Why car cos come up with CNG models in contrast to LPG models ? - Team-BHP

mithun · 28th August 2006, 06:19

I'm just wondering why car cos are introducing CNG models in contrast to LPG models; I'm not talking about the pros & cons associated with LPG & CNG, but the availability. CNG is mostly available in Delhi & some urban areas but the new LPG dispensing centers are popping up even in remote areas.

And also, I've always heard that oil companies are more interested in auto LPG than CNG. Then why CNG models like Xeta, Lancer or Optra. And there are only 2 LPG models; Omni & WagonR.

And Maruti service centers will fit LPG kits without voiding warranty in all the existing & new models.

Then why this captivation with CNG ?

iamkapilb · 28th August 2006, 14:22

I thought LPG and CNG can be used if u have CNG/LPG kit! Isnt that the case??

esteem_lover · 28th August 2006, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

I'm just wondering why car cos are introducing CNG models in contrast to LPG models; I'm not talking about the pros & cons associated with LPG & CNG, but the availability. CNG is mostly available in Delhi & some urban areas but the new LPG dispensing centers are popping up even in remote areas.

And also, I've always heard that oil companies are more interested in auto LPG than CNG. Then why CNG models like Xeta, Lancer or Optra. And there are only 2 LPG models; Omni & WagonR.

And Maruti service centers will fit LPG kits without voiding warranty in all the existing & new models.

Then why this captivation with CNG ?

something to do with the oil companies, not the govt. or any logic. about maruthi fitting lpg kits, i would like to have the name & address of these MASS, please.

Quote:

I thought LPG and CNG can be used if u have CNG/LPG kit! Isnt that the case??

nope, you are 100% wrong.

Poseidon · 28th August 2006, 18:36

CNG - cheapest fuel for IC engines but poor network in India. GAIL, Mahanagar, Indraprastha, Reliance wake up!
LPG - Costlier than CNG, but extremely well networked fuel.

Now see who's placing his bets where:
Maruti, taxi-wallahs outside Delhi = short term, volume players = LPG
Lancer, Tata, (Hyundai, Toyota, Honda??) = bit more vision = CNG

souravbasu · 28th August 2006, 19:24

CNG-Compressed Natural Gas is natural gas liquefied under high pressure. (approx. 2250psi) CNG fumes can combine with oxygen to form a powerful explosive. Though CNG fumes are lighter than air and will generally dissipate through open ports and hatches, care must be used with CNG appliances. Manufacturers include additives in CNG to make it smell strongly. Nothing beats a nose to sniff out gas fumes!

LPG - Liquefied petroleum gas is really two different gases that are generally classed together and are interchangeable. Propane and butane are both used in LPG appliances and have some advantages over CNG. LPG has a much higher heat output (21,000 BTUs/lb. for LPG vs. 9,000 BTUs/lb. for CNG) LPG also operates at lower pressures. One thing to note, if you boat in cold weather, propane is preferable to butane, as butane has difficulty vaporizing in extremely cold weather and might not allow an appliance to work properly. One drawback to LPG is that fumes are heavier than air, and can build up to dangerous levels in bilge compartments. Even a small spark can signal the end of your boat!

Here is the complete source link: http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/R...ect/info3d.htm

tushar79 · 28th August 2006, 23:46

I'm not really sure about the resoning of the manufacturers.

But in Delhi, CNG took off only after the SC ruling making it mandatory for all public transport to run on a "green" fuel. Why it chose CNG over LPG I don't know.

But another reason why LPG kits didn't take off in Delhi, I guess, is because car owners found the easily available kitchen cyclinder to be so much more cheaper than the authorsed, govt approved kits. So the auto LPG guys, who stood absolutely no chance against the heavily subidised kitchen cyclinder, decided to give the city a miss.

Car manufacturers are then caught in a Catch-22 situation. Delhi, the largest market, doesn't have LPG pumps and the rest of the country doesn't have CNG.

I also remember readin in Business Standard that the car manufacturers association is dead against CNG for some reason. But I hear Hyundai is planning a CNG Santro by year-end.

mithun · 29th August 2006, 06:59

Quote:

i would like to have the name & address of these MASS, please.

The Dealer is Indus Motors, Kochi. The kit for MPFI will cost Rs.20,000 including RTO endorsement.

Contact info can be obtained from Maruti website

THE-U- · 29th August 2006, 09:49

If I recall correctly, CNG is cheaper than LPG. Don't know how this plays into the equation here though!

esteem_lover · 29th August 2006, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE-U-

If I recall correctly, CNG is cheaper than LPG. Don't know how this plays into the equation here though!

how do you know ? is CNG or LPG available where you live ?

i know the price of LPG in August is Rs.27.04 per litre in Chennai. CNG is not available here in chennai. so i wouldn't know about that. guys in delhi can throw some light on this.

Poseidon · 29th August 2006, 20:57

With several manufacturers unveiling CNG and LPG versions of their vehicles, discourse is slowly moving away from the conventional 'petrol vs diesel' framework. These new fuels have their own performance, cost, safety, availability and maintenence characteristics.
For example:
What happens to 0-100 timings?
Is power delivery acceptable at low RPM?
Are there any tuners/boosters/safe additives for enhancing performance?
How available are these fuels across India? What are the future plans?
What's the FE-cost equation?
What are the maintenance issues - freqent gearshifts, engine overloading?
Safety issues, CNG vis-a-vis LPG?
Resale?
How do the insurance guys view all these developments?

With so much combined expertise available, I think we at T-BHP need to debate these developments in some detail.

THE-U- · 30th August 2006, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

how do you know ? is CNG or LPG available where you live ?

I meant CNG is cheaper to produce (Petrol is also slightly cheaper to produce than Diesel). Whether its really going to be cheaper in the real market, I don't know.

rohitbagai · 30th August 2006, 04:10

CNG and LPG both have their own limitations. but CNG is preffered in autos because its lighter than air so in case of leakage it quicky evaporates UP!!in air. So is less dangerous. Secondly LPG has smell that none of us would like to drive with

GTO · 30th August 2006, 16:17

Quote:

LPG - Costlier than CNG, but extremely well networked fuel.

Incorrect. CNG has far more availability than LPG, atleast in the metros. Also, it is cheaper to runa car on CNG than LPG.

Boom Shiva · 30th August 2006, 17:34

CNG is cheaper in terms of cost per kilometre. However, maintenance is higher because it causes greater wear on the engine in the long run. It also puts an extra load on the suspension because of the cylinder, which is much heavier than an LPG cylinder.

For insurance companies, you have to give them a letter stating that you have fit an RTO certified kit. Your premium goes up by 5% plus tax (12.5% of the 5%).

GTO · 30th August 2006, 17:51

Quote:

maintenance is higher because it causes greater wear on the engine in the long run.

Incorrect. Extensive research has shown that CNG burns much cleaner, and actually leads to less engine wear. Am providing just one link, but a search on google will take you to plentiful more reliable sources : Energy.Gov link

28th August 2006, 06:19	#1 (permalink)
mithun Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin/B'lore(Land of Speed-breakers) Posts: 1,564 View My Garage	Why car cos come up with CNG models in contrast to LPG models ? I'm just wondering why car cos are introducing CNG models in contrast to LPG models; I'm not talking about the pros & cons associated with LPG & CNG, but the availability. CNG is mostly available in Delhi & some urban areas but the new LPG dispensing centers are popping up even in remote areas. And also, I've always heard that oil companies are more interested in auto LPG than CNG. Then why CNG models like Xeta, Lancer or Optra. And there are only 2 LPG models; Omni & WagonR. And Maruti service centers will fit LPG kits without voiding warranty in all the existing & new models. Then why this captivation with CNG ? __________________ Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams dry, life is a broken-winged bird that cannot fly.

28th August 2006, 19:24	#5 (permalink)
souravbasu BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 69	CNG-Compressed Natural Gas is natural gas liquefied under high pressure. (approx. 2250psi) CNG fumes can combine with oxygen to form a powerful explosive. Though CNG fumes are lighter than air and will generally dissipate through open ports and hatches, care must be used with CNG appliances. Manufacturers include additives in CNG to make it smell strongly. Nothing beats a nose to sniff out gas fumes! LPG - Liquefied petroleum gas is really two different gases that are generally classed together and are interchangeable. Propane and butane are both used in LPG appliances and have some advantages over CNG. LPG has a much higher heat output (21,000 BTUs/lb. for LPG vs. 9,000 BTUs/lb. for CNG) LPG also operates at lower pressures. One thing to note, if you boat in cold weather, propane is preferable to butane, as butane has difficulty vaporizing in extremely cold weather and might not allow an appliance to work properly. One drawback to LPG is that fumes are heavier than air, and can build up to dangerous levels in bilge compartments. Even a small spark can signal the end of your boat! Here is the complete source link: http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/R...ect/info3d.htm Last edited by aah78 : 29th August 2006 at 20:24.

29th August 2006, 20:57	#10 (permalink)
Poseidon BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the briny Posts: 72	CNG vs LPG run cars - performance, cost, safety, viability analysis With several manufacturers unveiling CNG and LPG versions of their vehicles, discourse is slowly moving away from the conventional 'petrol vs diesel' framework. These new fuels have their own performance, cost, safety, availability and maintenence characteristics. For example: What happens to 0-100 timings? Is power delivery acceptable at low RPM? Are there any tuners/boosters/safe additives for enhancing performance? How available are these fuels across India? What are the future plans? What's the FE-cost equation? What are the maintenance issues - freqent gearshifts, engine overloading? Safety issues, CNG vis-a-vis LPG? Resale? How do the insurance guys view all these developments? With so much combined expertise available, I think we at T-BHP need to debate these developments in some detail.

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28th August 2006, 14:22	#2 (permalink)
iamkapilb BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25	I thought LPG and CNG can be used if u have CNG/LPG kit! Isnt that the case??

28th August 2006, 18:36	#4 (permalink)
Poseidon BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the briny Posts: 72	CNG - cheapest fuel for IC engines but poor network in India. GAIL, Mahanagar, Indraprastha, Reliance wake up! LPG - Costlier than CNG, but extremely well networked fuel. Now see who's placing his bets where: Maruti, taxi-wallahs outside Delhi = short term, volume players = LPG Lancer, Tata, (Hyundai, Toyota, Honda??) = bit more vision = CNG

28th August 2006, 23:46	#6 (permalink)
tushar79 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 36	I'm not really sure about the resoning of the manufacturers. But in Delhi, CNG took off only after the SC ruling making it mandatory for all public transport to run on a "green" fuel. Why it chose CNG over LPG I don't know. But another reason why LPG kits didn't take off in Delhi, I guess, is because car owners found the easily available kitchen cyclinder to be so much more cheaper than the authorsed, govt approved kits. So the auto LPG guys, who stood absolutely no chance against the heavily subidised kitchen cyclinder, decided to give the city a miss. Car manufacturers are then caught in a Catch-22 situation. Delhi, the largest market, doesn't have LPG pumps and the rest of the country doesn't have CNG. I also remember readin in Business Standard that the car manufacturers association is dead against CNG for some reason. But I hear Hyundai is planning a CNG Santro by year-end.

29th August 2006, 09:49	#8 (permalink)
THE-U- BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 201	If I recall correctly, CNG is cheaper than LPG. Don't know how this plays into the equation here though!

30th August 2006, 04:10	#12 (permalink)
rohitbagai BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 186	CNG and LPG both have their own limitations. but CNG is preffered in autos because its lighter than air so in case of leakage it quicky evaporates UP!!in air. So is less dangerous. Secondly LPG has smell that none of us would like to drive with

30th August 2006, 17:34	#14 (permalink)
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,053	CNG is cheaper in terms of cost per kilometre. However, maintenance is higher because it causes greater wear on the engine in the long run. It also puts an extra load on the suspension because of the cylinder, which is much heavier than an LPG cylinder. For insurance companies, you have to give them a letter stating that you have fit an RTO certified kit. Your premium goes up by 5% plus tax (12.5% of the 5%).