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Old 15th April 2015, 21:43   #1
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Default Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

Source: Autocar India
Link: http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ia-394473.aspx
Quote:
Maruti is already known for making some of the most fuel-efficient cars in India. The car maker is now looking at going a step further in the quest for better fuel efficiency by introducing the idling-stop feature in some of its models. This feature is available in Suzuki offerings internationally. The idling-stop feature is basically the same stop-start function that is seen in much higher-priced vehicles.
Further, the idling-stop system will come with a new feature known as Eco Cool, which will keep the cabin cool even while the engine is shut.
Wagon R would be the first car from the Maruti stable to get this system equipped, which will help the model to get an improved mileage of about 2-3 kmpl than the current one.

Last edited by rajeev k : 15th April 2015 at 22:01.
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Old 15th April 2015, 22:50   #2
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Default Maruti may bring idling-stop tech in India

Mahindra Scorpio, xuv, xylo and quanto have had this feature for quite a few years - called micro hybrid or start-stop technology.

The Eco cool is something new though and am curious to know how this works..

Last edited by deep_bang : 15th April 2015 at 22:52.
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Old 16th April 2015, 06:53   #3
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Default re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

Suzuki's Eco-Cool tech description from their 'Green Technology' page:

The air-conditioner unit contains a freezable substance that is frozen by the cold air emitted by the unit. When the Engine Auto Stop Start System shuts down the engine and the climate-control system switches to fan-only operation, the air blown by the fan passes over the freezable substance on its way to the cabin. The cool air keeps occupants comfortable. And by limiting the extent to which the cabin temperature rises, it helps to minimize engine restarts and fuel consumption.

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Old 16th April 2015, 09:51   #4
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Default re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

Sounds like real innovation by Maruti. Its amazing how simple and practical this sounds. Seems like a low cost yet highly effective solution in reducing pollution, increasing fuel efficiency, and with no discomfort to the passengers.

Way to go Maruti Suzuki, and its appreciated that they are thinking of launching this on a low cost offering like the Wagon R. Hope this succeeds and sees greater adoption across markets.
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Old 16th April 2015, 10:47   #5
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Default re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

It is easier for manufacturers to go for a electric air-conditioner, just like the lights, should be run off a battery and the battery charged by an alternator. If this is in place, one needn't switch on the engine to run the air-conditioner.
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Old 16th April 2015, 11:26   #6
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Default re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
It is easier for manufacturers to go for a electric air-conditioner, just like the lights, should be run off a battery and the battery charged by an alternator. If this is in place, one needn't switch on the engine to run the air-conditioner.
In practice, this is difficult to do - an electric A/C requires a heavy, expensive electric motor to run the compressor. This would require a much larger battery to supply power and consequently a larger alternator. All of this adds cost and weight, requires more space in the engine bay and makes the car more complex and more likely to fail.
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Old 16th April 2015, 11:29   #7
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Default re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Suzuki's Eco-Cool tech description from their 'Green Technology' page:

The air-conditioner unit contains a freezable substance that is frozen by the cold air emitted by the unit. When the Engine Auto Stop Start System shuts down the engine and the climate-control system switches to fan-only operation, the air blown by the fan passes over the freezable substance on its way to the cabin. The cool air keeps occupants comfortable. And by limiting the extent to which the cabin temperature rises, it helps to minimize engine restarts and fuel consumption.

Source
This is similar to my Samsung fridge which has a blue substance in a container in the freezer that slowly absorbs heat and melts during a power failure. This helps keep foods frozen much longer than in a normal freezer.
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Old 16th April 2015, 14:16   #8
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

Must say that eco-cool tech is pretty....well, cool. One of the two major disadvantages of a start/stop system is losing the air-conditioner when the engine switches off. Imagine sitting in the sweltering heat!

Won't do anything to the unnecessary jerk & movement felt when the engine switches off / on though. Personally, I find it annoying and can never live with such a system.

Of course, the mass market won't mind. Anything that saves fuel is welcome. Indians have been manually implementing the start / stop system for decades .
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Old 16th April 2015, 14:40   #9
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Won't do anything to the unnecessary jerk & movement felt when the engine switches off / on though. Personally, I find it annoying and can never live with such a system.
GTO, I have never driven any of the Indian cars with idle-stop system (Mahindra Scorpio for example), and therefore, have no idea how good / bad the jerk felt in the cabin is. Recently, I got to drive around in a Gen 7 Golf TSi equipped with idle-stop, and I was really amazed by the seamlessness / silence in which the whole engine cut off and came back on. With the level of refinement (or lack of, to be precise) of the K10B engine, may be, it will not be so seamless.

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Of course, the mass market won't mind. Anything that saves fuel is welcome. Indians have been manually implementing the start / stop system for decades .
Even I had this habit of manually doing the start / stop at signals in Bangalore traffic, while driving my Ritz. Generally, I follow a rule that if the timer at the signal has at least 45 seconds left, I would switch the engine off. After moving to Japan though, I found it difficult as there are no timers at any of the signals. I was advised by (knowledgeable) seniors to stop switching the engine off at signals on my 2007 Honda Odyssey, as it would do more harm (battery, starter motor conking off) than good (better fuel efficiency). Moreover, there are rarely any signals here which stay red for more than 60 seconds.

I have a 80km daily commute, and after the first tankful, stopped the practice of manual start-stop. Surprisingly enough, my fuel efficiency improved by around 15% (keeping all other driving habits / conditions constant). The basic idea is, in cars which are designed with start-stop system from the drawing board, the affected components (battery, starter motor, fuel pump, aircon, other ECUs, electrical accessories) are designed to undergo many more cycles of ON-OFF operation (and voltage fluctuations) during the life-time of the car. This is not the case for a car which was designed in the pre-idle stop days.

Last edited by Viju : 16th April 2015 at 14:43. Reason: Correcting typos
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Old 16th April 2015, 15:27   #10
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by Motard_Blr View Post
In practice, this is difficult to do - an electric A/C requires a heavy, expensive electric motor to run the compressor. This would require a much larger battery to supply power and consequently a larger alternator. All of this adds cost and weight, requires more space in the engine bay and makes the car more complex and more likely to fail.
Not today in this time and age. Boeing has managed to put in electric airconditioning and pressurization in their 787 dreamliner airplane. If a 300 seat airplane can have electric air conditioning and pressurization a small stamp sized hatchback can have it too. With electronics and computers, there are highly efficient motor generators which can do the job. Why even the humble Reva has electric air conditioning.
What Maruti has done is a cut price job which is better used to cool vegetables in a fridge, instead of a smart solution.
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Old 16th April 2015, 16:35   #11
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Not today in this time and age. Boeing has managed to put in electric airconditioning and pressurization in their 787 dreamliner airplane. If a 300 seat airplane can have electric air conditioning and pressurization a small stamp sized hatchback can have it too. With electronics and computers, there are highly efficient motor generators which can do the job. Why even the humble Reva has electric air conditioning.
What Maruti has done is a cut price job which is better used to cool vegetables in a fridge, instead of a smart solution.
The Reva doesn't have a choice - it doesn't have an IC engine running continuously. I'm sure Maruti could do an all electric setup but at what cost? Would people pay a premium for such technology? It may be vegetable cooling technology but it's a very smart use of technology. Remember, India is all about jugaad (+ve connotations)!
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Old 16th April 2015, 16:57   #12
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Recently, I got to drive around in a Gen 7 Golf TSi equipped with idle-stop
The Golf must be equipped with the BlueMotion tech. The only VAG car sold in India which had the BlueMotion tech is (or was) the Passat B7 - it had the start-stop feature when the parking brake is engaged or the gear is set to P.

Good to see the features on high-end cars trickling down to the mass market vehicles. If this gets implemented well, this will save fuel and reduce emissions.
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Old 16th April 2015, 17:05   #13
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by Motard_Blr View Post
The Reva doesn't have a choice - it doesn't have an IC engine running continuously. I'm sure Maruti could do an all electric setup but at what cost? Would people pay a premium for such technology? It may be vegetable cooling technology but it's a very smart use of technology. Remember, India is all about jugaad (+ve connotations)!
That's precisely why the technology would not work. Reasons being
1) Fridges don't stay under hot sun outside
2) Fridges are airtight or almost airtight
3) Fridges maintain temperature between 10-16 degrees centigrade unlike a car ac

A car will heat up within a minute of the air conditioning switched off, because of lack of cooling, heat from the exterior and cold air escaping the car.

Unlike the Reva, Maruti being a mass produced car can easily absorb the cost within the price or price it slightly higher, if they want to. But knowing them, they would not even add seat belts unless it is mandatory
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Old 17th April 2015, 06:48   #14
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
The Golf must be equipped with the BlueMotion tech. The only VAG car sold in India which had the BlueMotion tech is (or was) the Passat B7 - it had the start-stop feature when the parking brake is engaged or the gear is set to P.
Ganesh, yes, you are right, it had a BlueMotion badge on it. In the Golf though (TSi DSG), without even shifting to N or P, the engine would cut off (I mean, in D itself) as long as the brake pedal is pressed as the required minimum time-duration at 0 kph is achieved. The moment the brake pedal is released, the engine would restart. This seems to be a more effective way to enhance F.E. I am sure they refine the control logic as the technology evolves.

Coming back to the topic of discussion, I guess the added cost of idle stop tech will come down if a high-volume seller like MSIL can equip it's mass-market models with the tech. In Japan though, SMC equips only the higher variants of a model with idle stop. I fear that MSIL may follow the same strategy to keep the cost of the base L variants as low as possible.
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Old 17th April 2015, 09:41   #15
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Default Re: Maruti to introduce idling start/stop tech to increase fuel economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Further, the idling-stop system will come with a new feature known as Eco Cool, which will keep the cabin cool even while the engine is shut.
Wagon R would be the first car from the Maruti stable to get this system equipped, which will help the model to get an improved mileage of about 2-3 kmpl than the current one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Suzuki's Eco-Cool tech description from their 'Green Technology' page:

The air-conditioner unit contains a freezable substance that is frozen by the cold air emitted by the unit. When the Engine Auto Stop Start System shuts down the engine and the climate-control system switches to fan-only operation, the air blown by the fan passes over the freezable substance on its way to the cabin. The cool air keeps occupants comfortable. And by limiting the extent to which the cabin temperature rises, it helps to minimize engine restarts and fuel consumption.

Source
Start-Stop tech is nothing new, agreed. But given the scale at which Maruti sells, if they manage to fit all cars with such a system there could be substantial savings in fuel bills.

The Eco-Cool system is interesting. It's like keeping a big gel pack in the cabin to keep the temp low once the AC shuts off. Genius.
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