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Old 10th August 2015, 17:24   #31
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

I do not think their low sales volumes are because of the impending launch, but because Ciaz is not selling in volumes. By being the market leader, they would have expected it to outsell the Honda City. I think the hype on this product is coming down.
New technologies such as AMT gearbox and now this start/stop system will gain mass market acceptance, if the market leader Maruti Suzuki introduces them. We have seen it time and again. So, why wouldn't they take a step further and give full safety kit with 6 air bags, ABS, EBD, ESP,Hill hold, etc at least in their top variant?
Currently even Ciaz and their premium offering S-Cross do not get such kits!
If they start doing it, other manufacturers have no excuse to dodge and wait until the new laws are made!
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Old 11th August 2015, 08:01   #32
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Seeing working of SVHS, I feel that it is quite innovative for a market like India. Full hybrids are no doubt expensive. This will give some amount of functionality at a reduced cost compared to a hybrid version. Regen braking will be offered which isn't an expensive thing to implement when you have all the necessary hardware such as an updated alternator and battery.

Forget the efficiency part, but if this is going to help improve the low end response of the ciaz, it will do wonders to the driveability of the car.

Next step in this project will be for maruti to be able to decouple the engine and be able to run the motor independently. Perhaps moving this alternator/motor ahead of the clutch towards the transmission would be a simple solution. But what surprises me the most is why they didn't do it for their petrol engines, and implemented this on their already efficient diesels.
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Old 11th August 2015, 09:31   #33
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Hello BHPians,

Glad to be on Team-BHP and this is my first post. Hope I add some value to the ongoing discussion.

If the report of Gaadiwaadi.com is correct, then this is a mild hybrid system. Precisely, it is called 'P1 type' in Parallel hybrid systems.

As most of us are aware, theoretically electric motors have maximum torque at zero speed (i.e., when the motor just starts). While IC engines have least torque at that particular point. When both are combined, electric motor will take most of the acceleration load, thereby reducing fuel consumption at lower speeds.

Here, the Integrated starter generator acts can effectively act as a Starter to crank the engine, Electric motor to assist the engine during accelerations and Generator during coasting/braking. It is directly belted to the engine crank pulley.

Ideally it is a 48V or 36V system with Li-ion battery along with the normal 12V Lead acid battery. If a DC-DC converter is used, then the normal 12V system will have a separate Starter to crank the engine. The 48V/36V system will use the DC-DC converter to operate other systems like Infotainment, ACC, lightings, etc.

Typically it is a low cost hybrid system. Total cost impact should be around Rs 50,000 per vehicle. Fuel efficiency targets are in the range of 10-15% increase. Denso, Valeo, Continental, AVL are heavily investing and pursing vehicle manufacturers to adopt it.

It is definitely a step towards full hybridization and many OEMs are keenly looking at it.

Source - http://www.automotiveworld.com/news-...tric-vehicles/
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Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now launched!-vehicle-electrification-road-map.jpg  

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Old 11th August 2015, 10:44   #34
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

If I am not mistaken, something like this has been developed by IT company KPIT, Pune. I guess this is the same thing or similar. May be Maruti are using KPIT technology only. The main thing here is engine power generation will be shared by battery as well and will make it more fuel efficient. As it will burn less fuel its Eco-friendly as well. Its believed to be at least 15-20 % more fuel efficient. Kudos to Maruti for trying this out. Surely good initiative they have taken as a market leader and investing in trying something new

Its very easy to just comment on something. It takes big effort, some real investment and big heart experiment something like this in the market. Even bigger companies like Toyota, Honda, VW, Ford etc also not doing much here & scared of failures. Wishing best of luck to Maruti, keep it up !!
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Old 11th August 2015, 19:43   #35
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Need to know more, but as others have mentioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
If I am not mistaken, something like this has been developed by IT company KPIT, Pune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
I remember Cummins testing something like this in an alto. Where a very large alternator would act like a proper hybrid.

REVOLO – Ready To Fit Hybrid Technology - Team-BHP - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...echnology.html (REVOLO Ready To Fit Hybrid Technology)
sounds similar to it.

Regarding ECU controlled alternator, with programming biased towards fuel economy, the Eon has it. Does anyone know of any other mass market car in here?

There also used to be a contraption called the Dynastart.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 11th August 2015 at 19:46.
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Old 11th August 2015, 21:12   #36
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I wonder why a diesel platform was chosen by MSL? If we look at global market the hybrid technology is predominantly offered on Gasoline platforms and diesel hybrids r very few.
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Old 11th August 2015, 21:32   #37
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

I wonder why no car maker thinks about diesel electric instead of a hybrid? As in diesel electric locomotives where in the diesel engine is merely powering a constant speed generator which is supplying varied current to the electric motors in the wheels. The diesel engine runs at a constant speed, thus increasing fuel efficiency and there is no transmission to eliminate transmission losses, leading to huge fuel savings.
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Old 11th August 2015, 22:01   #38
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I wonder why no car maker thinks about diesel electric instead of a hybrid? As in diesel electric locomotives where in the diesel engine is merely powering a constant speed generator which is supplying varied current to the electric motors in the wheels. The diesel engine runs at a constant speed, thus increasing fuel efficiency and there is no transmission to eliminate transmission losses, leading to huge fuel savings.
Only because of costs. This will add up a lot of expenses in addition to the engine which is already present. The traction converters used in diesel electric setups are not very cheap. For a locomotive, it will be cost effective. But for a small car it will not be justifiable.

In addition to the engine, it will require two or four motors, a battery pack(optional), AC-DC-AC converters, a generator, a sophisticated control system to manage all these right from the engine to generator to driver to motor.

Hence, except for a few manufacturers trying to use them on expensive cars, I don't think this will be feasible for the mass market, which Maruti always targets when introducing new tech.
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Old 11th August 2015, 23:22   #39
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I wonder why the hullabaloo about nothing? Maruti has been God gifted with bringing about no meaningful changes to its cars but still got away with success. Take for example, Swift with some decals called as Swift Sport!! Now this SVHS. IF Maruti is listening then please bring a meaningful change to Ciaz by adding your another gem engine 1.6L from Fiat. It will make buyers get a potent car with potent engine.
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Old 11th August 2015, 23:25   #40
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I wonder why no car maker thinks about diesel electric instead of a hybrid? As in diesel electric locomotives where in the diesel engine is merely powering a constant speed generator which is supplying varied current to the electric motors in the wheels. The diesel engine runs at a constant speed, thus increasing fuel efficiency and there is no transmission to eliminate transmission losses, leading to huge fuel savings.
In a locomotive more weight is a good thing. Lot more tractive force.

In a car all of that will be a lot of extra weight.

Range extenders do exist though but not diesels yet as they are too heavy.

The new BMW i3 has an optional range extender. 2 cylinder 647cc 33 bhp. Sounds a bit like our nano engine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3
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Old 12th August 2015, 01:11   #41
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabhdadhichi View Post
I wonder why the hullabaloo about nothing? Maruti has been God gifted with bringing about no meaningful changes to its cars but still got away with success. Take for example, Swift with some decals called as Swift Sport!! Now this SVHS. IF Maruti is listening then please bring a meaningful change to Ciaz by adding your another gem engine 1.6L from Fiat. It will make buyers get a potent car with potent engine.
That(the 1.6) is the last thing that Maruti requires to tank this car. With the prices of the S cross going sky high on rocket boosters the 1.6 in the S cross is sure to tank. Seeing the response to the S cross 1.6 they would never launch it. Not at least in the CBU form, if they localise it heavily then the 1.6 might make sense but that again would require volumes.

Maruti would never even dream to price this near to the city let alone similarly or above the city. Reason being that the car is still making a mark for MSIL in the 10 lakhs+ segemnt. All that Maruti needs to do is make sure they update the car constantly without any kanjoosi. That would ensure the product's success.

The SHVS is a positive step in keeping with the trend and i don't believe it would harm the car in any way other than prices. But on the positive side you get a much more efficient engine. The new ARAI claimed figures would be in the range of 30 km/l which is purely astonishing. I remember in 2011 when i was out to change my car anything just near 20 was considered to be very good. Now anything below 20 is considered horrible, times are changing and Maruti is adapting to the situations. I don't believe the change is meaningless if it helps in reducing emmisions and improves fuel efficiency.

Also, let us all not forget the most important change with this update. The presence of an airbag in all variants which was earlier absent in the vxi. Now the VXI+ gets dual airbags, earlier it got only one. I would actually congratulate MSIL for finally making a meaningful and necessary change that they should make as India's largest car manufacturer.
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Old 12th August 2015, 11:14   #42
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

This is a good initiative by the biggest auto maker in India. Could be the trendsetter. While this will probably get other manufacturers to get such tech (at least test them or come out with one or two variants), I always had a query regrading hybrid systems. Most of Indian cars are FWD. Why don't auto makers just plonk in a motor with a diff at the rear wheels connected to a slightly bigger battery ? Such a setup can run in following ways:
1. Only electric - enough to get out of buildings/parking quietly
2. Hybrid - both engine + motors with regenerative braking
3. Diesel-Electric - put in neutral (disengage clutch) and use the motor (kind of a range extended electric vehicle)

Such a car will definitely require a very good controller though.
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:04   #43
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

^^^
Some discussions
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3698674 (Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!)
onwards
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:45   #44
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Maruti Suzuki to discontinue Ciaz diesel altogether to make room for Ciaz SHVS - Launch next week.

Auto car speculates that the new model will be priced around Rs 30,000 more than the Ciaz Diesel whose pricing starts from Rs 880,000 (ex-showroom Mumbai).

Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now launched!-1439374460image1_10.jpg

Quote:
Dealerships are accepting bookings for Ciaz SHVS. However, they are not currently disclosing any information about the Ciaz SHVS and its pricing. The minimum booking amount in Delhi for Ciaz diesel (SHVS included) is INR 11,000 and deliveries are expected to begin by August-end or September beginning.

Quote:
Maruti Suzuki is offering discounts to drain the diesel Ciaz stock with dealerships. The company however has no plans to shift the Ciaz to Nexa dealerships. Ciaz SHVS will be the only vehicle in its segment to offer brake energy recuperation system and start-stop control. The move should also make Ciaz one of the most fuel-efficient vehicles in India(30 kilometres per litre?)
http://carsizzler.com/news-detail/00...Ciaz-SHVS.html

Last edited by volkman10 : 12th August 2015 at 21:01.
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Old 13th August 2015, 19:44   #45
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Ciaz Hybrid - SHVS reaches dealerships - launching soon. Normal Diesel Variants to be discontinued?
Another reason may be, Maruti wants to make the car out of budget for Taxi buyers.
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