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Old 19th May 2015, 16:53   #76
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Filling fuel over the cut-off points eats up the room for the fuel to expand due to temperature changes. Hence, undue pressure can build up in the tank & fuel might find its way out from somewhere creating a leak at a weak point. Best is to avoid filling fuel beyond the cut-off point. Applies to two-wheelers as well.

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Old 19th May 2015, 18:37   #77
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Filling fuel over the cut-off points eats up the room for the fuel to expand due to temperature changes. Hence, undue pressure can build up in the tank & fuel might find its way out from somewhere creating a leak at a weak point. Best is to avoid filling fuel beyond the cut-off point. Applies to two-wheelers as well.
This is where people fail to understand most of the times and keep shaking the car/bike and literally fill fuel till it overflows!

I have seen this every time I go to tank up my Swift. I tried speaking to couple of owners and tried explaining them the need to fill only till auto-cut off but they shrug it off saying more we fill lesser is the interval we need to come to refill! I couldn't say anything more!
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Old 19th May 2015, 18:46   #78
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Leave alone Swifts and Altos, I have seen Volvos being filled to the brim in multiple cases.

I have this habit of stepping out of the bus whenever it is stopped for slightly long period and have observed this tendency then. The fuel-pump assistant places the nozzle on the fuel tank inlet and once the tank reaches the auto cut-off point, the system cuts off fuel supply. Then the pump assistant comes over, picks the nozzle and starts fueling again till the tank starts to overflow. This would be at least some 4-5 liters (or even more).

Does this mean most of the long distance buses carry a potential hazard safety due to over-filling? Who will educate them?? I dont think they would even listen to us. This is a serious concern.
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Old 19th May 2015, 19:47   #79
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Filling fuel over the cut-off points eats up the room for the fuel to expand due to temperature changes. Hence, undue pressure can build up in the tank & fuel might find its way out from somewhere creating a leak at a weak point. Best is to avoid filling fuel beyond the cut-off point. Applies to two-wheelers as well.

Regards.
Not sure about 4 wheelers, but on my Enfield, I have been 'topping-up' fuel for years now . On the fuel cap, there is a tiny hole which I assume is for the pressure to be released due to temperature increase.
I am sure it is there on a car's fuel cap too.
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Old 19th May 2015, 19:57   #80
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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but on my Enfield, I have been 'topping-up' fuel for years now .
I wouldn't do that if I were you ...

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Old 19th May 2015, 20:24   #81
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
If it was overflowing that you were referring to by posting that video, I make sure that never happens.
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:36   #82
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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If it was overflowing that you were referring to by posting that video, I make sure that never happens.
Great! As long as you are fully aware of what can happen, that's half the problem solved. Although I'm still not clear how you ensure it never happens, because in India they don't let us fill the fuel ourselves.
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:48   #83
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Not sure about 4 wheelers, but on my Enfield, I have been 'topping-up' fuel for years now . On the fuel cap, there is a tiny hole which I assume is for the pressure to be released due to temperature increase.
I am sure it is there on a car's fuel cap too.
I have not seen the youtube video posted but just want to bring to your notice that the hole on fuel cap is not for overflow purpose. It is in fact the breather hole which sucks air into the tank as the fuel inside is used by the engine. If the hole gets plugged, flow of fuel may be interrupted due to vacuum lock.
In some bikes, their is a separate overflow pipe which will 'dump' any extra fuel filled to the ground.

Last edited by saket77 : 19th May 2015 at 20:52.
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Old 19th May 2015, 20:50   #84
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by outofthebox View Post
Great! As long as you are fully aware of what can happen, that's half the problem solved. Although I'm still not clear how you ensure it never happens, because in India they don't let us fill the fuel ourselves.
OT:
My eyes are stuck at the fuel tank inlet towards the end when I know it is nearing the brim.
On a two wheeler it is easy since you can see the fuel filling up, probably on an old Enfield it is very much viewable than the newer bikes.
The moment I feel it is enough, I signal the attendant. Being a regular at a pump helps as well in this case. Moreover, no pump attendant is going to over fill a tank, he is well aware what could go wrong and he is also sure he will get a mouthful from the customer.
In my car, the overflow pipe does duty if at all it gets overfilled .
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Old 20th May 2015, 10:13   #85
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I would not worry to much. The chances of your petrol tank bursting is less then remote. Fuel does expand with rising temperature but it really isn't much. On a 50l tank an increase of 30oC will be measured in cc. At worst it will be expelled from the system. The video of the bike is more likely to do with static discharge then overfilling I think
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Old 20th May 2015, 11:01   #86
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by outofthebox View Post
Very sad. RIP. A locked door is one probable cause, maybe his seat belt got jammed?

The 'chalta hai' attitude for electrical repair & maintenance work also doesn't help.

For this reason, I've always carried these two accessories in all my car for years now and gifted several to my near and dear ones. I just wish more people would be aware of their existence and importance in our hot driving conditions:
Attachment 1370965
Attachment 1370966
+1

Fire extinguisher is a must have 'accessory' for any car. It should be bought much before other things like mats and seat covers.

It's better to have it and not need it than need it but not have it!

While buying one we should also keep in mind about the different types of fire that is possible in a car.

Quote:
What Type of Fire Extinguisher is Best-Suited for a Car?
Your vehicle presents several different fire hazards: oil, gas, electrical wires and upholstery. Your car fire extinguisher must be able to handle every possible mishap.

Dry powder fire extinguishers are the best choice for a vehicle or boat. The fire repellent inside is rated for use on any A, B and C or E class of fire (depending on your national fire classifications). This means that a dry powder car fire extinguisher will fight fuel and electrical related fires, as well as common organic combustibles such as upholstery, paper, cloth and wood products that are integral to your vehicle.
More details - http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/...inguisher.html
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Old 20th May 2015, 13:36   #87
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I would not worry to much. The chances of your petrol tank bursting is less then remote. Fuel does expand with rising temperature but it really isn't much. On a 50l tank an increase of 30oC will be measured in cc. At worst it will be expelled from the system. The video of the bike is more likely to do with static discharge then overfilling I think
Jeroen
That is what I have always felt. The petrol tank is not like an LPG tank, it is not pressurized after all.

I always fill my car to the brim at my local Shell pump when starting out on short highway trips, as I do not want to fill anywhere else before returning. I fill and immediately start out, and it has never caused any issues. If we fill to the brim and park the car or bike in hot sunlight, it may cause an overflow.

The only thing we have to ensure is, the topping up (after auto cut off) should be done by inserting only the tip of the filling nozzle inside, so that it is not immersed in the petrol already in the tank.
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Old 20th May 2015, 14:42   #88
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

Ignoring automobile manufacturer guidelines & oil company safety procedures maybe fine if one knows exactly what they are dealing with and are 100% sure that they will be able to deal with incidents effectively, because:

a)Nothing bad has happened to me so far
b)I will be safe in future too - refer to point a) above!


Or one can follow the oil & gas industry's 'it's never enough' safety attitude.

I learnt it while working for more than a decade in the downstream business unit of a Dutch Oil & Gas major.

This safety principle states that when it comes to real life emergencies, no safety measures can ever be a guaranteed 100% effective. Effective safety is all about giving one as many advantages as practically possible to tackle the situation most efficiently.

I for one would like to give myself as many advantages as possible when dealing with emergencies, and not take away a few voluntarily! YMMV
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Old 20th May 2015, 14:48   #89
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Default Re: 2-month old Chevrolet Sail Diesel catches fire - Driver burnt alive

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
It is a good point to fill till auto cut off. The free board keeps the pressure and fuel movement possible. If you fill to the brim then fuel flows out when the car is in motion.

With my experience in the Swift and Ritz, the auto cut off comes at 35 to 37 litres. I don't fill further. I have seen drivers shake the car to fill me and more fuel which IMO is wrong practice.
Isn't this 'free board' volume too big? You are referring to something to the tune of 7-8 liters. Will fuel expand so much?
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Old 21st May 2015, 07:43   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post

Isn't this 'free board' volume too big? You are referring to something to the tune of 7-8 liters. Will fuel expand so much?
Sirjee, all of the freeboard isn't for expansion purpose. It will help in fuel movement during the vehicle movement, doesn't purpose the fuel tank which could find a weak point and start leaking.

What figures I have given are of the Swift. It could be more or less for other cars.

Last edited by a4anurag : 21st May 2015 at 07:45.
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