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Old 17th May 2015, 09:23   #61
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Here's another video showing an escape tactic that was shared with us by the Hubert Ebner folks in a training. Not sure if it has been tried on modern indian cars, but is worth a shot!
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Old 17th May 2015, 10:09   #62
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by malgudi View Post
Very Sad and unfortunate incident. While the reason needs investigation, As a safety Tip - If your car has removable headrest, remove that and use the steel rod of the headrest to break the window glass. Also do carry a Scissor in dashboard just in case you need to cut the seat belt.
Sad incident.May the departed soul R.I.P.
Better to keep a Multi-functional Car Safety Tool marketed by Safetykart.com who deal in Car safety products.It has a Seat Belt cutter, Hammer to break glass during such emergencies apart from Siren etc. Online cost appears to be reasonable.Essential life saver in emergencies.
Please checkout https://www.safetykart.com/emergency...fety-tool.html
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Old 17th May 2015, 12:39   #63
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
Even I had heard this in many articles but not sure of it since the glass is a toughened one and many require a sharper object to break it.

Alternatively you can try opening the rear hatch door in case of hatchback. At least my Jazz has a small rectangle plastic cover which can be removed and there is a steel cable that you can pull to open the hatch door. I know this might not be common on all cars. But at least we can explore which all cars have it and report here.

that is another point for hatchback(over sub 4m sedan) and especially Jazz
Hi, can you explain this with Pics if possible.
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Old 17th May 2015, 15:44   #64
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post
One thing that comes to my mind is why are so many cars getting on fire recently. People are using cars for over a century now and even if I let go of those early days, we are using gasoline engines for more that half a century. So why all of a sudden this particular issue is cropping up
Main reason = The Internet!

In less than 60 seconds, you can publish pics, the location and other details of a car catching fire. Wasn't the case before. No newspaper would care about a car catching fire in Timbuctoo.

It's a different matter that large advertisers (read = auto companies) could silence traditional media in a way that they can't the internet.

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Originally Posted by yogesh.janghel View Post
Hi, can you explain this with Pics if possible.
Looks like he's talking of a simple plastic cover. Open it, pull on the locking cable and the hatch opens.

Some cars today have standard unlocking levers on the tail-gate. Here's one from the Datsun Go:
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Old 17th May 2015, 23:34   #65
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

In the more modern cars, even the latest Tata cars and Hyundai cars, apart from giving mechanical over-rides on all the doors, they have a feature called as "single pull override". This essentially means that, the driver need not go through the process of unlocking the door lock (mechanically or via switch) rather he/she has to just pull the Inside Door Handle to directly unlatch the door.
This can come in very handy in panic situations, and may have saved the person in this very very unfortunate event.
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Old 18th May 2015, 08:07   #66
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by Sac View Post
In the more modern cars, even the latest Tata cars and Hyundai cars, apart from giving mechanical over-rides on all the doors, they have a feature called as "single pull override". This essentially means that, the driver need not go through the process of unlocking the door lock (mechanically or via switch) rather he/she has to just pull the Inside Door Handle to directly unlatch the door.
I agree for this feature in use during an emergency situation. BUT isn't it highly dangerous if the passenger (read child) yanks the door handle and the door opens! What will be situation then? (OR am I missing something here?)

IMO, haven't been in a car that allows "single pull override" till now! Can I get any examples of cars where this feature is provided?
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Old 18th May 2015, 08:30   #67
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

TataTata Bolt , Zest, Hyundai i20, grand i10
and mind you this feature is only on the driver side so no chance of any passenger yanking the door open accidently.
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Old 18th May 2015, 08:56   #68
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by Sac View Post
TataTata Bolt , Zest, Hyundai i20, grand i10
and mind you this feature is only on the driver side so no chance of any passenger yanking the door open accidently.
Thanks for the clarification.

Even the drivers door facility is a danger IMO.
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Old 18th May 2015, 13:24   #69
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by Sac View Post
In the more modern cars, ..... they have a feature called as "single pull override". This essentially means that, the driver need not go through the process of unlocking the door lock (mechanically or via switch) rather he/she has to just pull the Inside Door Handle to directly unlatch the door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
IMO, haven't been in a car that allows "single pull override" till now! Can I get any examples of cars where this feature is provided?
My Honda City has this feature. If you need to get down from the drivers seat, you don't have to unlock the car first. Just pull the door lever and the door will open. Although I don't know whether it has any electromechanical system or not and I'm not sure if it will work the same way in case of, God forbid, a fire.
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Old 18th May 2015, 14:26   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree for this feature in use during an emergency situation. BUT isn't it highly dangerous if the passenger (read child) yanks the door handle and the door opens! What will be situation then? (OR am I missing something here?)

IMO, haven't been in a car that allows "single pull override" till now! Can I get any examples of cars where this feature is provided?
Skoda superb has this feature. Actually there is no lock on the rear doors. The only way to lock rear doors is to lock from the drivers door.. and the pulling the lever on any of the 4 doors overrides and opens the door. Initially i found it a lil scary though
Moreover for kids safety there is always the option of childlock present in all the cars.
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Old 18th May 2015, 16:52   #71
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree for this feature in use during an emergency situation.
This can indeed be of help in an emergency situation, provided the manual override feature is present (and deadlocks are also absent). There is only one way for the end user to check if the manual override is present, and that is by disconnecting the car's battery and testing it by trying to open locked doors from the inside.

The way it functions in the old i20* is that if one pulls open the front inside door handles (on either front door), then all doors unlock, with the manual lock-unlock lever on each door visibly shifting to the unlocked position.

My take is that pulling either front door handle prods the central locking system to unlock all doors. So I suspect that if there is no power, then the doors wouldn't unlock.

However, as a back-up, an individual manual lock-unlock lever is physically present on each door. As long as this operates a mechanical lock (with electrical assist), then it should function even in the absence of power (for whatever reason) - i.e. the manual lock-unlock lever would allow the unlocking of each door individually, and pulling the inside door handle would open that door.

I repeat, the only practical way end users (like us) can test the safety and soundness of the door locking mechanism is by performing the "battery disconnect test". We may think or imagine that our car has got an emergency exit mechanism, but unless we test it using the only sure-fire and easy method available to us, we can never be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
BUT isn't it highly dangerous if the passenger (read child) yanks the door handle and the door opens! What will be situation then? (OR am I missing something here?)

IMO, haven't been in a car that allows "single pull override" till now! Can I get any examples of cars where this feature is provided?
I believe most cars that lack the physical lock-unlock lever on each door have the single pull override mechanism for that door, while the driver's inside door handle may or may not unlock all doors using the central locking mechanism. Some cars may even have the ability to configure the driver's door handle mechanism or remote key according to the owner's preference.

In addition to this, even on cars with the physical lock-unlock lever present on each door, the single pull override mechanism may be present on the driver's door handle (and maybe the front passenger door handle as well), but not the rear doors.

All this may sound confusing. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have to keep repeating that the door locking mechanism on one's car can be assumed to be kind of safe, if and only if it passes the "battery disconnect test".

Everything else is simply irrelevant. Single pull override, master switch for central locking, true keyless entry, presence/absence of door lock-unlock lever on each door, automatic door unlocking feature - all these concepts get reduced to the role of irrelevance in an emergency, when the mind barely functions and the body resorts to reflex action to get out quickly.

If one can open a locked car from the inside after the battery has been disconnected, then it has a reasonably safe mechanism that would most likely work and allow one to open the doors in an emergency situation.

The "battery disconnect test" is the acid test for any door locking mechanism, IMHO.

I must add that even if a car passes the "battery disconnect test" with flying colours, it wouldn't hurt to always keep a window-breaker, a seatbelt-cutter and a fire extinguisher handy in every car. Better to be safe than sorry!

-------
Note:

* - On some Hyundai cars (such as the old i20, Grand i10 and Xcent), the true keyless entry system has request sensors on both front doors. On some other Hyundais (such as the new i20 and facelifted Verna), the request sensor is present only on the driver's door and not on the front passenger door. I believe the central locking system (including the single pull override) may be configured slightly differently in the latter, when compared to the former.

Last edited by RSR : 18th May 2015 at 17:10.
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Old 18th May 2015, 19:55   #72
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

^^ In my Alto's MGA central locking, all the doors can be individually opened manually, though pulling the driver side lever will unlock all the doors. Also to prevent a child from accidentally opening the lock, I suppose one can engage the child lock present in the rear doors before starting out.

I am yet to do the battery disconnect test suggested by RSR, though the MSM chaps claim the doors will open even when the power is off.
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Old 19th May 2015, 01:32   #73
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Folks, please be careful in case you're planning to disconnect your car's battery to test the locking mechanism, or for any other reason. Fiddling with a car's battery can turn out to be dangerous if it's not done the right way.

There is a procedure to be followed, and a correct sequence in which things should be performed. If you're not sure, please go through this step-by-step guide on how to disconnect and reconnect a car's battery:

http://www.wikihow.com/Disconnect-a-Car-Battery

-------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I am yet to do the battery disconnect test suggested by RSR, though the MSM chaps claim the doors will open even when the power is off.
I hope the MSM chaps are correct! That's how it should be, since they merely added electrical actuators to the mechanical locks on each door. A sensible design shouldn't prevent the mechanical functioning of the individual door locks even when power is cut off.

Last edited by RSR : 19th May 2015 at 01:37.
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Old 19th May 2015, 16:41   #74
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
There is a set point in EVERY fuel tank called as 'Fuel supply cut-off when the tank reaches the Auto Lock point'.

In this case the fuel is filled only till such point that there is a free board in the tank for expansion and movement.

It is good sense to fill fuel ONLY till auto-lock to avoid any issues and overflow of the excessive fuel.

EDIT:

Data below is for Swift Diesel (Latest one):

Full tank capacity: 43 litres
Auto lock - cut off point: 35 to 37 litres
Free board space: 6 to 8 litres.

This is the free board that I have mentioned above.
I am reading this for the first time. Are you suggesting that in the Swift we should not have more than 37 litres of fuel at any given point in time?


Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Maybe the reason the driver could not escape was carbon monoxide poisoning. It's odorless and you don't realize you are affected. It reduces brain function, so maybe the driver got confused and couldn't figure out how to exit even with the mechanical unlocking mechanism. Probably the CO started seeping into the cabin much before the fire was evident to the driver.
Most likely reason of this casualty seems to be CO poisoning. There was perhaps not enough time to react.

If the entire car is gutted, I have doubts if any investigation will lead to a proper root cause.
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Old 19th May 2015, 16:45   #75
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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post

I am reading this for the first time. Are you suggesting that in the Swift we should not have more than 37 litres of fuel at any given point in time?
It is a good point to fill till auto cut off. The free board keeps the pressure and fuel movement possible. If you fill to the brim then fuel flows out when the car is in motion.

With my experience in the Swift and Ritz, the auto cut off comes at 35 to 37 litres. I don't fill further. I have seen drivers shake the car to fill me and more fuel which IMO is wrong practice.
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