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Old 20th April 2015, 15:00   #121
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Talking Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

@CrAzY dRiVeR - Great post. Very thorough!

I am wondering if there was an unintentional benefit: reduction of drag, with the addition of a boot to the hatchback. Any hard data?

From Wikipedia
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Aerodynamic design of cars has evolved from 1920s to the end of 20th century. This change in design from a bluff body to a more streamlined body reduced the drag coefficient from about 0.95 to 0.30.

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Old 20th April 2015, 16:00   #122
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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Originally Posted by mvadg View Post
@CrAzY dRiVeR - Great post. Very thorough!

I am wondering if there was an unintentional benefit: reduction of drag, with the addition of a boot to the hatchback. Any hard data?

From Wikipedia
Thats excellent point.

Another benefit of the extra boot is better ride quality.

Coming back to your point, i remember reading somewhere that the DZire gives better fuel efficiency and 0-100 figures than the Swift.

Even with the Xcent, i feel the car gives better efficiencty than the Grand i10.
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Old 20th April 2015, 21:08   #123
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Default Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

I read somewhere (in the case of the recently outdated jazz) that it costs more to make the corresponding hatchback than the sedan, because of the complexities involved in weight balance, rear suspension stiffening, cost of the hatch door, the bay for the rear suspension etc. if thats the case these cs must be super profitable
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Old 21st April 2015, 07:56   #124
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Why do you prefer to pay another 3L to 4L for the Sunny? When it shares the same engine options with the Micra and shares similar driving dynamics?
I had not put cost in to the equation, just the looks. Now that you mention it, it makes no sense to pay that much more for the big Nissan.

The Micra drives a lot better than the barge for sure. Engines are not the same. 1.2 and 1.5 petrol. Diesel is the same mill, albeit, in a different state of tune between the cars.


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Have you seen it from the rear, and noticed that it goes slightly wider from wheels to the roof?
I have not paid close attention to the point you highlighted. I will, the next time I see one. There are not too many of these on the road yet. I see more Hyundai Elite i20's over the TATA even though the latter was launched some time ago.
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:50   #125
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Good presentation but the part about estates being a dying breed is not correct. Here in Europe at least on the motorways, the estate versions of Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, VW (I can go on) far outnumber the sedans. The reason being they offer more practical usable space. Europeans in the part of Europe I live in have very outdoor life and the extra cargo space helps.
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Old 21st April 2015, 15:10   #126
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Swift (16722) + Grand i10 (8856) + Brio (1642) + Bolt (1118) = 28,338 cars.
DZire (17971) + Xcent (4500) + Amaze (8128) + Zest (2653) = 33,252 cars.

We know who is the odd man(or car) which caused this debate. Brio never clicked for Honda and it seems to be the most overpriced hatchback for the features it offers(Atleast it feels so)

Apart from Brio which is not selling all other hatchbacks are doing good business.

Did the manufacturers really increase sales of their cars by giving it in two flavors ? I dont think so.
A hyundai grand i10 buyer would have bought it even otherwise, but since they have Xcent, a portion of their sales get converted to Xcent. Same with other cars too.

Other possibility is that when you can retain a perspective buyer from upgrading inside the car family by sticking a boot which doesnt require huge investment
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Old 24th April 2015, 21:24   #127
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Well I have been using a Santro AT for my city drives & my Petrol Octavia for office & long distance drives and was one among the enthusiasts who hated these CS sedans. But a recent drive of about 1000 km of a diesel Dezire quite changed all that. Practically the CS seemed midway in size and if I were to go for a SINGLE car in the future and continue to live in a crowded city I guess a CS would make sense. The larger regular sedans like the corolla, civic, fiesta are also just too wide for our narrow roads and too long ( like my Octavia) to parallel park easily.

Last edited by rxpaul : 24th April 2015 at 21:28.
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Old 26th April 2015, 02:14   #128
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Nice thought provoking thread.

Personally I would never get a CS but I see no reason to stop someone from getting one too. The only problem I have is the word 'aspirational value'(I see it in this thread as well) attached to Compact Sedans.

The reasons to get a CS should be:
i> Better family-man interiors compared to hatchbacks at a not so steep premium
ii> Better family-man suspension setup compared to stiffer hatchbacks
iii> More equipments (not always though)

Now coming to the infamous 'aspirational value' , yes if you aspire to project yourself as a family-man who can take care of beige interiors and loves cruising at not more than 100KMPH and also save money by not getting a bigger sedan...look no further than a CS.
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Old 26th April 2015, 14:29   #129
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Nice thread. I've owned all 3 body type cars in the last 8yrs, a CS with the Indigo CS, a Wagon R hatchback and a full size sedan.
I sold the CS and bought a full size sedan, mostly due to lack of good options to the Indigo CS at the time.
I find the hatchback the most practical for weekend driving within mumbai & thane where I am not assured of a parking space esp near station areas.
I find the sedan most comfortable for highway drives and office commute (where i'm assured of parking).

In hindsight, I felt that the Indigo CS to be the best compromise. It can usually fit into 90% of the spaces that the WagonR can and yet had a much better ride quality.
It felt almost as spacious as my full size sedan, yet with a small car footprint. It even used to pack in a couple of large suitcases for the occasional airport runs.

So from the practicality point of view, compact sedans get full marks from me. Will I buy one? I don't know. For me it comes down to good looking designs. And on this front there isn't any CS on the market which impressed me overall for proportionate design, I still think the old Indigo CS was a much more proportional design than most of the CS's on the market today.
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Old 27th April 2015, 13:27   #130
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpaul View Post
Well I have been using a Santro AT for my city drives & my Petrol Octavia for office & long distance drives and was one among the enthusiasts who hated these CS sedans. But a recent drive of about 1000 km of a diesel Dezire quite changed all that. Practically the CS seemed midway in size and if I were to go for a SINGLE car in the future and continue to live in a crowded city I guess a CS would make sense. The larger regular sedans like the corolla, civic, fiesta are also just too wide for our narrow roads and too long ( like my Octavia) to parallel park easily.
I believe that for most people this is the reason for buying a CS rather than "status". Also not everyone has 2 parking spots, esp. those living in inner city or older apartments. In many places, one compact hatchback was such a squeeze.
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Old 27th April 2015, 13:40   #131
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

I think of myself as a driving enthusiast, I hated Compact Sedans, till I bought the Petrol Tata Zest

Brilliant responsive engine, drives very well around curves & great suspension. Very well designed frame too, doesnt feel like a boot stuck onto a hatchback at all.
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Old 29th April 2015, 19:05   #132
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Default Re: Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

India is a very diverse country and the reason behind buying a CS can vary from person to person. It could be utility for some, status symbol for others. However, in my opinion, status symbol/owning a big car is an all time favourite dream of us Indians.

I believe that the manufacturers have very well gauged the mentality of Indian consumers. It is a known fact that sedans have always been a status symbol in India right from the days of Contessa and Maruti 1000. With the Honda Citys and Accents (now Verna from the Hyundai stable) priced a lot more than it used to be, manufacturers decide to bring back the 'sedan' within the common man's reach by introducing the CS segment. And Bazingaa!!! Its a hit. It had to be because hatchback are getting expensive and 'sedans' are becoming cheaper and now people can buy the 'big car' for less money.

Personally, I would never buy a CS. I would anyday prefer an i20 to an Xcent. Reason being,
1. Ugly looks
2. Poor interiors
3. lack of features
4. Performance is not that great either

Last edited by Pancham : 29th April 2015 at 19:14.
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Old 29th April 2015, 20:47   #133
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The problem with the indian market is, the available premium hatches arent good enough. The polo and punto are tiny in size. The only car which has enough rear space, is the i20. And, coming from a family of hardcore drivers, nobody was convinced on the dead light steering of the i20 petrol( yes strictly petrolheads).. Otherwise wouldve ended up with 2 i20 astas in different colors. Instead ended up with a Honda Amaze, thanks to the sorted engine and comfortable seating, and a preowned 2014 vento petrol..
I was someone strictly against a CS, but practicality and lack of options made me go there. I wanted to wait for launch of the jazz, but the uncertainty over launch made me go for the amaze.
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Old 30th April 2015, 09:49   #134
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Originally Posted by Pancham View Post
India is a very diverse country and the reason behind buying a CS can vary from person to person. It could be utility for some, status symbol for others. However, in my opinion, status symbol/owning a big car is an all time favourite dream of us Indians.

I believe that the manufacturers have very well gauged the mentality of Indian consumers. It is a known fact that sedans have always been a status symbol in India right from the days of Contessa and Maruti 1000. With the Honda Citys and Accents (now Verna from the Hyundai stable) priced a lot more than it used to be, manufacturers decide to bring back the 'sedan' within the common man's reach by introducing the CS segment. And Bazingaa!!! Its a hit. It had to be because hatchback are getting expensive and 'sedans' are becoming cheaper and now people can buy the 'big car' for less money.

Personally, I would never buy a CS. I would anyday prefer an i20 to an Xcent. Reason being,
1. Ugly looks
2. Poor interiors
3. lack of features
4. Performance is not that great either

Please check in Point No. 2&3. Xcent has best in class interiors and is feature laden.

When I bought my xcent as second car in last August, i20 was just launched and I too was bowled over. But lack of auto option forced me to stick to Xcent Auto version. So far it has been a good experience and no reason to complain.

I wonder what made Hyundai not launch auto version of i20. They could have easily sweeped sub 10L auto hatch market.
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Old 30th April 2015, 11:46   #135
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Default Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!

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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Please check in Point No. 2&3. Xcent has best in class interiors and is feature laden.

When I bought my xcent as second car in last August, i20 was just launched and I too was bowled over. But lack of auto option forced me to stick to Xcent Auto version. So far it has been a good experience and no reason to complain.

I wonder what made Hyundai not launch auto version of i20. They could have easily sweeped sub 10L auto hatch market.

I own an i20 so I know how good hyundai is with features and interiors. I gave a general view for all CS.

Looks are always subjective. In my opinion xcent might not qualify for pt. 2 and 3 but it definitely does for pt. 1.

Auto version of i20 would have been priced at 9 and close to 10 lakes for petrol and diesel respectively. Also, the previous auto version has failed as well. Maybe that's why they are not too keen to bring the auto transmission.
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