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Old 10th March 2015, 13:45   #16
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

@GTO. I agree with you 100% about Indians hating station wagons but pricing may also have contributed to their failure. Correct me if I am wrong, but the price difference between the Indigo and Indigo marina was in the range of about Rs. 1 Lakh.

However, I dont agree with you about Estate versions being a dying breed internationally. I live in Europe and I can vouch that Estate versions are far more popular than the equivalent notch-back versions.
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Old 10th March 2015, 13:55   #17
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

The Bolt pricing can be used as a throttle to manage sales of Zest, I am told Tata's are offering exchange bonus of 45k on purchase of Bolt, while the same is not offered for Zest, this means additional price gap between two siblings for people looking at exchange as the option to pick up new car.

In general Tatas would like to ensure that the customer buys one of their products only and thus they are not worried about cannibalization.

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Old 10th March 2015, 14:51   #18
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
The Bolt pricing can be used as a throttle to manage sales of Zest, I am told Tata's are offering exchange bonus of 45k on purchase of Bolt, while the same is not offered for Zest, this means additional price gap between two siblings for people looking at exchange as the option to pick up new car.

In general Tatas would like to ensure that the customer buys one of their products only and thus they are not worried about cannibalization.

Cheers
Let me assure you that the exchange bonus is only a farce. They value your car really low to make up for that bonus. But the bright side is that historically, evidence suggests that if Tata motors offers a exchange bonus for their car, it will soon be followed by that exchange bonus becoming a regular discount. I have observed this during my Storme purchasing days.

Intially there was a Rs X - exchange bonus. I went with my Vista and they gave a ridiculous exchange value ( lower than even an Alto of similar vintage !! )

Next month this Rs X became a loyalty bonus - so you just show proof of owning another Tata car and you get this discount. I went for it immediately.

The very next month they dumped loyalty and just made it a regular discount
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Old 10th March 2015, 15:08   #19
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

In hatchbacks, the entire rear section opens up - hence the rigidity of the rear structure is very important.

Just like in a cabriolet, with the roof taken away, the doors are strengthened to add rigidity, in a hatchback, the rear has to be strengthened much more. This means more metal meaning more material costs. Manufacturing also involves stronger welds increasing the manufacturing costs also.

In the case of a sedan, the entire rear structure (minus the boot lid) adds to the rigidity of the monocoque. Hence the manufacturing of a sedan is less cumbersome.

An acquaintance who works with MSIL opines that the Swift costs more than the DZire spec-to-spec. So, MSIL shareholders must be happier if they sell more DZires than Swifts.

Very interesting thread indeed - given that this segment (compact sedans) was spawned first in India. Now OEMs are slowly introducing these CS versions in other developing markets like Indonesia, South Africa etc.,
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Old 10th March 2015, 15:45   #20
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I thought the Chevrolet sedan would feature here. I suppose it does not fall within the 4m club. I don't like the car but it sure is one of the better looking cars among the compact club.
Yeah, this is strictly a look at sub-4 metre sedans and the hatchbacks they share their DNA with. In the case of the Sail, the hatchback itself is 3,946 mm, while the sedan is 4,249 mm.

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On a different note, I just can't see myself picking up a compact sedan even though there is more value. Two of my favourites are the Swift and Brio. I am sure the sedan variants of the same cars won't drive, handle anywhere as good as the hatchbacks.
True, I love the Swift and Brio for their performance, but wouldn't even consider the Amaze or Dzire, but that again differs from person to person. In the case of the Swift, Maruti seems to have balanced the Swift's alter egos. The average price gap is manageable enough for a family oriented buyer to upgrade to the Dzire, while the money savings on the Swift+ its driving characteristics and better aesthetics make it appealing to younger buyers. Either way, the hassle free ownership factor remains a constant. The old Swift's hatch version was also the winner for youngsters, while middle aged buyers opted for the sedan (what India knew as the Esteem).
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Old 10th March 2015, 17:14   #21
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

Lot of us at T-Bhp do consider the actual need when considering Sedan Vs. Hatch but most buyers would look at an added boot at little extra cost as the right way, which is not completely incorrect.

And Tata has definitely invited trouble with Bolt pricing.

OT:What may be interesting to look at as well is comparison of B+ hatch vs Compact Sedan.

While buying Jazz I looked at Dzire (CS version) and felt that Jazz mid-variant offered me similar features as Dzire Zxi and a bigger boot at lesser price. Both are just shy of 4m.

So some one might buy an i20 instead of Amaze.
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Old 10th March 2015, 17:50   #22
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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I am surprised to see the price gap between the variants of zest & bolt (on both petrol & diesel). Approximate Rs 30,000 is definitely a eye catcher for the buyer. The benefits in terms of features for that price gap is definitely a VFM. Good marketing.
Good marketing I think it is a bad move by TATAs. It would draw prospective Bolt buyers towards Zest. If this was the case they should have launched Bolt ahead of Zest IMO.
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Old 10th March 2015, 19:27   #23
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

I don't know why anybody would choose Bolt over Zest with such a low price difference. Maybe Tata wants Bolt to become taxi brand and individuals to choose Zest.

Prices of Grand i10 and Xcent are well spaced out. Throw in elite i20 (which is costlier than Xcent) and there are takers for all three. Hyundai has done a good job here to cater to different requirements of different customers.

Price difference between Brio and Amaze is substantial as well. So definitely customer segments would be different. Inclusion of new Jazz will lead to scenario similar to Hyundai.

Couple of my friends went to Maruti showroom to check out Swift and ended up buying Dzire due to low price difference. But I think reverse is also true. Some may choose swift over Dzire.
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Old 10th March 2015, 20:19   #24
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

I honestly didn't like compact sedan segment when it started, but it eventually grew upon me. (I'm just neutral to them, don't like them)

In the Indian perspective, they make a lot of sense as they are not very expensive, not big, cheap to run and give you that little bit extra space. I honestly think that they're worth the difference. (Although the Amaze makes the Brio look overpriced)

That being said, I'll still pick the i20(no, not the petrol) anyday as it's a far better car than all these compact sedans. You do lose ~110 liters of boot space, but it can seat 5 adults in more comfort then any compact sedan out there.
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Old 10th March 2015, 20:56   #25
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

This 4 meter nonsense is spawned by the previous government's myopic and greedy taxation rule. No where else in the world there is lower tax for a smaller length car. This has made makers produce ugly compromises such as the Dzire.

Last edited by GTO : 11th March 2015 at 12:11. Reason: Dzire, not Desire :)
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Old 10th March 2015, 21:54   #26
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

The difference in prices is clearly reflected in the sales charts.

In Honda and Hyundai's case, the price gap is a lot more and hence the sales of the hatchbacks clearly outnumber their corresponding sedans while Maruti and Tata, with their relatively closer pricing of models, see similar numbers in the sales charts.

Personal opinion? I'd take a decent hatch over a pseudo sedan.
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Old 10th March 2015, 22:26   #27
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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Originally Posted by AbhishekE View Post
In Honda and Hyundai's case, the price gap is a lot more and hence the sales of the hatchbacks clearly outnumber their corresponding sedans while Maruti and Tata, with their relatively closer pricing of models, see similar numbers in the sales charts.
Sorry Abhishek, you got it slightly wrong here. In Honda's case, inspite of being much more expensive, the sedan outnumbers the hatchback by a huge margin. Brio hardly sells 1.5k but Amaze constantly sells 6-7k and is usually the second most sold sub 4m sedan - next only to Dzire. Reason - powerful diesel engine which is not available in Brio + increased wheel-base means bigger cabin + huge boot of Amaze compared to the non-existent one in Brio.
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Old 11th March 2015, 00:21   #28
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

Slightly off-topic, but since the pricing issue has been touched upon.

Take the case of Honda. If one compares the base price of Amaze top variant with City base variant (both petrol), the difference is about 66k more for City. Feature-wise, Amze certainly has an airbag & 2-Din system extra, but then City comes with its own tit-bits. Engine to engine, City is in different league with 30 bhp and 36 Nm extra. Over and above, City is subjected to 24% excise and Amaze a much lower 12.5%.

Point is, pricing of models and variant can be very tactical and no way based on an input cost + fixed profit formula. For instance, probably Tata thought it purposeful to take on Dzire-Amaze through aggressive pricing of Zest rather than taking on the combined might of Maruti & Hyundai in the crowded hatch space. If customer benefits, be it but no pattern gets established as pricing of other makes has shown.

Last edited by rsm97 : 11th March 2015 at 00:29.
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Old 11th March 2015, 01:02   #29
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

The day we go to the airport/railway station to pickup our near and dear ones, in our cute little hatchback; we open the boot (with a tad bit of embarrassment) and try to stuff those huge suitcases, obviously in vain, and then we remark that we have just shifted to a smaller car and hence the space constraint . I think this is the only reason to give the masses ' thoda aur' in terms of space and practicality. This had also been the ad campaign of Hero Motocorp sometime in 2013, that focused on their bikes giving that 'thoda aur' mileage which everybody yearns for.

When youngsters gleefully pick the fully loaded variants of the amazing hatchbacks, we still do get a very 'useful' suggestion from elders to pick the next higher model-lower variant with a boot simply because space is a requirement for everybody. And to complement this scenario (fortunately or unfortunately), the Government gives an excise cut for the sub 4 metre sedans. This is also the driving force for many new or first time car buyers to pick up 'that' compact sedan instead of 'the' hatch, which seems promising on the pocket as well as caters to a growing small family.
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Old 11th March 2015, 01:08   #30
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

I don't like the rule either - but this is there in Japan too - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car No wonder Suzuki does so well in India
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This 4 meter nonsense is spawned by the previous government's myopic and greedy taxation rule. No where else in the world there is lower tax for a smaller length car. This has made makers produce ugly compromises such as the Desire
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