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Old 18th August 2015, 04:22   #136
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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However logical or practical the offerings of the manufacturers be or the choices the customers make, the 4M rule killed DECENT performance petrol engines (Sub 10L) in this country and gave birth to ridiculous looking cars which only capitalized on people's aspiration and nothing else.
Thought of reviving this old thread to have our discussions once again. You had one very valid argument on the performance aspect of it. However, now Ford has joined the party and added some spice to the compact sedan segment.

So, point number 16 - Performance.

The 1.5 diesel has turned out to be quite a scorcher with 0-100 times reported close to that of the VW warm hatch. And then a 1.5 DCT even though tuned for economy still is better than anything else in the price bracket - save for the GT TSi. Yes, Aspire is no match for a Classic Fiesta 1.6. But it looks like it can stand up to the Classic Fieta TDCi which it seeks to replace.

Feature loaded, good performance, good pricing, looks acceptable too IMO, although its still a stubby boot. What say? Still the same harsh hatred for the segment?

PS- Segment still has a fascination for silly names. Wish they had named it Figo Ikon instead of Aspire.

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Old 18th August 2015, 07:49   #137
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

I can't help but think, it maybe the 4m rule which moved the cars (or their cost) up a segment. Because of the unscientific discounting of cars less than 4 meters and penalizing of cars more than 4 meters, a new weirdo segment got created which pushed out of the normal C segment and thus the D segment sedans into more expensive territory. And since UVs always command a premium over sedans, their natural price point got shifted too.

The 4 meter compact sedans made immense sense for manufacturers as both the development costs and the production costs were much lower and manufacturers pushed them aggressively. The development cost because, most of these manufacturers had the respective hatchbacks in the market already and they could share the R&D cost. And it is no secret that the production cost for a compact sedan is much more competitive than the hatchback it is based on. Moreover, because of our mass market's fascination for sedan, they could sell these at a premium too.

I believe, we would have seen the bigger sedans at a lower price point had it not been for these 4 meter compact sedans.

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PS- Segment still has a fascination for silly names. Wish they had named it Figo Ikon instead of Aspire.
With the huge burden of notorious service costs associated with brand 'Ikon', I don't think that would have been a good name.

Ford should have dropped the Figo moniker and just kept it Ford Aspire. Its a much better name than DZire or Xcent along with their weird spellings.
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Old 18th August 2015, 08:02   #138
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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With the huge burden of notorious service costs associated with brand 'Ikon', I don't think that would have been a good name.
OT: I can think of an entirely different reason. The brand Ikon was associated with some serious driving pleasure (especially that 1.6 petrol) and I don't think the newer Ford machines can really match that connected feel
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Old 18th August 2015, 08:09   #139
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
However, now Ford has joined the party and added some spice to the compact sedan segment.

So, point number 16 - Performance.
Point number 10 (Safety) now sees some developments as well.

The Figo Aspire provides 6 airbags in the Titanium+ variants. In the C2 sedan segment, only the Hyundai Verna provides 6 airbags on its SX variants!

If the Vento DSG variants offer ESP along with 2 airbags & ABS, then so does the Figo Aspire Titanium AT!

Great thread, CrAzY dRiVeR!

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Old 18th August 2015, 08:11   #140
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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OT: I can think of an entirely different reason. The brand Ikon was associated with some serious driving pleasure (especially that 1.6 petrol) and I don't think the newer Ford machines can really match that connected feel
Oh! You should drive the Fiesta (Global). It comes pretty close.

And that 1.6 Rocam unit coupled with that excellent short ratio gearbox was something else on the Figo. I haven't driven many petrol engines which can match it in response at the lower revs.

That's one more thing this stupid small cars rule devoid us of. Higher capacity engines which were amazing to drive, but wasn't that far away in FE either.
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Old 18th August 2015, 09:51   #141
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Excellent point Crazy driver. I haven't driven the Aspire yet, but the on paper specs for the 1.5L Diesel looks really promising. Welcome move by Ford.

As does the addition of segment first Safety features.

Does this make me warm up to the Aspire? No. Why?

1. The hatchback Figo looks much neater and hopefully would come at least a lakh cheaper.
2. I think we are getting a raw deal with these 4M Compact Sedans. Add 12% excise duty to the Aspire and compare it to the Global Fiesta. I believe, if Ford didn't have to invest on this 4M Compact Sedan, they could have priced the Fiesta competitively and offered a competent SEDAN.

Also talking about performance, Ford still doesn't have a worthy petrol engine in it's lineup considering the ROCAM and DURATEC lineage. The Ecoboost is just an over-hyped trophy engine.

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I believe, we would have seen the bigger sedans at a lower price point had it not been for these 4 meter compact sedans.
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Old 18th August 2015, 11:18   #142
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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
I can't help but think, it maybe the 4m rule which moved the cars (or their cost) up a segment. Because of the unscientific discounting of cars less than 4 meters and penalizing of cars more than 4 meters, a new weirdo segment got created which .
This isn't 'unscientific'. Carefully thought out policy to promote smaller vehicles and efficient engines.

The CRDI tech with turbo charged diesels that make small capacity diesel engines attractive on both power and fuel efficiency came about due to the policy tilt of Europe towards diesel fuel. Which seems to now have reversed to petrol.

We will get awesome turbo charged petrols at lower costs with economies of scale, the VW 1.2 TSI and ecoboost being the first out the door.

As mentioned elsewhere this is a transition phase where ultimately we will get platforms designed from the ground up to be less than 4m.

The Jazz, Elite i20 being the first of these.

I expect SUVS, MUVS, JEEPS, VANS, HOT HATCHES to rule in this segment and sedans to ultimately shift to the c2/D segments altogether.
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Old 18th August 2015, 12:03   #143
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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This isn't 'unscientific'. Carefully thought out policy to promote smaller vehicles and efficient engines.
It is unscientific in a way when you consider that it's really unclear on what the objective is.

If one wants to improve air quality, discount cars & their variants based on emission figures or kmpL, subsidize replacement of old polluting vehicles, stop overloading of commercial vehicles, remove the toll plazas etc.

I can only laugh if people think 4M cars helped the traffic situation on roads. Shaving off 2-5 inches from a car isn't going to help anyone.

The Government's job is to provide proper infrastructure (Read Roads, pavements, traffic signals) and efficient public transport. These laggards couldn't do either (For which you and me are paying money) and made the Auto Industry a scapegoat with such senseless rules.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 14:14   #144
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

The segment has been hated the most for killing design aesthetics. Time to put an end to those arguments?

TATA Zica and VW Ameo are pretty good looking cars in their own respects, and not just in comparison to compact sedans IMO.

The segment will continue to evolve.

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Old 3rd February 2016, 14:30   #145
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Kite looks smart! The Ameo's proportions/looks are far from perfect. Kudos to TATA for taking the effort to design something aesthetic within the space constraints.

On a related note, so we have the Aspire with Aston Martin front and the Kite with Jaguar rear.
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Old 13th December 2016, 13:11   #146
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Can you be an enthusiast and yet buy a Compact Sedan?
You need a family car with good boot space, safety features, yet also want a car that handles well and gives that nice acceleration in a limited budget.

Ford Aspire diesel variant is one such car which have all safety features (6 airbags) and 0-100 timings under 10 seconds. In comparison a C2 segment car like Honda City cannot match neither the safety aspect nor the performance of this ford car which cost almost 3 to 4 lakhs less.

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Old 13th December 2016, 14:56   #147
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Couldn't agree more. Test drove the City Auto - Hated how it drives, horrible rubber band effect from the CVT and also dislike the look of the interior. Also drove the Baleno CVT - same problem. Did not like the way it shifts cogs. Put your foot down, and all noise and no go. Also found the interior to be tacky and did not like the black interior. Finally bought an Aspire DCT for 9L OTR. Loved the DCT, decent pep with the 1.5L and also liked how i can use android auto or play music videos on my cellphone plopped into the provided dock. Its been 6 months and loving it so far. Did not make send for us to spend 3 or 4L on a city (& WAG was ruled out after having owned a skoda in the past) more to get a bit more legroom and a bigger boot, but settle for something that is crap to drive.
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Old 4th March 2017, 13:14   #148
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Well, let us all admit that the compact sedan segment is still in its nascent stage and with more established players betting in with big guns, this segment is only bound to grow better with each passing day. I am pretty sure that the sub compact cars of say 2020-2021 would be much more mature, good looking and complete than those existing today. The Ford Aspire, in my opinion, is a good example of development in this direction.

So does it mean that I would buy one, well, maybe not.

A compact sedan despite having the potential to overcome the design and appearance issues over a period of next few years, would however still remain confined to the limited dimensions (and Engine size), thereby limiting its utility. Compact sedans nevertheless are no bargain. They are priced at par or even exceed those of a complete sedan such as Etios, Sail etc., and in some cases they land seriously close to C2 sedans just see the price of an Ecosport for clarity. All in all, money saving, which forms the very purpose of having a chopped car in place, is put to a question. So, when I am already spending northwards of Rs one million, why not shell out another 50k odd and have a full size car? The advantages are innumerable (of course looking beyond a mere comparison in number of airbags and ABS); just see the cargo hauling capacity of a Etios vis--vis a Dzire. The way in which a Linea handles vis--vis that of an Ecosport. The leg room available for both rows on the Ciaz vis--vis those on an Amaze. All these factors contribute to a pleasant travel experience and any compromise on any aspect would only affect adversely. Needless to state, a 500 Kms long journey in a CITY/ CIAZ is much more pleasant and enjoyable (and less tiresome) than in a Dzire or an Amaze with similar features, engines and number of Airbags.

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