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Old 17th July 2015, 00:35   #16
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

The first round of the mass bookings for any new launch is expected and it shouldn't be different for the Jazz but will wait and see how the sales pickup after initial enthusiasm among the buyers dies.

The shift towards automatic should have happened a long time but its about time companies made these offerings a priority like the manuals one. Once you get accustomed to the unfussy ride of an autobox, its just impossible to go back to a clunky manual. There is no fun or enthusiasm and definitely no comfort when you're inching in the ever increasing traffic in our cities where you have to unendingly keep working the annoying the stick and pedal.
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Old 17th July 2015, 08:20   #17
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

Interesting! Should make Hyundai to plonk in an AT box for the i20 soon. An intelligent gearbox can mask the deficiencies of a weak engine at low revs. Much needed for the 1.2 liter petrol engines that we get here across manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by tjacob View Post
Once you get accustomed to the unfussy ride of an autobox, its just impossible to go back to a clunky manual. There is no fun or enthusiasm and definitely no comfort when you're inching in the ever increasing traffic in our cities where you have to unendingly keep working the annoying the stick and pedal.
LOL! Not everyone thinks like that, especially here.

AT is super convenience, but there are a lot of drivers for whom shifting gears manually is one of highlights of driving.
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Old 17th July 2015, 09:57   #18
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

I think 40% is kind of impossible to achieve.
May be these are the pre-bookings but I don't think it can sustain.
It looks like Honda has given a pretty decent AT in the Jazz with the added advantage of paddle shifters - it will definitely find some takers but 40% I doubt.

But why no broadcast from Honda declaring the total number of bookings? Normally, the marketing team would be going all guns blazing about this. Tells me the response is not that good!

Hyundai would find it difficult to provide the AT in I20 with the weak 1.2 petrol motor.
And the 1.4 becomes too expensive to be viable (that's the reason why they discontinued it in the 1st place)
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Old 17th July 2015, 10:04   #19
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

Just a thought. Could this 40% be out of the petrol versions (65% of the total) rather than 40% of all cars booked? In case of the former it comes to about 26% which seems more likely IMO.
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Old 17th July 2015, 10:45   #20
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

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Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post

Hyundai seem to be missing a trick here and this is a real shocker
They have a blockbuster of a car and they still haven't launched at AT ?
I think the I20 Auto is just a month or 2 away given the Jazz's CVT Success.
Hyundai has the weapons and they wont let Honda enjoy an easy charge in this category.
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Interesting! Should make Hyundai to plonk in an AT box for the i20 soon. An intelligent gearbox can mask the deficiencies of a weak engine at low revs. Much needed for the 1.2 liter petrol engines that we get here across manufacturers.
I think Hyundai is kind of stuck here.

I assume there is something preventing them from mating the 1.2 to the 4 Speed AT in the i20. Otherwise I don't see a reason for them to not launch it. Even the earlier i20 AT was with a 1.4 ltr engine and 4 speed gear box. Couple of years back it self I recall it was close to 10L OTR Bangalore. On top of that the FE was very poor. If they bring it back now, they would have to price it may be even above the GT TSI.

No one would pay so much for a relatively old AT box with average performance and poor FE as compared to the CVT's and DSG's. The other option they have is to mate the 6 Speed AT to the 1.2. But considering that even the Verna gets only the 4 speed AT, I don't think they can afford to put it in the i20.

So they don't have a good way to equip the i20 with an AT and make the package attractive enough to give a good bump in sales. Only option remaining is to launch a diesel AT. There has been rumors going around for ever on this.

Hyundai needs to pull up its socks with respect to AT's in India (I am hoping they have started doing that with the Creta Diesel AT). Others are pushing forward with bringing DSG's, DCT, CVT, AMT into the lower segments. With the AT wave picking up in India, it will be a matter of time before the lack of interest by Hyundai with AT's starts to affect sales.

This will be one area where the Jazz will notch up numbers. Buyers in the premium hatch segment will be increasingly looking for the convenience of AT's. The initial numbers seem to indicate that

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 17th July 2015 at 10:50.
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Old 17th July 2015, 10:58   #21
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Only option remaining is to launch a diesel AT. There has been rumors going around for ever on this.

Hyundai needs to pull up its socks with respect to AT's in India (I am hoping they have started doing that with the Creta Diesel AT). Others are pushing forward with bringing DSG's, DCT, CVT, AMT into the lower segments. With the AT wave picking up in India, it will be a matter of time before the lack of interest by Hyundai with AT's starts to affect sales.

This will be one area where the Jazz will notch up numbers. Buyers in the premium hatch segment will be increasingly looking for the convenience of AT's. The initial numbers seem to indicate that
+1 to that. Give us a 6 speed AT box in the Diesel i20 and all under 10L OTR and I am sure there would be a lot of takers for it. It saves us a good 3.5-4L Vs the Creta Diesel AT.
Coming to think of it, it might just hit the Creta AT sales so Hyundai might not do it anytime soon :(.
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Old 17th July 2015, 11:12   #22
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

CVT's have been better than manual from day one !

But in real world I have never seen any CVT prove that. Maybe the test conditions where they come up with these numbers are better suited for CVT. A manual knows exactly when to shift or when not to shift since the driver actually knows the conditions ahead better
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Old 17th July 2015, 13:50   #23
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

High CVT numbers may also mean poor mass acceptance implying poor overall sales numbers.
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Old 17th July 2015, 14:57   #24
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

CVTs can smoothly compensate for changing vehicle speeds, allowing the engine speed to remain at its level of peak efficiency. They may also avoid torque converter losses. This improves both fuel economy and exhaust emissions. However, some units also employ a torque converter. CVTs have much smoother operation. This can give a perception of low power, because many drivers expect a jerk when they begin to move the vehicle. The satisfying jerk of a non-CVT transmission can be emulated by CVT control software though, eliminating this marketing problem. Since the CVT keeps the engine turning at constant RPMs over a wide range of vehicle speeds, pressing on the accelerator pedal will make the car move faster but doesn't change the sound coming from the engine as much as a conventional automatic transmission gear-shift. This confuses some drivers and again, leads to a mistaken impression of a lack of power. More advanced CVT units using advanced lubricants, however, have been proven to support any amount of torque in production vehicles, including that used for buses, heavy trucks, and earth moving equipment. CVTs in production prior to 2005 are predominantly belt or chain driven and therefore typically limited to low powered cars and other light duty applications. CVT torque handling capability is limited by the strength of their belt or chain, and by their ability to withstand friction wear between torque source and transmission medium for friction-driven CVTs.
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Old 17th July 2015, 15:27   #25
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

I'm quite surprised at this new - a Honda by default always sounds like its stuck in the wrong gear. Add a CVT to the equation and the problem isn't going to get any better.

Paddle shifters on a CVT? Exactly what purpose does it serve?
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Old 17th July 2015, 15:34   #26
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

From the Autocar review, the 0-100 for the Jazz CVT is around 14 secs. I don't think it's too bad. Many cars in the segment including the Elite I20 have similar or slower 0-100 timing for the manual transmissions.

I don't recollect the in-gear numbers but they were pretty good as well.
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Old 17th July 2015, 16:55   #27
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
From the Autocar review, the 0-100 for the Jazz CVT is around 14 secs. I don't think it's too bad. Many cars in the segment including the Elite I20 have similar or slower 0-100 timing for the manual transmissions.

I don't recollect the in-gear numbers but they were pretty good as well.
This is actually an eye opener.

Does anyone have a comparison of how the same engine performs in manual vs hydraulic vs CVT in a 0-100 or 0-60 or 20-80 or something of this kind?
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Old 17th July 2015, 17:37   #28
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
All ARAI figures are daydreams, but then you put a correction of say 30% to get the true value. Remember a CVT can be more efficient that a manual - always in the best ratio, and a lighter box.
Within the city, there is no way that a CVT petrol will be more efficient than a manual. Compare any car's MT & CVT figures. The CVT will be 20 - 30% behind the manual in the city. The rubber-band effect doesn't help efficiency either.

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Originally Posted by prkiran View Post
Just a thought. Could this 40% be out of the petrol versions (65% of the total) rather than 40% of all cars booked? In case of the former it comes to about 26% which seems more likely IMO.
If the ACI article is accurate, nope. Here's what it says:

Quote:
The petrol manual, the sole version of the Jazz available last time around, accounts for 25 percent of bookings so far and the diesel version has received 35 percent of total orders.
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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
High CVT numbers may also mean poor mass acceptance implying poor overall sales numbers.
Superb observation, I must say!
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Old 17th July 2015, 17:41   #29
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Paddle shifters on a CVT? Exactly what purpose does it serve?
Did you read our Jazz official review? It's covered there.

Honda is not marketing the paddles as a sporty feature. They are saying it can be used to provide engine braking when going down hill or better control when going up hill.

It sort of makes sense as they do provide engine braking and when going up hill keeping it at a lower ratio helps.
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Old 17th July 2015, 19:23   #30
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Default Re: CVT version accounts for 40% of Honda Jazz bookings

I'm not surprised about this ratio. If there was an AT in diesel too it could have crossed 60% like it has in Creta. Indian users always wanted AT's, but bad efficiency, available only with top end petrol etc were issues that crushed the demand. Now that auto manufacturers are waking up and providing what is needed, sales of Automatics of all types will pickup. Only thing that I'm worried of is will we get a resale market for our manuals, the way pre power-steering cars were shunned in the resale market a few years ago, manuals may also face the same issue.

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