Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th June 2015, 15:00   #16
BHPian
 
Vigkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 669
Thanked: 1,153 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
The difference between the on road price of a 75Hp emotion Punto and 1.4 FIRE is just 12k here so Fiat is pricing their diesel cars low.
Doge, that has a lot to do with the extra duty to be paid for the 1.4 FIRE car. With a 1.3 L diesel engine, the Multijet Punto is a small car. But with a 1.4 L petrol engine, Punto is no longer a small car and will fall into the next segment where the duty is much higher. That plays a huge role in the noted difference in on-road prices.
Vigkey is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 15:13   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pune
Posts: 309
Thanked: 756 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

I did a quick calculation just now based on the cars we have in our family. I must say I was lucky to buy the first crop of Beat Diesel when the price difference between the petrol and diesel was about 75,000 (Dont remember it clearly though)

Note: I am not aware of current prices of both cars so considering only the prices that I know when we bought these cars. Also, I am not endorsing any brand or misplacing any information. The car price comparison and break-even is given only to generalize the costs of fuel saved if you were to buy cars in that price range and use it daily for office commuting like me.
Calculations are going to vary a lot for different use cases.

Name:  FuelCalculation.JPG
Views: 3419
Size:  57.8 KB

Last edited by NiInJa : 19th June 2015 at 15:23. Reason: Added one more disclaimer
NiInJa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 15:23   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
fiat_tarun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pune / Mysore
Posts: 1,113
Thanked: 582 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

IIRC, when diesel was de-regulated, the price differential between petrol and diesel was around Rs.10 / litre. Ideally this gap should have been maintained and all subsequent increases and decreases should have moved in sync. However, as we have seen this has not been the case and petrol has seen smaller reductions and higher increases compared to diesel ! The latest hike defies all logic where petrol prices were increased and diesel prices reduced.

The difference today is ~Rs.16 / litre between the two fuels and if this differential continues to grow, I see the market again shifting to diesel. New launches like the Celerio with big mileage claims will only aid this shift.

When de-regulation happened, I had almost made up my mind that my next car was going to be a turbo petrol, but now I'm not so sure !
fiat_tarun is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 16:24   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
arnabchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MH-04
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 1,084 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
I did a quick calculation just now based on the cars we have in our family. I must say I was lucky to buy the first crop of Beat Diesel when the price difference between the petrol and diesel was about 75,000 (Dont remember it clearly though)

Note: I am not aware of current prices of both cars so considering only the prices that I know when we bought these cars. Also, I am not endorsing any brand or misplacing any information. The car price comparison and break-even is given only to generalize the costs of fuel saved if you were to buy cars in that price range and use it daily for office commuting like me.
Calculations are going to vary a lot for different use cases.

Attachment 1383593
Thanks for the comparison.
But, do you mind telling how and why you have kept the Brio mileage @ 240/13= 18.xx kmpl vs the Beat 240/16= 15 kmpl.

The published Beat milagae(ARAI) is 24 kmpl so effectively, you will get close to 18-20 kmpl.
arnabchak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 16:52   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kochi
Posts: 63
Thanked: 52 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Shockingly, as we have seen with the latest round of fuel price changes (a price hike for petrol & a price cut for diesel by twice the amount), this still means the price of petrol is not directly related to global crude oil prices by any stretch of the imagination, despite petrol supposedly being "deregulated" a long time ago.


With car buyers no longer seeing any advantage in paying huge additional sums upfront for diesel cars, sales of oil burners are declining relative to their gasoline counterparts. This would have hurt the margins of manufacturers who make hefty profits on diesel cars.

You have summed up in one word "lobby raj" every thing that is wrong with the pricing mechanism of fuels in India.

Most probably the auto manufactures are lobbying hard now to ensure that there is a fair price difference between the two fuels. Most major auto manufacturers in India have made substantial involvements in diesel plants and need the sale of diesel cars to justify their investments. If crude further declines, we may thus witness drops in the price of diesel alone or even a movement in opposite directions.

Since diesel now no longer carries a subsidy, the governmental finances remain unaffected.
arunkumarsarat is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 17:12   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pune
Posts: 309
Thanked: 756 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
do you mind telling how and why you have kept the Brio mileage @ 240/13= 18.xx kmpl vs the Beat 240/16= 15 kmpl.
Sorry for the confusion, I messed the row titles a little. The mileage (Average fuel consumed : kms per liter) of Brio is 13 kmpl and Beat is 16 kmpl. That gives the fuel consumed per week as 240/13=18.46 liters and 240/16= 15 liters.

Typically, the difference always is about 3-4 kilometers. If on a good day I get 14 kmpl in Brio, I will get 17-18 kmpl in Beat. The 18-20 kmpl figure is achieved in cases when the car moving more than it is stopping or crawling which is almost unlikely on my route. My travel is from the edge of Kothrud (Katraj Bypass Warje flyover) to Kharadi (Eon IT park). There is no other way but to go through the entire city full of signals and construction work. Same is not the case with people having office in Hinjewadi, most of the journey is done on NH4.

Last edited by NiInJa : 19th June 2015 at 17:18. Reason: Typo
NiInJa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 19:12   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: BHO BOM PUN
Posts: 59
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Recently i have observed the trend has been drifting towards Petrol again.The fuel difference which was once 25-30 Rs which made people run behind the diesel cars has narrowed down to a great deal and the fuel being deregulated now, the prices may fluctuate , There will be a day soon when prices will change everyday.

There are multiple factors which make people drift towards petrol:
- Cheaper
- Low Maintenance
- Less noisy as compared to Diesel
- More Zip

Specially when they calculate the break even if the running is less then 1000Kms a month
a petrol car would always be good enough. In Non-Metro cities where distances are not very far and if one does not do frequent high way trips, people settle for petrol.

Gradually this difference will even out and more than economy and feasibility people will start buying according to interest and liking.
ashishmathur14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 19:18   #23
BHPian
 
Bhodrolok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 132
Thanked: 97 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
However, as we have seen this has not been the case and petrol has seen smaller reductions and higher increases compared to diesel ! The latest hike defies all logic where petrol prices were increased and diesel prices reduced.


I couldn't agree more especially with the latest revisions. I strongly feel the way forward is to completely dergulate diesel prices and provide some targetted subsidies to commerical vehicles and trains etc.
I still can't wrap my head around subsidizing fuel costs for people who drive Beemers, Audis as the high end market in India is pretty much entirely diesel.
Bhodrolok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 19:41   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: BHO BOM PUN
Posts: 59
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhodrolok View Post


I couldn't agree more especially with the latest revisions. I strongly feel the way forward is to completely dergulate diesel prices and provide some targetted subsidies to commerical vehicles and trains etc.
I still can't wrap my head around subsidizing fuel costs for people who drive Beemers, Audis as the high end market in India is pretty much entirely diesel.

Absolutely Right Bhodrolok !

The premium market is completely diesel with the price tag these machines come, the buyers should never have the problem with subsidy, but many mid sized hatch and sedans, Taxis also run on diesel and they enjoyed the diesel subsidy. Now its gone, The game is even for all.
Ideally , it should have been gone couple of years ago but government could not find a way where they could keep the everyone happy and thus kept delaying the decision.
ashishmathur14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 20:05   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 133
Thanked: 352 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

Probably, the market is moving towards a more logical mix of petrol (turbo?) powered small cars, with torquey diesels serving SUVs and MUVs. Pumpset sounding goods carriers would also hopefully evolve
GeeTee TSI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 20:29   #26
BHPian
 
rangarx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Udumalpet / Che
Posts: 270
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

The pain of owning a petrol car is realised only when brimming the tank of a petrol sedan with awful fuel efficiency which thinks itself as a luxo-barge. Unfortunately I own one.

In my experience Diesel car is cheaper to run than a petrol guzzler by at least 60%. And for middle class, the recurring expense matters more than the initial investment. IMHO, it is Diesel for me any day! The fantastic torque is a bonus!
rangarx is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 21:22   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 701 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

I bet this will get skewed against diesel if common man gets a taste of turbo petrol.

Meanwhile the common man doesn't like to taste the revotron. Maybe he doesn't feel at ease without that claustrophobic feel?
ramzsys is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 21:27   #28
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,473
Thanked: 19,389 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

The market share could come down for Diesel's even more if all manufacturers had good petrol engines. Right now companies like Hyundai or Nissan/Renault don't even have potent petrol engines. All the petrol engines are mediocre whereas the diesels offer better performance as well as efficiency. We need more engines like VW 1.2 TSI or 1.0 Ecoboost.

Secondly a lot of manufacturers offer 5 speed gearboxes for petrol but diesel is 6 speed. This further drops FE for a petrol engine which is anyways not as efficient as it's diesel counterpart.

Manufacturers like Honda lost out big time. They joined the diesel bandwagon very late and now the volumes have dropped.
Vid6639 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 22:08   #29
BHPian
 
Vigkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 669
Thanked: 1,153 Times
Default Re: Diesel Cars: Down, down, down! Market share = 34%

To be frank, I always thought I loved petrols - high revving, fun to drive, fast and agile, no noise. Wow, it was a perfect world - or was it?

Things changed when I got the taste of turbo diesels. The low end torque - was all that was needed to make me tilt towards diesel. The ease of driving increased multi-folds even though the fun came down a bit. While fun is very important, for all practical purposes, ease of driving had to have more weightage. So, now I love diesels as much as I love the petrols, but will most probably choose a diesel as my next car - simply because of the ease factor.

Things will be totally different if only for the small car rules were not in place. If the bigger petrols (anything abouve the standard 1.2 L) were offered on smaller cars, I would any day choose the petrols. This is where turbo petrols have immense potential. One of Maruti, Hyundai or Honda have to bring in one like the TSi and Ecoboost - tune it to have lesser lag and also make them high revving. Currently turbo diesels are common place, but turbo petrols are considered niche - that will change only if one of the big 3 bring it in their small cars.

Once that becomes more common, my prediction is, only big ladder-on-frame SUVs will be having diesels.
Vigkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th June 2015, 23:34   #30
Newbie
 
rockyjee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 23
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
Sorry for the confusion, I messed the row titles a little. The mileage (Average fuel consumed : kms per liter) of Brio is 13 kmpl and Beat is 16 kmpl. That gives the fuel consumed per week as 240/13=18.46 liters and 240/16= 15 liters

To be fair you have the cheaper (used to be the cheapest) diesel hatchback and the somewhat premium petrol hatchback. The real comparison would be worked out when you are someone is looking at the same car but a choice of engines, maybe the same variant too.

We also have to look at the spares and maintenance costs and the service intervals. IMHO the Diesel engine would negate some of the fuel cost difference there. That should be included for break even calculations.
rockyjee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share? anjan_c2007 The Indian Car Scene 141 12th December 2017 12:54
Competition, Strikes Hitting Maruti Suzuki's Market Share KPS The Indian Car Scene 19 1st December 2011 20:56
What can make the GM get market share in India mjothi The Indian Car Scene 63 18th June 2009 12:48
What is each manufacturer's market share now? sbasak The Indian Car Scene 2 27th November 2005 13:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:45.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks