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Old 8th April 2015, 20:33   #76
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

I think that this move is absolutely uncalled for. A timeline set at just 10 years means that if we end up selling our Rapid at 6-7 years (the normal timeline in which we do so), we would barely be able to get a price of 2 lakh bucks for it! The buyer can simply say that he won't be able to use this car a lot anyway. That despite the mint condition that it may be in! It just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 8th April 2015, 20:43   #77
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

totally agree with everyone here and specially -
1> will the govt refund the road tax which is already paid for 15 yrs
2> Would banning a 10 year old diesel vehicle which has done ~50 k make sense?
3> The resale of such vehicles in Delhi will go down and the owners will not be able to upgrade to a petrol/newer car considering they wont get anything for their current vehicles
The govt should plan on the lines of MOT and then provide a solution
In my opinion, this reaction is a confession that the govt cannot control pollution by
1> getting PUCs
2> Getting a vehicle roadworthy test
They are just shying away from doing things themselves and just putting the entire scope of controlling pollutions on the end users
10 yrs for a vehicle is just too soon. A vehicle, if well maintained will last more than that. Rather than this, more discounts should be offered on electric vehicles so that people are more inclined towards them and totally move out of internal combustion engines
A vehicle is the second biggest investment that is made by an individual (after a house), asking someone to replace it every 10 yrs is not acceptable
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Old 9th April 2015, 00:31   #78
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batfreak View Post
I think that this move is absolutely uncalled for. A timeline set at just 10 years means that if we end up selling our Rapid at 6-7 years (the normal timeline in which we do so), we would barely be able to get a price of 2 lakh bucks for it! The buyer can simply say that he won't be able to use this car a lot anyway. That despite the mint condition that it may be in! It just doesn't make any sense.
Exactly right. In fact with the 10 year ban in place, resale prices of 3-5 year old cars will also plummet. In fact I think I'm just gonna skip on maintaining my cars. Anyways it's only a matter of 10 yrs before it goes to scrap.
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Old 9th April 2015, 01:18   #79
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

We do have a problem of having too many laws and too many lawmakers but precious little being done in way of enforcing any of the laws.
The law enforcement is selective depending on the "benefits" for the enforcer, and therein lies the problem.
Enforcement of the existing emission control limits would have made a drastic improvement in the air pollution being done by vehicles.
The cars and other vehicles are soft targets and hence this kind of arbitrary directives.
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Old 9th April 2015, 08:45   #80
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

What Delhi as a city needs is a cultural shift in terms of thought around using cars. I am not sure about per household car numbers. It was pretty high even in the 90s. If someone could share the current info on that we could arrive at some points which need to be implemented.

Solutions for this could be:
- Use of lesser polluting vehicles like the Nano!! My Nano's emission tests show that it pollutes atleast 10 times lesser than an average scooter!! It's incredible. Tax exemption should be made available in Delhi for this extremely practical car

- Electric vehicles promotion like they do in Rome or some other European countries to arrest pollution in the city's main areas. But that was mainly to protect their priceless monuments. Now let's think of our people in Delhi. Can't we take drastic steps to protect the health of our people?

- Of course there's a subject of high connectivity of public transport which should criss-cross all parts of the city. sky bus can be seriously considered to address this even though Delhi has a World-acclaimed Metro system. Trust me some of my friends in Australia were all praises for Delhi Metro! It's indeed a matter of pride for Delhiites.
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Old 9th April 2015, 09:41   #81
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
A software company building in Bangalore housing 5000 employees burnt 21000 liters of diesel in the month of March 2014 alone (displayed on the board outside the captive unit). My diesel car has done 87000 km in 3 years and still has not burnt as much diesel
To put the number above in perspective for you, if those 5,000 employees had a diesel car, and drove just 1,200 kms per month (very low, if you ask me) in a car that gave an average mileage of 16kmpl, those same employee would be burning 3,75,000 litres of fuel in that same month.

I'm not disagreeing on your point of regulating gen-sets, just saying that we should not underestimate the quantum of the pollution caused by our individual vehicles, and how it all adds up.
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Old 9th April 2015, 09:54   #82
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

This is pretty ham-handed and in IMHO stupid/vested. But in some ways is typical for our ruling class, if something seems to be an an issue BAN it.

Lets see who this creates an issue for
- The consumer who has already purchased the car

Lets see who this does not create an issue for (These folks in fact are responsible for creating the problem in the first place)
- The manufacturer gets to sell more cars, instead of creating cleaner diesel burning cars.
- The taxi guy and the bus/truck will reduce the maintenance on his cars, belching out more smoke.
- The police get to create even more chokeholds in free flowing traffic and another chance to supplement their income
- The government gets to do what it does well, Nothing. Instead of creating bypass around Delhi they will just filter the traffic into Delhi.
- The government doesn't even have to create better infrastructure for public transport to incentivize less use of cars.

Considering India is a poor country, thinking of a new car as a 10-year disposable item is pretty stupid and where will all these 10-year old cars end up. In a landfill outside Delhi or maybe other towns in India. Again not benefiting anyone really.

If diesel is so bad for the environment we should disincentivize its use i.e. higher price of diesel and greater tax on cars, and all this time we have be incentivising it by subsidizing it.

Rather annual health checks of cars should be more stringent. Overall, the government should be focussed on better transit and disincentivise use of cars rather than ban them outright and move the diesel car volume towards petrol. We need less cars on the road, rather than different types of cars on the road.

OTOH, maybe I can now get a cheaper mint Land Cruiser or W124 300D in Delhi now.
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Old 9th April 2015, 10:39   #83
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

This is clearly a result of poor thought process.

If the idea is to solve pollution problem ban polluting vehicle not old vehicles. A poorly maintained 4 yr old vehicle can be more polluting than a well maintained 10-15-20 yr old vehicle.

Why not make PUC certification process little more stringent.

Here we have a bunch of policy makers who are idiot enough to not know the actual problem.
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Old 9th April 2015, 11:14   #84
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

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Originally Posted by naikameya View Post

Why not make PUC certification process little more stringent.

Here we have a bunch of policy makers who are idiot enough to not know the actual problem.
I think this new resolution is a silent admission that PUC, and the govt/police checking mechanism is (and has been) absolutely ineffective.

What does the Govt say about it?
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Old 9th April 2015, 12:14   #85
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

If the NGT is serious about controlling pollution, IMO they should

1) Make a mandatory thorough inspection of all vehicles every 2 years, similar to the British MOT. If the vehicle fails the MOT, it doesn't get clearance to use the roads.

2) People caught driving vehicles with invalid MOT should be jailed for 5 years RI. Harsh punishments, without fines will ensure such vehicles are not on the roads.

3) Ensure government delivers enough electricity to all residents, all offices and workshops. No one should be allowed to use gen-sets driven by diesel or any fossil fuel. However solar energy and wind energy must be subsidized and encouraged.

4) Mandate the government to build a good ring road around the city to ensure heavy trucks don't enter the city limits. Ensure a good metro connectivity to all suburbs along with last mile connectivity using city buses burning cng. Try and see if more cycling tracks can be setup, ponder on weather a tram or electric trolleybus service can be setup.

5) Tax new vehicles (personal vehicles including the smallest moped) heavily. Especially the second or third car must either not be registered or taxed to double/three times the showroom cost.

6) Increase parking charges exponentially, especially in the core city areas (like London). Ensure that unless one really needs to, one doesn't feel encouraged to drive his/her vehicle anywhere in the city.

Simply banning vehicles of a certain age etc has no benefits and is merely the eyewash conducted by the body. As GTO said, it looks like some car makers are getting undue benefit by such a ruling.

On a slightly unrelated note: Consider this. The so called NGT is filled up with environmentalists and NGO whose sole business is harassment of people and extortion on the name of environmental protection. Consider Dr. Pauchuri, so called lauded laureate, he drives a green Mahindra Reva, however his driver follows him with his 6 cylinder Honda Accord, to ensure malik doesn't suffer a breakdown car, and everyday this convoy moves around Delhi. So much for green protection!!!
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Old 9th April 2015, 12:15   #86
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

There is a news article in Indian Autos Blog yesterday about this.

The National Green Tribunal has asked the government of New Delhi to ban all diesel vehicles that are older than 10 years from the roads of the national capital. It is not clear at this point if this ban has been sought for the entire National Capital Region, which includes areas of Noida, Gurgaon etc. At present, vehicles that are older than 15 years are banned.

The Link....http://indianautosblog.com/2015/04/t...s-delhi-175641
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Old 9th April 2015, 12:48   #87
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

The rationale might be absurd yes, but this is a violation of an individual's right to ownership of their property.

When these people bought the cars 10 or 15 years ago, they were not told of this "road worthy life" of the vehicle.

How can any person or body make such an order stick with retrospective effect?

Tomorrow, 1 day after a new Euro norm is implemented, what if this body says all vehicles conforming to previous norms are to be banned - would a car bought 2 days ago suddenly become unfit?

When a buyer registers his/her vehicle and pays "lifetime" road tax with the provision of renewal after 15 years, they enter into an in-principle "contract" with the government to use the vehicle in that city/state for the period paid for. How can the government suddenly violate that "contract"?

This calls for a PIL. India is not a country where people can keep changing their vehicles every 10 years.
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Old 9th April 2015, 12:55   #88
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Let's do a bit of number crunching on this decision.

1. Number of vehicles affected - 180,000

2. Assuming each vehicle weighs a metric ton, we are looking at a scrap of 180,000 tons. This is a conservative estimate because the actual waste will be much higher.

3. Scrap pricing @ 20,000 a ton will mean that this decision will generate a scrap of Rs. 360 crore value. Who is going to pocket this change? NGT or the Government? Shouldn't the owners be allowed to get at least the scrap value if not the refund of road-taxes paid for 15 years?

Leave alone the scrap value, is the Government equipped to handle such amounts of scrap? Or, will the unscrupulous agents resort to thefts at the scrap yards to make money.

4. This will also mean that at least 50% more volume for auto manufacturers. So, we are looking at a good impetus to the automotive industry through this ban.

Would have been better if the Government had adopted a 'Go-Green' policy wherein:

1. It should have put a shelf life on diesel vehicles and given a 1 year window to clear the scrap.

2. People must be encouraged to turn in their diesel vehicles to avail subsidy/discounts on 'green vehicle' purchases. For example, there could be a waiver of registration fee on electric vehicles.

I am sure that Government has more intelligent people than a normal person like me. Essentially, it all boils down to planning for next 30 years and making people adopt greener technology and cars. And, the focus should be on setting up parallel roads for bicycle commutes so that people can use their prized bicycles to cycle to the workplace under 5 kilometers.
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Old 9th April 2015, 13:33   #89
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

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Originally Posted by rdhawan15 View Post
Shouldn't the owners be allowed to get at least the scrap value if not the refund of road-taxes paid for 15 years?
Why the refund of road-taxes or scrap value? When the person bought their car, were they told it had a shelf-life of 10 years only? Implementing this order is "cheating by the government". What if the NGT now says, 3-4 storied housing societies built over 20 years ago are inefficient and living in those flats should be "banned"? Would people settle with some compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhawan15 View Post
4. This will also mean that at least 50% more volume for auto manufacturers. So, we are looking at a good impetus to the automotive industry through this ban.
Well, thats a thought. Good way for manufacturers to increase languishing sales - start making sold items obsolete.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhawan15 View Post
1. It should have put a shelf life on diesel vehicles and given a 1 year window to clear the scrap.
Yes, let the government enforce a "Use by date" on cars and then monitor the monthly sales figures of the auto manufacturers. They will be "on the road" themselves, literally.
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Old 9th April 2015, 13:51   #90
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Default re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

In popular opinion, this ban has seemingly benefited the Automobile industry(maybe due to their lobbying). However, what about the real estate sector and the transport and logistics industry who presumably hold much more power than the Auto Sector. Their fleet of commercial vehicles ranging from lorries to earthmovers and bulldozers are older than 10 years and this ban affects them the most.

This ban is probably not the result of lobbying or other forces. This was necessitated as a short-term measure (albeit a controversial and a narrow-minded one) to reduce the notoriety of Delhi as a polluted city.
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