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Old 13th August 2015, 21:27   #46
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Ciaz SHVS (Smart Hybrid Vehicle), by Maruti, will be available in three variants – VDi, ZDi, and ZDi+ variants.

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While Maruti is using the same 1.3-litre Multijet engine, the drivetrain has been updated to work in conjunction with the Smart Hybrid Vehicle technology. Speaking of which, this isn’t a proper hybrid system but a mild setup that uses a lithium-ion battery, stop-start technology and regenerative braking for improved efficiency.

The Ciaz SHVS will soon hit the showrooms and replace the conventional diesel model.
http://www.carwale.com/news/19768-ma...-variants.html
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Old 13th August 2015, 21:42   #47
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

I'm wondering if the prices of this SHVS Ciaz will be higher than the regular version? Why I'm asking this because the recently launched Camry received a 70,000 relief from the government under the FAME (Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Electric vehicles in India) scheme.

As per FAME vehicles greater than 4 metres length are eligible for a relief ranging from 11,000 to 1,38,000.

So in effect, Maruti might end up passing most if not all the benefit to the customer. The price may not go up by much if it does at all.
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Old 13th August 2015, 23:01   #48
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Can someone elaborate the usefulness of svhs? Is this going to help it beat the turbo lag? Or is this going to help the car pull faster after 110kmph speed?. I personally felt the car underpowered when I drove it. I didn't like the way the engine strained for pulling after 110kmph. If this technology is going to be of help in this I might give it another shot and shortlist it for buying. Can someone throw more information?.
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Old 13th August 2015, 23:47   #49
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A belt assist system like SVHS will not add to a performance improvement or help you in improved top speed!

You can expect an improved vehicle start(crank) and a hybrid badge.

You can see Nissan Serena Hybrids which are in market which have similar arrangement and doesn't talk of any performance improvement.

N I don't expect much benefit from SVHS in real life driving apart from what comes from Engine Stop Start function which can be seen in Tata Ace and MnM Scorpio
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Old 14th August 2015, 00:12   #50
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post
Can someone elaborate the usefulness of svhs? Is this going to help it beat the turbo lag? Or is this going to help the car pull faster after 110kmph speed?. I personally felt the car underpowered when I drove it. I didn't like the way the engine strained for pulling after 110kmph. If this technology is going to be of help in this I might give it another shot and shortlist it for buying. Can someone throw more information?.
The SHVS is more focused on better efficiency rather than better performance. So it will not change anything with regards to the turbo lag but would make the engine run more efficient by reducing the load that is put on the engine by the alternator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I'm wondering if the prices of this SHVS Ciaz will be higher than the regular version? Why I'm asking this because the recently launched Camry received a 70,000 relief from the government under the FAME (Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Electric vehicles in India) scheme.

As per FAME vehicles greater than 4 metres length are eligible for a relief ranging from 11,000 to 1,38,000.

So in effect, Maruti might end up passing most if not all the benefit to the customer. The price may not go up by much if it does at all.
It would depend on how the government defines a hybrid vehicle. According to me this car wouldn't qualify as a hybrid as the electric motor cannot work independently like in the prius. The motor runs only when the engine is running.

Last edited by rockporiom : 14th August 2015 at 00:17.
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Old 14th August 2015, 05:44   #51
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Rockporiom- A vehicle can qualify as hybrid even if motor cannot work independently. Honda Civic hybrid motor cannot work independently...
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Old 14th August 2015, 06:08   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X202 View Post
A belt assist system like SVHS will not add to a performance improvement or help you in improved top speed!

You can expect an improved vehicle start(crank) and a hybrid badge.

You can see Nissan Serena Hybrids which are in market which have similar arrangement and doesn't talk of any performance improvement.

N I don't expect much benefit from SVHS in real life driving apart from what comes from Engine Stop Start function which can be seen in Tata Ace and MnM Scorpio
If that is the case then why plonk it only in diesels?. All petrol cars are less fuel efficient than diesels nowadays in india. Why can't they use it in petrol cars if MSIL really wants to pass on the benifits of mileage to the customers?. Isn't the technology still there for petrol? . In diesel the already have a detuned underperforming engine just because they want fuel economy to be high. Then what is the use of plonking svhs in a diesel rather than petrol Ciaz?
If this is not going to add any realtime benefit I believe it is a mere eyewash by maruti to increase the price midterm before the facelift. If not then why should they do all these gimmicks and fool customers and create a hype.
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Old 14th August 2015, 08:49   #53
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The Ciaz will be called Ciaz SHVS (Smart Hybrid Vehicle by Maruti Suzuki). It will feature a Smart Hybrid Engine that connotes "Class & Fineness". This will result in smoother driving experience. New Maruti Ciaz SHVS will feature micro hybrid tech which is seen on Mahindra cars*for some years.

What this system does is it will switch-off the car when you stop at a traffic light. The engine comes back to life when you release clutch (the leaked image below reveals the same, see inset). This system will enable the car to return a better fuel efficiency.

Apart from this, the talks about Blue Technology and how Maruti will become the first mass car maker in India to launch the same. Again we are not sure what this Blue Technology is, but considering that Mercedes has BlueTec, and VW has BlueMotion, which reduce harmful emissions from engine. We guess Maruti's Blue technology will also work in similar fashion.

We expect the SHVS tech to be offered on Maruti Suzuki cars in the future.

Considering Mercedes and VW's respective Blue technology are pre-dominantly seen on diesel powered cars, expect Maruti Ciaz Hybrid Blue tech to be on offer with diesel engine only. The existing Ciaz diesel claims 26.21 kmpl mileage, we won't be surprised ifMaruti Ciaz once again becomes India's most fuel efficient car (currently Celerio diesel owns the title with 27.62 kmpl mileage).
Not sure what Maruti is trying with the Ciaz but hope they know what they are getting out. Not to forget the effects on Turbo cooling and the idling required for diesel engines. Hope it is taken care of in this SHVS.

I feel this is more of an eyewash by using all these high end names and tagging it "hybrid". I cannot any need for this in the Ciaz at this moment. All that the Ciaz now needs desperately is a slightly more powerful engine that delivers best of both worlds - FE & Performance.

By performance it should be respectful and the same silly 1.3L MJD at 90PS. Sorry guys but for me that engine isn't suitable for that car, the 1.3L is good till Swift / Ritz but not the above class.

Now went they choose the DDIS engine to plonk the SHVS into could be for pollution norms 'may be' and further glorify the tag line of "Kitna Deti Hai!!"

Not to forget the similarities in bagging as below (Blue colored):

-- AMT variants of Celerio and Alto K10;
-- Nissan group of cars with the dCi badges;
-- Now Ciaz with the SHVS.

A video:



SOURCE: http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-ciaz-...-12158222.html

Last edited by a4anurag : 14th August 2015 at 09:15.
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Old 14th August 2015, 08:54   #54
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post
Can someone elaborate the usefulness of svhs? Is this going to help it beat the turbo lag? Or is this going to help the car pull faster after 110kmph speed?. I personally felt the car underpowered when I drove it. I didn't like the way the engine strained for pulling after 110kmph. If this technology is going to be of help in this I might give it another shot and shortlist it for buying. Can someone throw more information?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeash View Post
If that is the case then why plonk it only in diesels?. All petrol cars are less fuel efficient than diesels nowadays in india. Why can't they use it in petrol cars if MSIL really wants to pass on the benifits of mileage to the customers?. Isn't the technology still there for petrol? . In diesel the already have a detuned underperforming engine just because they want fuel economy to be high. Then what is the use of plonking svhs in a diesel rather than petrol Ciaz?
If this is not going to add any realtime benefit I believe it is a mere eyewash by maruti to increase the price midterm before the facelift. If not then why should they do all these gimmicks and fool customers and create a hype.
Hi Geeash. I will try to answer to your questions.

First - SVHS and performance
This is a mild hybrid system and can be used either for better efficiency (ala Maruti's USP) or better performance (ala Merc/BMW/Audi - They are still testing it as per my knowledge). It all depends upon what size of ISG and battery is used in a particular vehicle. We can't really expect Ciaz will have it for performance (can we?). Objective here is to reduce fuel consumption in lower gears and use energy while breaking, which otherwise is wasted. So please don't expect any performance enhancement post 110kmph.

Second - Why only with Diesel engine?
It is absolutely possible to integrate this system with any sort of IC engine. But manufacturers bring in petrol engine for buyers who want acquisition cost of a vehicle to be lower. Whereas diesel engines for FE conscious buyers (I am talking about majority of buyers here, not petrol heads like us).
Now Honda has tried to turn the game on Maruti's head by playing the FE card be it with Honda City or Amaze. We can only expect that Maruti will up its ante.
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Old 14th August 2015, 13:14   #55
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

It is good that the leading car manufacturer is not resting on laurels and is continuously doing something to thwart competition and maintain its position. Ciaz is a very good product.
Though new technologies will bring incremental benefits to the new users, it would be very appealing to new buyers if maruti can bring the 320DDiS to Ciaz. That would set the cat among the pigeons.

But i doubt it will happen as it would cannabalize the S-Cross sales to a very large extent and MSIL might not want that.
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Old 14th August 2015, 19:19   #56
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I bet MSIL would never do that. Ciaz is a mass market car and SCross is a premium offering. Since ciaz is a mass market one they have to price it in market range for that car which is below 15 lakhs. If 1.6 is offered at a lower price in Ciaz who would buy a 17 lakh car.

Last edited by geeash : 14th August 2015 at 19:20.
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Old 17th August 2015, 14:37   #57
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

How would this system perform under our indian conditions? The ISG is a system integrated into the flywheel. If it gets submerged in water it could go for a toss. In any other car the alternator is located much higher. And the usual starter motor seems to tolerate water quite well. Not sure how the ISG would work in conditions that prevail in Chennai or Bangalore. I'm sure water would reach the flywheel in waterlogged situations. I would keep away from this system until I get a concrete answer on this. There have been many a situation where I have driven in quite deep water in these places and got away with just a juddering clutch which would fix itself when it becomes dry.
Also supposing that the system is belt driven instead of being integrated into the flywheel, we are asking for more trouble. If the belt goes loose like the usual alternator belt, then there is all probability of getting stranded somewhere with the car unable to crank. Even my nano AMT gives me trouble when driving through deep water with the gears getting confused!

Last edited by alphahere : 17th August 2015 at 15:07.
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Old 18th August 2015, 14:03   #58
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
How would this system perform under our indian conditions? The ISG is a system integrated into the flywheel. If it gets submerged in water it could go for a toss. In any other car the alternator is located much higher. And the usual starter motor seems to tolerate water quite well. Not sure how the ISG would work in conditions that prevail in Chennai or Bangalore. I'm sure water would reach the flywheel in waterlogged situations. I would keep away from this system until I get a concrete answer on this. There have been many a situation where I have driven in quite deep water in these places and got away with just a juddering clutch which would fix itself when it becomes dry.
Also supposing that the system is belt driven instead of being integrated into the flywheel, we are asking for more trouble. If the belt goes loose like the usual alternator belt, then there is all probability of getting stranded somewhere with the car unable to crank. Even my nano AMT gives me trouble when driving through deep water with the gears getting confused!
Hi alphahere.

You need not worry at all. If Maruti Suzuki wants to keep prices of Ciaz SVHS low, then it would have to go the mild hybrid route (P1 type Hybrid).

Please check the image below.

Source - http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgur...FYRWFAod-XsBpA

BSG (Belted starter generator) in the image is ISG (Integrated starter generator). The ISG in this case is always in line with crank pulley and at a sufficient height.

What you are talking about (ISG integrated with flywheel) is a P2 type of hybrid. Here the ISG required is of higher power and the battery is usually above 240V. This makes it a costly affair.
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Old 19th August 2015, 02:50   #59
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
I do not think their low sales volumes are because of the impending launch, but because Ciaz is not selling in volumes. By being the market leader, they would have expected it to outsell the Honda City. I think the hype on this product is coming down.
New technologies such as AMT gearbox and now this start/stop system will gain mass market acceptance, if the market leader Maruti Suzuki introduces them. We have seen it time and again. So, why wouldn't they take a step further and give full safety kit with 6 air bags, ABS, EBD, ESP,Hill hold, etc at least in their top variant?
Currently even Ciaz and their premium offering S-Cross do not get such kits!
If they start doing it, other manufacturers have no excuse to dodge and wait until the new laws are made!
The features you mention are already available in plenty except may be for the Hill hold. But then, our junta, doesn't not want pay extra for these features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadSurfer View Post
Hi Geeash. I will try to answer to your questions.



Second - Why only with Diesel engine?
It is absolutely possible to integrate this system with any sort of IC engine. But manufacturers bring in petrol engine for buyers who want acquisition cost of a vehicle to be lower. Whereas diesel engines for FE conscious buyers (I am talking about majority of buyers here, not petrol heads like us).
Now Honda has tried to turn the game on Maruti's head by playing the FE card be it with Honda City or Amaze. We can only expect that Maruti will up its ante.
I don't buy that logic, I thought the Ciaz D was already quite efficient, so they are making it more efficient ? Any updates on what kind of differences in FE we can see ? My relative has a Micro Hybrid Scorpio, he has experienced hardly .5 kmpl change in the mileage that too he isnt sure if its because of the Micro hybrid. Ideally, they should have made the petrol more economical, many people buy petrol since their running might be low, and petrols are simpler and cheaper to maintain. They could have done with some extra mileage

Looks like a semi-gimmick since the Ciaz isn't able to hold its ground against the City or the Verna. But appreciate Maruti coming up with something substantial instead of a sticker job as they usually do.
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Old 19th August 2015, 08:14   #60
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Default re: Maruti Ciaz SHVS with Integrated Starter Generator & idling start / stop system. EDIT: Now Launched!

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Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post

Looks like a semi-gimmick since the Ciaz isn't able to hold its ground against the City or the Verna.
Verna? Ciaz has been selling more than Verna MOM since its launch.
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