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Old 19th March 2015, 12:05   #1
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Default Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Maruti Suzuki is likely to develop the next-generation Alto hatchback for India at its upcoming research and development centre in Haryana. Media reports suggest that the car is expected to be launched in 2018 and will get a smaller engine. The new engine will be a 658 cc, turbocharged petrol unit. It will replace the Alto K10's 1.0-litre naturally aspirated unit.

The move to downsize engines is in line with developments at Suzuki. Recently, the Japanese company introduced a 1.0-litre turbocharged petrol engine, which it calls BoosterJet. This unit is likely to replace larger engines in upcoming products.

In India, the Alto is also likely to continue with the 796 cc, three-cylinder petrol unit. It is rumoured that an 800 cc diesel engine could also be used to power the car.

The current-generation Alto 800 is also likely to get a Magneti Marelli-sourced automated manual transmission (AMT) in the near future.

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Old 19th March 2015, 12:52   #2
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
The new engine will be a 658 cc, turbocharged petrol unit. It will replace the Alto K10's 1.0-litre naturally aspirated unit.
The 658cc engine is not new. This is the K6 engine which is already used in Suzuki Kei cars in Japan. And they have the Turbo version as well.

Suzuki's "downsizing" plan may be:

Replace the K10 engine with K6 turbo charged engine (Alto k10).
Replace the K12 engine with K10 turbo charged engine (Swift).
Replace the K14 engine with K12 turbo charged engine (Ciaz / Ertiga?)
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Old 19th March 2015, 16:55   #3
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

The Suzuki Cervo Mode in 1990 was equipped with the F6B or F6A engines. Both were turbocharged. The F6A was a three cylinder 657cc engine producing 61 PS at 6,000 rpm while the F6B was a four cylinder 658cc engine producing 64 PS at 7,000 rpm. My question - can the Alto's under development engine be based on these engines? I am not sure as these engines are more than 2 decades old.
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Old 19th March 2015, 17:08   #4
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Interesting rumor! But won't there be substantial turbo lag at low speeds if such a small displacement engine (~600 cc) is turbocharged? (I've not driven the Ecosport with Ecoboost nor am I a Mech engineer, so experts please correct me if my guess is wrong).

In our bumper to bumper traffic, low (engine and vehicle) speed response is of high importance in the driving comfort. We need to see if Suzuki has some trick with them to adapt the engine to our conditions and bring down the turbo lag to barely noticeable levels so that the car does not end up sluggish in city traffic.


Further, any guess on the number of cylinders the engine will be having? (My guess: 2)
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Old 19th March 2015, 23:48   #5
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

I don't know the real life advantage of this smaller engine over the current 1000cc engine. May be it will be more fuel efficient. I still believe in the old saying 'There is no replacement for displacement'.

But now a days it seems that 'Turbo' is becoming the replacement for higher displacement! As we do have few hot performers with low displacement and a turbo, like the Polo Tsi or the Ecosports ecoboost. For example Polo used to have a 1.6Litre 105 bhp naturally aspirated petrol engine which got replaced by a 1.2 litre turbo engine charring out a similar 105 bhp. I have generally seen engines with higher displacement do higher speeds in lesser RPM, that means less strain on the engine. So will the turbo aided smaller engines have same engine life as a bigger naturally aspirated engine with same power out put?

From my personal experience i can say i have driven a 1200cc car charring out 90 ps and a 1500cc car giving out the same out put (both non turbo petrol cars). I must say the car with more displacement felt more relaxed in higher speeds. Now again Alto is not meant for higher speeds, so my guess is Maruti is targeting to make it more fuel efficient and city friendly. As am sure once a car with 650 cc engine will be out of the turbo zone on the upper side of the rpm, its going to be sluggish!

It will be interesting to see a Nano with a turbo as a direct competitor to this 658cc Alto once it get launched!

Last edited by Samba : 19th March 2015 at 23:56.
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Old 20th March 2015, 09:16   #6
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Well the new engine couild be based on the just released concept 'Suzuki Alto Turbo RS' in Japan.

Quote:
The Turbo RS features a turbocharged 0.66-liter three-cylinder engine mated to an Auto
The turbo engine “realizes strong acceleration.
The unit features increased low-to-mid speed torque and maximum torque thanks to the adoption of a high-tumble intake port and high-efficiency turbo charger.
Peak torque is 98Nm (58lb-ft) at 3,000 rpm, with the automaker also claiming turbo lag has been reduced by approximately 20 percent.
The 2WD version averages 25.6km/L (3.9 l/100 km or 60.2 mpg US) according to Japan’s JC08 cycle, thanks in part to the Engine Auto Stop Start System -Gear Shift (AGS) five-speed transmission equipped with paddle shifters.
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/03/suz...-car-with.html
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Old 20th March 2015, 09:29   #7
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
The 658cc engine is not new. This is the K6 engine which is already used in Suzuki Kei cars in Japan. And they have the Turbo version as well.

Suzuki's "downsizing" plan may be:

Replace the K10 engine with K6 turbo charged engine (Alto k10).
Replace the K12 engine with K10 turbo charged engine (Swift).
Replace the K14 engine with K12 turbo charged engine (Ciaz / Ertiga?)
By adding a turbo to an engine, I don't think the top speed is likely to go up by much. So the smaller cars might get better acceleration and better fuel efficiency but probably at the expense of top speed if the engine size comes down. The Alto could come with around 110 km/h as the top speed which might be okay with the crowd as long as there is good acceleration all the way and they get an even better answer to "kitna deti hai" question.

I hope they upgrade the Ciaz to a K14 turbo instead of K12, considering the already under powered engine when compared to the competition. 1.4 turbo could potentially churn out something to the tune of 120PS which is still around the same figure as what the NA Honda petrol engine in City gives. This is a category where Maruti wants to change the brand image/perception and a downsizing exercise is not likely to go well.

Ertiga can probably be okay with K12 turbo which can be shared with the YRA. I do agree that the benefits of scale can be better if there is engine sharing across the models. However, Maruti is the only company that is currently selling enough numbers to enjoy scale benefits at individual model level and hence can probably afford to give different engines for YRA and Ciaz. If they try to put a 1.2L turbo on Ciaz to enjoy scale benefits, it would justify the widespread notion that they can never sell anything other than small cars.
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Old 20th March 2015, 09:36   #8
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
I hope they upgrade the Ciaz to a K14 turbo instead of K12, considering the already under powered engine when compared to the competition. 1.4 turbo could potentially churn out something to the tune of 120PS which is still around the same figure as what the NA Honda petrol engine in City gives. ....
According to the Chinese report, the 1.4-liter turbocharged engine on the S-Cross will produce 136 hp.
It is good likelihood that the 1.4-liter turbocharged engine on the S-Cross will be the 1.4-liter K14B engine with a turbocharger strapped on for increased power and torque outputs.

If the above is true most likely they will appear in Ciaz and the other cars in the mid life updates for India.


Last edited by volkman10 : 20th March 2015 at 09:39.
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Old 20th March 2015, 10:37   #9
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Interesting news but why would Maruti Suzuki bother with a turbocharged 658cc engine for India. I know they have been using such small boosted engines to meet Kei Small car regulation in Japans for a long time but the Indian car market is different.

All these recent years the only thing with Maruti i have seen is cost cutting, compare any of the newer or facelifted cars with the older version, especially the likes of Alto. Adding a Turbocharged engine instead of the existing cheap to manufacture 800cc engine is not an expected move, considering how they try to save on parts that might even cost as low as 10 Rs. Refer to my comments on Alto K10 facelift Review.

Last edited by .anshuman : 20th March 2015 at 10:55.
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Old 20th March 2015, 11:29   #10
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

MSIL has always gained from the first mover advantage in the small car segment and they have been fairly successful in doing so.

I could see a potential winner simply by sales guy saying - Sir, just 658 cc engine with same BHP as the old Alto, better mileage and good acceleration.

Do you really care about the top speed if it drops by say 10 or 20 km / hour? In any case, even Nano can go beyond 100 kmph, the Alto with turbo charged engine should not have any problem.

Can you beat it for the entry level / first time buyer?

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 20th March 2015 at 11:31.
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Old 20th March 2015, 20:30   #11
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Nice move but I will still miss the M11a, G13b, M16a and J24b motors with their relentless torque and raw power. They perfectly embodied the performance ideals of the brand. These new turbo units will definitely feel better than the weedy normally aspirated K series units but nowhere as good as the strong old motors
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Old 20th March 2015, 21:05   #12
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

They should merely follow Fiat's engine philosophies - the master of small engines. Suzuki wouldnt do wrong by licensing Fiat's brilliant TwinAir engine.
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Old 20th March 2015, 22:20   #13
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Looks like Maruti has imported the new Alto and is testing!

Maruti Suzuki imports the new 2015 Alto in India for R&D. The car is powered by a 658cc petrol engine and is smaller in size than the Alto 800.

http://<br /> http://www.motorbeam.c...testing/<br />
Attached Thumbnails
Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol-1426870106124.jpg  

Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol-1426870144132.jpg  

Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol-1426870154579.jpg  

Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol-1426870163888.jpg  

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Old 21st March 2015, 06:43   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balajisv View Post
Looks like Maruti has imported the new Alto and is testing!

Maruti Suzuki imports the new 2015 Alto in India for R&D. The car is powered by a 658cc petrol engine and is smaller in size than the Alto 800.


http://www.motorbeam.com/2015/03/cars/maruti-alto/new-generation-suzuki-alto-imported-to-india-for-testing/
Somehow this looks ideal for a space + road crunched city like mine. This might serve as a good point A to B city car. Bring it on Maruti, i'll trade off my Wagon R for this in AMT variant. For highway jaunts, am still contemplating between multiple options ranging from an EcoSport-Duster-Scorpio-XUV5OO and yes of course the Hyundai ix25- Maruti S-Cross & Alpha. I have ample time to decide. :-)
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Old 21st March 2015, 08:33   #15
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Default re: Rumour: Next-gen Maruti Alto to get 658cc turbo-petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by balajisv View Post
Looks like Maruti has imported the new Alto and is testing!
Though this one looks retro, it is far more elegant than the current untasty Alto in India. Even the previous gen Alto had much more grace than the current one.
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