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Old 16th September 2015, 13:30   #301
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
...You will do well not to simply spread such rumors. And until you share the reviews you are talking about, this (what you are saying) can't be taken seriously.
Rumours?!! Please read the titles to get a sense of what the owners went through. Mind you, these were few of the initial reports available on the forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ownership.html (Tata Aria Pride - Zero Pride in Ownership)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-accident.html (Tata Aria Pride 4x4: Owner's pain & frustration. EDIT: Saves 3 lives in an accident!)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-now-sold.html (TATA Aria Pride 4X4 - Heart over Mind or Mind in the Right Place? EDIT : Now Sold!)

Now, you can choose to believe this or can term these as one off instances. There could be happy owners, but will I take a gamble by plonking 15L on a product like this? NO WAY! And neither will I recommend such a product.

Lets call a spade, a spade!!

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 16th September 2015 at 13:33.
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Old 16th September 2015, 13:39   #302
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Rumours?!! Please read the titles to get a sense of what the owners went through. Mind you, these were few of the initial reports available on the forum.
Lets call a spade, a spade!!
Hi swiftnfurious,

While I agree with the ownership reviews & being a TM cars owner for 10 years now(Indica,Manza & now Storme), I believe there's one thing very peculiar to TM cars. They're NOT maintenance free. It's not like a Maruti & Toyota where all you need to bother about is the service schedule.

Having a TM car does require a bit of an effort. It requires you to look after it regular(over & above the regular services). IF YOU DO, like I have learned to, I don't believe TM cars run into that much trouble as they are believed to be. It's about the expectation setting.

The products themselves too are getting better. I've seen a change in requirements & issues from the Indica to the Manza, & now the beast Storme.

Regards,
Rohan
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Old 16th September 2015, 13:39   #303
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

The Hexa is too big a gamble to take irrespective of how good the actual vehicle is. The experience of walking into a Tata dealership and plonking 15lacs on a new model is very very challenging.

The only way Tata can make Hexa atleast look like a success is to ensure that for the first two quarters it sells it at a ridiculously mouth watering price and then gradually mark it up by 7-8% every month. For the first six months restrict volumes to control losses, but sell it under 10 lacs or so.

I know it sounds ridiculous but the reputation is Tata's own making. If it needs to turn it around people need to hear the Hexa is a good product, amazing VFM and is a sales success. That wont happen if they go in with the same strategy as the Aria!
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Old 16th September 2015, 13:47   #304
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Nice to know such good reviews. But ,swuftnfurious has got it spot on. I included the term almost or mostly in my statements because I know there might be some cases of satisfaction and good review. But when we talk about a product ,better to consider the overall picture and not a few good reviews.
If initial pricing was the only killer,then the product should've set the charts on fire with a showroom price of "just" 8.99 lakhs at later period. But no one bothered to buy it. Why?when mahindra - the so called and accused niggle filled Indian company managed to sell quite a lot of mahindras,why didn't aria go out well?? turning away truth just to support a home company doesn't do good people. I admit we have to encourage and motivate our indigenous brands but not accepting their faults won't do good either.
I was just lazy enough to quote the sad onwerships but swift n furious did it. Frankly speaking,the zero pride in ownership thread was THE thread which instantly put me off from booking the car,especially the adjectives the owner used.
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Old 16th September 2015, 13:52   #305
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The Hexa is too big a gamble to take irrespective of how good the actual vehicle is. The experience of walking into a Tata dealership and plonking 15lacs on a new model is very very challenging.
Rightly said!
A customer who is ready to put in 15 lakhs would expect good treatment in the showrooms and then a professional and efficient after sales service support. The car itself should be free from reliability issues.
Tata's reputation is now seriously dented due to various factors, which is reflected in the poor sales of Zest.
Whatever Tata does to revamp their A.S.S, sales and their marketing strategies, they should better do it soon. Else they will end up with more flops.
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Old 16th September 2015, 14:15   #306
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Rumours?!! Please read the titles to get a sense of what the owners went through. Mind you, these were few of the initial reports available on the forum.
Thanks for bringing them up. I stand corrected.
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Old 16th September 2015, 15:13   #307
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Those pictures look really good, and if the Terrain response system does come along, I'm sure it will be one of the most capable off road vehicles on sale in India.

However, we all know how even a great product can fail if the company is not taking the right steps to support it. IMHO, its the brand image of TATA (i.e. taxi cars, bad reliability etc.) is one of the biggest causes of laggard sales of their cars, inspite of the products being pretty good themselves. TATA should really take concrete steps in addressing their own brand image problems, as well as launch products at a good development pace. A product which comes 1-2 years after the market has matured to it, will not make any dents in the competition.

I for one would really like to see them make an effort to change the public's perception. Sure the Zest & Bolt were very good attempts at a transition, but they need more products and generate more "word of the mouth" publicity. I hope the Hexa will help them along with the new Kite.
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Old 16th September 2015, 15:34   #308
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
What is the price band we can expect this to be priced at?
Since this product is derived from Aria, which bombed in the market due to usual Tata sales & service issues, and may be pricing issues. Aria is priced at 12.5L ex-showroom for 4X2, and 15.5L ex-showroom for 4X4 top models. Both run on 2.2L Diesel, producing max 147 bhp and 320 Nm torque.
Just for the sake of comparison, XUV500 with similar 2.2L Diesel, 140 bhp and 330 Nm torque, top versions priced at 15.2L for 4X2, and 16.2L for AWD.
If Hexa has to beat competition, and come out as a successful product, unlike Aria, what is the price bracket it should be in? Similar to Aria, or above XUV500?
It seems the car will be feature packed, and hence we can expect the car to be positioned above XUV500, at a small margin.
My expectation:
154 bhp version, manual, 4X2 - 16L
154 bhp version, manual, 4X4 - 17L
154 bhp version, auto, 4X2 - 17L
154 bhp version, auto, 4X4 - 18L
170 bhp version - add another 1L-2L from the above figures
So, the top version should reach 20L ex-showroom by this logic.

Let us see, how Tata prices this, and how many of these combinations they actually release it!
This would not work.

154 bhp 4X4 itself needs to be priced 50K below XUV500 AWD and similarly for the 4X2 being priced 50K below XUV 4X2
AT max 1 More.

Also in this price category the OTR is about 17% more than ExShowroom.

I don't expect a 170 bhp version though it would be good to be surprised.

TATA is welcome to raise prices after selling 10K units but need to start lower than XUV 500 or this will be a Dud.

I love it by the way and will probably line up for it in 2016 - not 2015 though unlike last time will not be the first buyer....g.pig
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Old 16th September 2015, 15:58   #309
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

I have owned a Tata Indica ain the past and have spent a little over 1.6 Million on the new Storme. I have done this with my eyes wide open . While Tata Sales and service is much below the levels set by brands like Maruti Suzuki and Toyota, I would rate it much higher than brands like Ford ( I have owned MSIL, Ford as well as Tata so I speak from personal experience than based on what I have heard).

The newer Tata Products are much better than the earlier ones and are priced attractively. I find them value for money. Tata has lacked in terms of convincing the car buyers about this improvement ( perceptions & opnions are tougher to change than a product) and this is serious shortcoming on part of their marketing and service teams.

While people are quing up for Creta and S cross at approx 16 lakh a pop , they would like a Hex to be fully equipped and priced at sub Rs 10 lakh. This is absurd.

Tata should work on getting the product and service right and launch the product at a "reasonable price". They will then have to convince the car buyers to try out their products. I lot of people simply refuse to even walk into the showroom. I have faced this with many colleagues who were surprised when I decided to opt for the Storme. The one's who accompanied me to the Showroom or later on rode with me in the car, were reasonably impressed with what they saw.

Having said that, Tata Motors will have to work very hard over the next few years to convince the car buying Junta to try thei products. They will have to ultra responsive to client needs and wor had on further improving the products and the ownership experience.


They could try with having shop within a shop ( for both sales and sercvice ) for higher priced models like the Storme and the Hexa, where in the prospective buyers and owners are given a differrent treatment ( something like MSIL is attempting with Nexa).

Last edited by rajneeesh : 16th September 2015 at 16:01.
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Old 16th September 2015, 17:04   #310
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
This would not work.

154 bhp 4X4 itself needs to be priced 50K below XUV500 AWD and similarly for the 4X2 being priced 50K below XUV 4X2
AT max 1 More.
What you said is possible, if Hexa replaces Aria. Else, Hexa being a fresh and much more premium product than Aria, cannot be placed in the same price band of Aria, just for undercutting XUV500.
The fact remains is that, however less the product is priced, unless the company has a good reputation, customers won't park their hard earned money there.
Examples are Nano, Zest, that are absolute VFM.
Hence, my opinion is, if Tata is building a product better than XUV500, in terms of interior quality, looks, engine etc, it should price it above XUV500, not below.
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Old 16th September 2015, 17:18   #311
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

A Taxi owner in Pune that I know purchased a lot of 70 Aria's about an year ago. He got a good discount on the full lot which was in yards for about 15 months. Of these 70 one had an accident, two provided some trouble, now resolved, and 67 have clocked close to 1.5 Lakh km trouble free. Those in Pune will know the operator I'm talking about.

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Old 16th September 2015, 17:43   #312
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

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Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
A Taxi owner in Pune that I know purchased a lot of 70 Aria's about an year ago. He got a good discount on the full lot which was in yards for about 15 months. Of these 70 one had an accident, two provided some trouble, now resolved, and 67 have clocked close to 1.5 Lakh km trouble free.
There are several instances such as this, where a market dud has been proven to be a very reliable car.
However, an individual car owner is very specific of the general public opinion. In relation to Tata, this "general public opinion" advises not to put a lot of money in a Tata car. If someone purchases, he should not care about anyone's opinion. However, majority of the population, do care about what others have to say about our car, and expect nice comments.
In the example you quoted, the fleet owner, understanding this, has taken this calculated risk of purchasing a large number of unsold cars, at huge discount, and now enjoy a trouble free maintenance. Aria is a good car, but general public prefer other cars for the same rupees.
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Old 16th September 2015, 18:01   #313
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
What you said is possible, if Hexa replaces Aria. Else, Hexa being a fresh and much more premium product than Aria, cannot be placed in the same price band of Aria, just for undercutting XUV500.
The fact remains is that, however less the product is priced, unless the company has a good reputation, customers won't park their hard earned money there.
Examples are Nano, Zest, that are absolute VFM.
Hence, my opinion is, if Tata is building a product better than XUV500, in terms of interior quality, looks, engine etc, it should price it above XUV500, not below.
Actually this is a bit like the move from Safari to Storme. In my view the move from Aria to Hexa is a lot less of an improvement compared to Safari to Storme where the entire chassis was new there were significant improvements and yet both were visibly too similar to each other.

Having used the Aria over 60K kms seeing the review from Autocar felt there was a significant amount of paid marketing effort by the editor to refer to the Hexa as all new. I could visibly see that there was more that was same compared to new. But they have improved on all that needed to be improved and in my view hence made it perfect. But after having used the Aria Pride 4X4 this is not a significantly different experience to be had and hence should be priced similar. In the meanwhile the XUV which was priced much lesser than the Aria when launched (and hence the success) is now priced higher.

TATA needs to learn from it's mistake in the case of the Aria (which was a brilliant vehicle with some niggles) and besides looks (which is sorted) the other major error was pricing.
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Old 16th September 2015, 21:09   #314
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
There are several instances such as this, where a market dud has been proven to be a very reliable car.
However, an individual car owner is very specific of the general public opinion. In relation to Tata, this "general public opinion" advises not to put a lot of money in a Tata car.
Even though I drive a Polo myself, I have in the past used 1 Tata Estate, 3 Indicas, and 1 Indigo. Of these only one Indigo was a trouble maker, and one Indica used for my staff did 3.24 lakh km without any major service. The Estate was sold at 1.7 lakh km and had minor issues, non of the indicas had any issues.

Rahul
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Old 17th September 2015, 02:10   #315
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Default Re: Tata Hexa @ Geneva Motor Show 2015. An Aria-based Crossover!

Little birdy says :
Quote:
Hexa may be placed above the Aria, with prices tad shy of Innova. Also that a 4+2 year 1.2 + .5 Lakh kilometer warranty is being formulated ("Introductory offer"). Same AMC options though.
IMO the commitment on the reliability of the product as well as the efficacy of the ASC can be very well addressed by this. To me, this speaks volumes about their long term intent.

Given how cars like S Cross, TUV300 etc are priced - IMO its fair if they're trying to charge more as long as they offer what we'll need through the years we own their cars - the assurance of "Peace of Mind".

Edit : Was overjoyed to know this last evening & decided to share it here after I couldn't sleep through it!

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 17th September 2015 at 02:26.
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