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Old 10th April 2015, 11:58   #106
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

I think we all agree on one thing, i.e. reducing the pollution in the city as well as in the country. Like most of the Judgement by Governments or agencies or courts in the past, it is yet another knee jerk reaction. As pointed out by many here, just being old doesn't mean the vehicle is polluting. There are various factors that goes in to it like maintenance, fuel quality, load on engine etc.

I think the government should rather implement Euro 6 Norms within 2 years directly, and skip Euro 5 altogether so that it catches up with the rest of the world. Also, introduce ultra low sulphur diesel Pan India. Pollution is not just a micro issue of Delhi, it is a Macro issue that is affecting whole world let alone India. Moreover, govt should also resist the pressures from the Auto Mfg. Lobby like SIAM, since I believe that It is one of the most important reason that the Govt is not implementing the technological changes as fast as it should because it will cost the Auto Mfg. a ton of money to implement such changes in the car and will also make the cars expensive.

In addition to the above measures, the govt. should also incentivice the cars from Tax exemption for less polluting cars, as done in UK, where cars polluting less than 100 grams is exempted from Tax, thereby, making these cars more appealing to the car.

Well there are endless options for the government to implement, it will just take a will and some common sense to make the changes.
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Old 10th April 2015, 12:22   #107
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

In Colorado, we had to undergo pollution check for re-registration (dont remember after how many years). It was detailed test with running car at different speeds. I think every state and every county within a state have different rules.

The re-registration cards we get used to tell if we need them or not. I think it has changed for newer vehicles where sometimes they just scan using OBD etc.
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Old 10th April 2015, 12:42   #108
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidharthg View Post
I think we all agree on one thing, i.e. reducing the pollution in the city as well as in the country. Like most of the Judgement by Governments or agencies or courts in the past, it is yet another knee jerk reaction. As pointed out by many here, just being old doesn't mean the vehicle is polluting. There are various factors that goes in to it like maintenance, fuel quality, load on engine etc.

I think the government should rather implement Euro 6 Norms within 2 years directly, and skip Euro 5 altogether so that it catches up with the rest of the world. Also, introduce ultra low sulphur diesel Pan India. Pollution is not just a micro issue of Delhi, it is a Macro issue that is affecting whole world let alone India. Moreover, govt should also resist the pressures from the Auto Mfg. Lobby like SIAM, since I believe that It is one of the most important reason that the Govt is not implementing the technological changes as fast as it should because it will cost the Auto Mfg. a ton of money to implement such changes in the car and will also make the cars expensive.

In addition to the above measures, the govt. should also incentivice the cars from Tax exemption for less polluting cars, as done in UK, where cars polluting less than 100 grams is exempted from Tax, thereby, making these cars more appealing to the car.

Well there are endless options for the government to implement, it will just take a will and some common sense to make the changes.
The Fuel also has a grade of pollution and at this time, the Fuel sold in India is BS3 grade. There is one thing in the hands of the government that is fuel refining. The government can at-least start supplying BS4 fuel in Delhi.
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Old 10th April 2015, 12:44   #109
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Innovation is the only solution that should be applied here instead of what the NGT is doing.
The decision makers at NGT have not even investigated the problem and have simply moved by what they think can get them the desired results, which is absolutely rubbish. And I don't think it matters to them even if it boomerangs. The failure of BRT was the last major attempt which has not delivered anything.

- What is the status of peripheral roads connecting various national highways bypassing Delhi?
- What can a PUC do in a MPFI / CRDI engine; I don't think that the fellow carrying out PUC on vehicles with these technologies can actually do anything !
- Why traffic policemen hide 100 meters down the junction (to make money by issuing tickets or earning otherwise) instead of making better traffic arrangements when we see people blocking all straight going traffic lanes when the right side turn is RED - not permitted !
- What is being done to the factories which are operating with Spartan plant and machinery? Pollution control boards are all mum with eyes closed
- What is happening to the availability of electricity against demand in NCR and the usage of generators?
- The Supreme Court mandates city taxi service to operate on CNG, with these new taxi apps OLA, UBER etc, taxis from neighboring states are plying in Delhi which are essentially operating of Diesel and are adding to the pollution.
- I think NGT believes that public infrastructure in Delhi is sufficient and simply by banning diesel vehicles more than 10 years old will not let people buy new cars. The purchases will happen, these vehicles will move to nearest possible region / state and operate as it is.
- There is no Environment Product Directive (EPD) in India, unlike in France wherein the authorities are aware of the overall impact of addition of new products (cars in this case). A new addition of car will have a larger environment footprint as compared to an existing one because of consumption of new material - I am sure that NGT has not considered the Life Cycle Assessment before delivering this order.

I am amazed at our systems and the way authorities function in our country !

This is criminal for a developing economy and the decisions are clearly biased and / or driven by specific group of people, very similar to what the Telecom Lobby is trying with Net Neutrality.

This is a sad state !

Last edited by i74js : 10th April 2015 at 12:48.
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Old 10th April 2015, 14:10   #110
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

To close the matter fast, can someone please challenge NGT members to present themselves for questions on the ArGo show? The "nation wants to know" the rationale behind this burden on the Aam Aadmi !
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Old 10th April 2015, 14:20   #111
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Nitin Gadkari has mentioned about the NGT decision in his interview that was published today. So, looks like NGT order may not hold grounds for long.


Excerpts from the interview and link below:

PANAJI, GOA: With the National Green Tribunal banning diesel vehicles older than ten years in Delhi, Union Transport Minister Nitin Gadkari has said the country's economic situation and other aspects also need to be taken into account while implementing such decisions.

"In Delhi, the National Green Tribunal has pronounced an order about the diesel vehicles. We respect the judgement, we are already committed towards a pollution-free India, but at the same time we have to think about the economic situation of our country," he said last evening while addressing a conference here of transport ministers from South Indian states.

RELATED
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"We have to consider the poverty in our country and also per capita income. And in such a situation we have to consider all the points. If you go by only one side, it will not be justified. For all these debatable issues, I need your opinion and then we will take the decision," he said.

"We have to make the country accident-free, bring automobile industry up to the international standards and at the same time consider the economic situation. The country needs to work out solution for these problems," the minister said.

"We have to see whether we can convert the existing diesel buses into electrical ones and then they can be used to ferry school students," Mr Gadkari said.

The NGT had on Tuesday held that all diesel vehicles which are more than 10 years old will not be permitted to ply in Delhi.

Noting that diesel is the prime source of air pollution in Delhi, the Tribunal had said the situation is so alarming that people have been even advised to leave Delhi due to adverse effects on health.

Source - http://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news/have-...sel-car-753802
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Old 11th April 2015, 02:18   #112
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Default NGT diesel ban - is insurance a solution?

So, the NGT has with a stroke of a pen outlawed my impeccably maintained Scorpio which has served me very well for over 10years/300k+km. While I otherwise have no intentions of not using it, the fact is that it officially can't be used anywhere in NCR, full stop.

I casually asked my FNG and the local taxi stand folks about how much money I can expect for this car in the current scenario. To my horror, they are quoting literally nothing! Just a couple of months back, someone had given me a very tempting offer which I had ultimately refused as I didn't want to part with the car. The numbers coming up now are much less than even the IDV of the car and are pretty close to the scrap value of a 2ton vehicle.

I am left with a vehicle that is in perfect condition which cannot be legally used and I am now getting nothing if I sell it.

In such a scenario, is it possible that I claim insurance and wishfully, a total loss? After all, my car has been rendered 100% useless in what is pretty much an 'accident' (an unforeseen, unprecedented blanket ban) with no fault of mine and that nothing a workshop can do will make it driveable ever again.

Your thoughts?
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Old 11th April 2015, 05:31   #113
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Default Re: NGT diesel ban - is insurance a solution?

I can understand your frustration. I myself have a near 10 year vehicle but not in Delhi though. To answer your question I don't think this qualifies as an accident for you to claim the car as a total loss.

ANY chance of selling the car out of state? My thought is that at worst it should deprecate the value by the cost taken to re-register in a different state isn't it?
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Old 11th April 2015, 06:49   #114
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Default Re: NGT diesel ban - is insurance a solution?

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
In such a scenario, is it possible that I claim insurance and wishfully, a total loss? After all, my car has been rendered 100% useless in what is pretty much an 'accident' (an unforeseen, unprecedented blanket ban) with no fault of mine and that nothing a workshop can do will make it driveable ever again.

Your thoughts?
The base policy covers the common events like motor accidents, theft, fire etc and this is certainly not belonging to any of those. For the freak one-off mishaps or act of God events like flood, earthquake, hail etc, the insurance policies would have additional riders which you can usually opt in at an additional premium. If you have not opted into such a comprehensive cover, they could potentially deny your claim even in case of natural disasters. What I've felt is that the public sector insurances usually covers these while the cheaper policies offered by private players usually remove some of these riders to price it lower.

In the fully comprehensive cover, there is usually a cover for malicious acts and vandalism. If someone can prove this move from NGT under such a category, getting insurance might be possible.
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Old 11th April 2015, 07:58   #115
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Default Re: NGT diesel ban - is insurance a solution?

Insurance will not be solution to this, pretty sure about this.
I would recommend that you hold on to your horses and do not take any decision in a haste. Sooner or later there is going to be an amendment to this stupid rule.
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Old 11th April 2015, 10:46   #116
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

How many people are willing to fight the legally fight the NGT order? If people are willing to pool in resources, I can look for a good lawyer to fight the case.
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Old 11th April 2015, 11:08   #117
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

Perhaps today's TOI says that the truckers are threatening to jack up the prices of essential commodities if the cops keep on bugging them at the borders. Well this had to happen as the truckers kinda play a key role in managing the supply chain. We kept blaming the trucks for all the pollution and here it is - A New Turn in the Story. Also, what our mate rdhawan15 mentioned in the previous post / comment, that Mr. Nitin Gadkari said that he will challenge this order in the supreme court and he has asked his team to prepare a Strong Case against this order as the Motor Vehicle Act does not mention a life-span for any vehicle that is registered in India. So a ray of hope for us. On the flip side of the coin, we, the residents of Delhi must also think of ideas and suggest how can the pollution be curbed as the major concern for NGT and the residents of Delhi is how to bring down pollution levels. One thing that just can be the first measure is to supply BSIV grade fuel or at-least Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel in particular in Delhi NCR which can bring down pollution to a great extent. What say everyone?
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Old 11th April 2015, 12:01   #118
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Default Re: NGT diesel ban - is insurance a solution?

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Old 11th April 2015, 12:11   #119
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

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How many people are willing to fight the legally fight the NGT order? If people are willing to pool in resources, I can look for a good lawyer to fight the case.
My personal view: With judiciary involved and taking suo-moto decisions, no one stands a chance to challenge these guys. (ego issues, you see!)

Govt. is the only party that can help by overwriting this with new laws, which the NGT can not find the reasons to object to.

The problem is poor maintenance and some manufactures still selling the non-crdi vehicles being passed as euro 4.

I know people here at t-bhp are very patriotic about TATA, but unfortunately that is one manufacturer who's vehicles are most polluting if not maintained in 'perfect condition' (barring the 1.3 mjd), while a similarly ('overshooting service intervals', used with full load or slightly more) maintained/ driven Maruti or VW or Hyundai does not fart like TATAs do.

I've also started seeing a lot of 2 wheelers which are extremely polluting and being driven without being stopped by cops. This smoke is much more toxic than even the diesel trucks.

NGT is obviously trying to show that they are doing something, I guess the members' chances of re-appointment are directly proportional to the hue and cry they are able to cause.

So far we couldn't fix the sunfilm ban, leave alone anything else.
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Old 11th April 2015, 12:35   #120
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Default Re: National Green Tribunal says, 10 year old Diesel Vehicles banned in Delhi

These bodies that promulgate such knee jerk actions have one thing in common. They usually consist of one type of people. Even in Bengaluru, some of the committees involved in suggesting/planning improvement measures are packed with one kind of people (B-Pac etc).

They see the problems only in one way. We need democratic committees consisting of people from various walks of like to go through the problem and suggest good ideas. We have lot of so called intellects who have no idea of what it is to live like a ordinary citizen of this country and they fart out such ideas.

Everyone wants things to improve and it might cause some inconvenience, but you need to plan changes in advance.

Last edited by srishiva : 11th April 2015 at 12:37.
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