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Old 11th March 2015, 08:14   #31
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I get the feeling, the i20, Jazz, EcoSport are the future of the sub 4m segment. Just growing pains, all these variants that have undergone mutation to become small sedans.

I hope the Jazz sets a new benchmark and weans away people away from the Amaze.

Last edited by GTO : 11th March 2015 at 12:14. Reason: Typos
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:51   #32
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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I don't like the rule either - but this is there in Japan too - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car No wonder Suzuki does so well in India
At the borderline of off topic, Japan needs smaller cars due their smaller size, island nation status and large population density, they have also a fantastic infrastructure of public transport and one really doesn't need a car for daily travel, the previous government myopically copied one portion from them, small cars but did nothing for public transport or connectivity. Either case, a 4 Meter sedan or so called SUV, is a aberration along with mockery by Mahindra in lowering their gc, by adding a plastic flap etc.
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Old 11th March 2015, 11:24   #33
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

2 Points i would like to make are-
a. for that sort of price difference, amaze deserved better center console
b. those once in six months trips to railway station or airport define our daily driving choices
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:24   #34
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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@GTO. I agree with you 100% about Indians hating station wagons but pricing may also have contributed to their failure. Correct me if I am wrong, but the price difference between the Indigo and Indigo marina was in the range of about Rs. 1 Lakh.
Nope, it was less than 40,000 (I think 30,000). A lot of people initially bought it as they got all that space for a tiny premium. Eventually however, people realised that the Marina's cabin took longer to cool on a hot day, they really didn't need that extra cargo space (Indigo sedan had a big boot by itself) and estates lack social credibility. A short while after launch, the Marina's sales tapered off.

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Intially there was a Rs X - exchange bonus. I went with my Vista and they gave a ridiculous exchange value ( lower than even an Alto of similar vintage !! )

Next month this Rs X became a loyalty bonus - so you just show proof of owning another Tata car and you get this discount. I went for it immediately.

The very next month they dumped loyalty and just made it a regular discount
Learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing!

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The day we go to the airport/railway station to pickup our near and dear ones, in our cute little hatchback; we open the boot (with a tad bit of embarrassment) and try to stuff those huge suitcases
I understand the value of a good boot.

However, if you use the bigger boot only when picking up relatives, why not rent a cab / Zoom car / Myles for that occasion? Would I buy an Innova if I needed to carry 7 people only 4 times a year? Nope, I'd enjoy a sharper sedan for 361 days, and rent an Innova for the 4 that I need 3 seat rows.
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Old 11th March 2015, 22:30   #35
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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However, if you use the bigger boot only when picking up relatives, why not rent a cab / Zoom car / Myles for that occasion? Would I buy an Innova if I needed to carry 7 people only 4 times a year?
Picking up relatives was certainly not the 'only' point that i wanted to make. It was just one example of the many situations when we do feel that the car had a bigger boot. It can be any instance when a bigger boot is required not because of the frequency of using the bigger boot but simply because of sheer utility. It also has the psychological factor that 'you don't require it because you don't need it, but since you have it, you might as well utilize it'.

I am not a fan of the snub boot myself but it adds a certain value proposition to the existing product, keeping the technicalities aside. Tata and Maruti both have a smaller difference between the sales of Bolt/Zest and Swift/Dzire, respectively, compared to Hyundai and Honda for the Grand i10/Xcent and Brio/Amaze, respectively, which have a much wider gap between the models. It can be seen, during the past few months, that the buyer sentiments are tilting towards Hyundai for the hatch segment (both, i10 grand and elite i20) and towards Maruti/Tata/Honda for the compact sedan segment. I find it astonishing sometimes, that the Dzire can sell almost as the Swift !
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Old 12th March 2015, 06:48   #36
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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I have noticed that the difference in kerb weight of hatchback/sedan siblings is suspiciously negligible. All that extra metal & equipment (in some cases) don't add to much. This makes me wonder if the sedan is made with steel of slightly slower thickness (low weight = higher fuel efficiency), and hence might be a safety/build quality compromise. And in most of the cases, sedan versions are India specific models while its hatchback sibling is sold globally.
One of my friends who is working here in a tool shop company that provides most of the sheet metal and other parts to manufacturers like Hyundai, Nissan, Renault etc told me that the Indian made parts are of lower tensile strength whereas the same equipment undergoes a whole different set of treatment for export grade cars. He also says that the govt does not impose any strict rules on how much strength that these materials should have and so on.
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Old 13th March 2015, 19:52   #37
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

For many Indians a car without a dickey is not a complete car. In our joint family my mother and aunt share a car so that they are mobile independently (with a driver). Earlier this year it was time for a change and my aunt said "…mujhe yeh poonch kati cheez nahin pasand…" (I don’t want a car with its tail cut off). All my requests to at least see the hatchbacks fell on deaf ears and finally the ladies picked the Honda Amaze. Long live dickeys.
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Old 15th March 2015, 09:29   #38
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

Personally, I prefer a hatch over a hatch-converted-to-sedan. The only advantage latter has is a small increase in usable boot area. Hatch wins, IMO, in the following criteria
  1. Better shade for backseat passengers. Very important while driving in summer!
  2. Much easier to park
  3. Easier to carry longer items if hatch has a split rear seat.
  4. Subjective - generally, hatches drive better than their bolt-on-rear cousins. Only exception I've experienced to this is between Petra and Palio - both drive very well. But then again, I have not driven all the new generation cousins
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Old 16th March 2015, 14:38   #39
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

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Originally Posted by dreamliner17 View Post
The day we go to the airport/railway station to pickup our near and dear ones, in our cute little hatchback; we open the boot (with a tad bit of embarrassment) and try to stuff those huge suitcases, obviously in vain, and then we remark that we have just shifted to a smaller car and hence the space constraint . I think this is the only reason to give the masses ' thoda aur' in terms of space and practicality. This had also been the ad campaign of Hero Motocorp sometime in 2013, that focused on their bikes giving that 'thoda aur' mileage which everybody yearns for.

When youngsters gleefully pick the fully loaded variants of the amazing hatchbacks, we still do get a very 'useful' suggestion from elders to pick the next higher model-lower variant with a boot simply because space is a requirement for everybody. And to complement this scenario (fortunately or unfortunately), the Government gives an excise cut for the sub 4 metre sedans. This is also the driving force for many new or first time car buyers to pick up 'that' compact sedan instead of 'the' hatch, which seems promising on the pocket as well as caters to a growing small family.
What Dreamliner17 and others have suggested do hold good, especially among the 40+ generation: Its a car only if it has a boot. GTO's suggestion on hiring a 3 seater cab for those 4 days of the year is practical but lots of families buy a sedan to accommodate those 4 days when storage is a requirement. And the sub 4m has come in as a blessing in disguise. I personally cant stand the dzire though i drool over the swift but I see why people buy it. I am not a fan of those hatch-with-boot vehicles, I would rather buy a proper sedan (I do have one) unless I know I am going to have parking challenges (house-does-not-have-enough-space-to-park-a-sedan-but-can-hold-a-hatch situation) or would go for a hatch if I like one.
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Old 19th April 2015, 00:14   #40
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Default Re: Sibling Rivalry: The price difference between Hatchbacks & Compact Sedans

My parents owned a Baleno for last 8 years. It definitely looked more premium than what current compact sedans look now. True and accepted.
Now, they live in a small town in U.P. where people do see car as "chhoti gadi" - hatchbacks or "badi gadi" - Sedans. The Baleno started showing its age and I started hunting for a new car for them. Believe me, I could not even consider a hatchback, as the Baleno had created this "niche car people" image in minds of neighbors, my parents' colleagues and relatives. I didn't consider any Hyundai car as they travel on highways more and high speed stability was a must, so out goes the i20 or the Xcent, but I couldn't consider the Polo, even though I liked it, because it is a "chhoti gadi".
This is where Compact Sedans really come as saviors. Dzire I did not consider as it looked too worse with that boot, and the light build, thin metal sheets etc, it was not as safe a car as I would like one to be. Same reasons for the Amaze, and it leaves Zest to me. Zest was amazing as a VFM proposition. The 90ps VGT engine that powers the Ciaz, the ZMA variant with an Auto box, as my father is aging now and on long journeys, his left leg won't ache now. And 185mm tyres with Alloys, ABS and Corner Stability Control, the fabulous power steering with smaller wheel, spacious front and rear seats and with 360 Ltrs of boot were all good good. Interiors were better than the Baleno or my Swift. All this for how much? 7.15 Lakh Ex-showroom. I couldn't find a single fault in this car. Looks are subjective of course and I and my family love how the Zest looks in White
So, as big an enthusiast I am, I loved the Zest and I would vote in favor of Compact Sedans.
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