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Old 23rd April 2015, 09:40   #196
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

One visit to the neighbourhood roadside mistry and all PUC measures are off. If not this then the diet of Diesel with copious quantities of Kerosene will fix it.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 12:26   #197
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Clip their wings, alright. Theyve begun to sound like the group of retired gents at housing society meets who have a problem with anything, and a martial solution to everything.

http://wap.business-standard.com/art...0600015_1.html
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Old 23rd April 2015, 14:13   #198
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
If the order in implemented, then NGT and the Govt. should accept that the whole PUC thing is a hoax and close down that 'business'. Why should I spend 100 bucks every 6 months on a PUC which does not hold any relevance, burns my expensive motor spirit and uses my time and energy for the drama when and the entire criteria of being roadworthy depends on the age of the car?

Another effect on my personal attitude with cars will be like I will stop caring for them after the initial few years and will care a zilch after the 6th year. By the end of 10th year, I will make sure that the car is a heap of waste and a good candidate for being scrapped. Yes, even if that means higher pollution due to poor maintenance. Quite in contrast to my present attitude when my 13 year old Zen runs like a charm and almost as clean as day 1. I am still a law abiding citizen in the eyes of the Govt. because my ride is under 10 years of age.

Also, since ownership costs will increase due to this 'scrapping at the end of 10th year' rule, I will look for cheaper cars while buying one so that my financial loss is lower.
And whats the guarantee that tomorrow some wise chap does not make the threshold 5 years? What is the basis for this 10 year limit? Is this based on any scientific research? No, I've read the order and it is an arbitary number. So, tomorrow, if the auto industry is in the doldrums, this 10 year threshold could get revised again. Where does this madness end?

Whats the problem in measuring the pollutants emitted by a vehicle and using that as the criteria for determining vehicle fitness?
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Old 23rd April 2015, 17:07   #199
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Things don't look good at all.

http://www.financialexpress.com/arti...ehicles/65414/

http://indianexpress.com/article/cit...ears-in-delhi/

http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...-rohtang-pass/

http://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-ne...i_1581695.html

If this go on, one can expect my dad's '07 Innova in the classifieds in the coming months. It's in top mechanical shape, about 55k km old and we had no plans of selling it in the next 5 years.

If the NGT goes on like this, I'm sure Mumbai followed by Bangalore will be on their target list next.

Last edited by D4D : 23rd April 2015 at 17:10.
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Old 27th April 2015, 16:42   #200
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A ray of hope for all of us. Here under is a braking news stating the government has appealed the NGT for a stay and the NGT has asked the government to give their points.

http://m.economictimes.com/news/poli...w/47069518.cms
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Old 27th April 2015, 16:43   #201
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

The Central Government has appealed to the NGT to stay the ban on 10 year old diesel and 15 year old petrol vehicles.

Excerpts from the story:

NEW DELHI: The Centre moved the National Green Tribunal seeking stay of its ban orders on 15-year-old petrol and 10-year-old diesel vehicles from plying in Delhi-NCR on the ground that it would affect public and essential services.

The Ministry of Road Transport and Highways, in its plea, has said that most countries adopt fitness tests, including emission checks, of vehicle as a criterion for curbing pollution and not the age of the vehicle.

Read more at:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/47069518.cms
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Old 27th April 2015, 22:58   #202
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

This has been discussed in the forum before, but not sure if posted here.

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...609-story.html

It basically says 253 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads; average age is 11.4 years.

I'm trying to imagine, if NGT has seen this, what would have been their comment?
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:51   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
This has been discussed in the forum before, but not sure if posted here.

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...609-story.html

It basically says 253 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads; average age is 11.4 years.

I'm trying to imagine, if NGT has seen this, what would have been their comment?

Good point SLK. I believe that NGT should watch some Discover Turbo and History Channel and then see that Americans preserve their old cars like new. So much so that a brand new car looks inferior in front of them. The classics and vintages are treasure and run freely in America. And the ultimate goal of India is to be like America. But my dear NGT, why not have rules like America rather than this BAN? The moment any thing is banned in this country there are only two things that are expected to happen - either smuggling which is not possible in this case, or it is Protests which is possible as the truck lobby is going on strike on the first of May. So face the Music dear NGT
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Old 28th April 2015, 14:28   #204
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
This has been discussed in the forum before, but not sure if posted here.

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...609-story.html

It basically says 253 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads; average age is 11.4 years.

I'm trying to imagine, if NGT has seen this, what would have been their comment?
They will use that data to justify the ban on diesel vehicles. Majority of the vehicles in US run on petrol and not diesel. Even with NGT orders, a 12 year old petrol car is still legal on the road.

The reason India has a strong skew towards diesel is because it is the cheaper fuel. In US, it is the opposite - even the premium petrol is usually cheaper than diesel there.
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Old 28th April 2015, 18:52   #205
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

A ban is a blanket statement. Does not help, well, it should be the last action. What will help is monetary incentive to keep the car in good shape. The law needs to be decisive and inclusive. For private vehicles change the lifetime road tax to say 10 year tax. Then after than each alternate year collect a tax and allow the car to run, but with say 20% increase each step. The additional money collected from the old car (> 10 years) can go to create a greener environment (like growing and maintaining trees etc.). This way you allow people to hold and maintain antique cars, and or, for the few who can't switch but will need to compensate with a bi-annual (or annul etc does not matter) road tax. This will incentivize those who are willing to upgrade to newer technology, and yet discourage older cars, but not kill them totally. Similarly for commercial vehicles, they anyways pay the tax in intervals, increase the tax amount after 10 years so that they are incentivized to shift, but hold on with a bigger hole in the pocket if they don't want to. Its another thing on spending the tax money on "green initiatives", but that is a general law implementation problem with the state. The used car market will suffer, but not die. This is better than auto dumping and RTO tax evasions that will start when DL cars start to be sold outside Delhi (or other cities with the NGT rule). Any certificate based mechanism like PUC etc can be circumvented. Each car manufacturer could also be made to fix a minimum buy back value (based on a scale of number of KMS or otherwise) say after 10-12 years. This can be an incentive for the buyer to plan their ownership. However small the amount is. Its like the water bottle business in western countries. The cost of bottled water is high, but when you return the plastic or glass bottle into the recycler machine you get a large portion of the money back (30% at times). These stand a better change of acceptance than a blanket ban.

Last edited by GTO : 7th May 2015 at 21:26. Reason: Typo
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Old 28th April 2015, 20:56   #206
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

My advise to the Indian government, even though it probably has zero value to the really smart bureaucrats.
  • Diesels alone should not be banned - Petrol or Diesel, look at the actual emissions from tests
  • Make it legal to perform engine swaps to fix emissions issues and then approve the vehicle
  • Encourage manufacturers to sell upgrades to old vehicles to reduce emissions - the Indica from 1999 for example can be upgraded to the new BS4 CR4 powertrain
  • If a vehicle is prevented from plying on roads, refund the road tax paid by the owner. Road tax is collected for 15 years, banning after 10 years of use means 5 years tax should be refunded with interest
  • Start taxing vehicles on surface area and emissions - it is really horrible that they tax vehicles on price and ground clearance
  • Don't tax attempts to make vehicles greener - offer tax rebates instead if the vehicle was improved during the current tax period
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Old 1st May 2015, 15:26   #207
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/47119943.cms

Ban extended till 18/05. But as per the article the government principally agrees to scrapping 15 years old vehicles
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Old 4th May 2015, 20:40   #208
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

I have a 2005 Innova well maintained done only 1 lakh kilometers good for many more. I have never thought of parting with it as other than the regular service it has never given any problems. Now NGT says scrap the car (It will complete 10 yrs next month) even when the new Innova still has the same engine and more or less similar emissions (Intercooler) is allowed to ply on the roads for the next 10 years. My car will be much better than an ambassador of similar vintage but instead of proving the cars fitness they are imposing a blanket ban. From a resale value of 5 lakh+ (Was getting offers every now and then) to scrapping the car all of a sudden. I believe it would be a similar case with a 10year old Mercedes which at the time was fit for the strict euro norms and is now being scrapped even when a 2012 Ambassador is fit to ply on the roads for next 7 years. They should call off this ban and should check the emissions as that will only help in lowering the pollution levels.
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Old 10th May 2015, 10:24   #209
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

NGT doesn't really care about you or the average consumer. They sit on their high and mighty chairs, and try to be idealistic which sadly does not work in the real world. Sadly it seems that the government doesn't care either. It is sheer ignorance or stupidity (hard to tell which), that they think the pollution problem will be solved by banning 10 year old cars. Where do these cars go then? To the landfill? Causing even more pollution? What about the cost of creating a new car? Why don't they work on creating better transit options so people give up cars completely (like London)

They should focus on supplying clean diesel as well as petrol and then encouraging the consumer to make sure their cars are running as clean as possible. The goal is to have clean cars, not having old cars replaced by new. Instead of doing any hard work at their end i.e. fitness check/pollution check, they are passing the burden to the consumer. Delhi has a pollution problem because trucks run through it at night to go to Punjab/Sabzi mandi/UP. In fact Delhi air is the most polluted at 5am in the morning. Why haven't they build a bypass for all this traffic.

The auto manufacturers should be touting their green cars, like Benz efficiency, but its not in their interest to do so. The government should be putting pressure on them to sell cleaner engines. Sadly they don't have to innovate now, because they are the only ones laughing all the way to the bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaFan View Post
I have a 2005 Innova well maintained done only 1 lakh kilometers good for many more. I have never thought of parting with it as other than the regular service it has never given any problems. Now NGT says scrap the car (It will complete 10 yrs next month) even when the new Innova still has the same engine and more or less similar emissions (Intercooler) is allowed to ply on the roads for the next 10 years. My car will be much better than an ambassador of similar vintage but instead of proving the cars fitness they are imposing a blanket ban. From a resale value of 5 lakh+ (Was getting offers every now and then) to scrapping the car all of a sudden. I believe it would be a similar case with a 10year old Mercedes which at the time was fit for the strict euro norms and is now being scrapped even when a 2012 Ambassador is fit to ply on the roads for next 7 years. They should call off this ban and should check the emissions as that will only help in lowering the pollution levels.
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Old 18th May 2015, 14:43   #210
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Ban extended till May 25th.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/47326456.cms
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