, grahak jaago" or "Mukesh - Tobacco Kills" to teach everyone the real need for ABS, airbags and seat belts.

I was told the same thing by VW Paschim Vihar when I went there with my family.
They had the 0% interest thing on the vento, on seeing that it wasn't on the high line, the sales guy said, you don't need ABS and airbags unless you drive fast.
I made all of us walk out from there, no safety features= no car.
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