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Old 23rd September 2015, 08:57   #226
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
You can't jump 15 years forward with our current mind set. Please stop comparing EU to India, we are no where near there.
My 1.5 118 PS City is considered "fast" according to the official review. But in Europe? It would have been termed as "barely bareable".
Why should Fiat produce a car for a market that doesn't exist? And why this pointless criticism now, why not when VW launched the GT?
What is so " Gran Touring " or " Gran Turismo" about it when a Hyundai Getz CRDI can smoke it!
You want full blown versions of performance cars but will you buy them?
For example, Mitsubishi launched the Evo here but everyone thought it's overpriced and they would rather get a diesel 5 series. The beemer was frankly a boat compared to that.
For the record VW didnt release their top end polo as the GTI or the GTD which denotes their full on performance versions. They just subtely labelled it as a GT to make a demarcation from the normal models. They sell the 1.2 tsi as the bluemotion GT globally. Had they named the 1.2 tsi as a GTI then it would have been equivalent to what Fiat is doing now.

An under 20 lakh hatchback with the performance of a straight 6 BMW 5 series if marketed properly is not going to go unnoticed, not by a long shot in this era of media coverage. If the original VRS here in India was a hit in the big metros a decade ago I think there is a reasonable chance of a well priced serious abarth making its mark today in our market as well. It wont be selling in the tens of thousands but if anything it will serve the purpose of halo car much more profoundly than what the 350z was meant to be for nissan and the evo was meant for mitsubishi or even the current 595 does for fiat since it is actually within close range of affordability and practicality.

And yes if something like an abarth is sold here, my name will definitely be on the customer list.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 09:26   #227
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

My My! Fiat is launching something which is by far the most powerful hatchback in India (available below 10 Lakhs) and is also 40% more powerful than the next hot hatch in the market yet we crib.

I believe Certain companies only manage to brickbats from the public. If anything I believe we should be lauding Fiat to have finally woken up and given us a truly good offering at a reasonable price. Yeah I know the Gear box is still the proverbial fly in the ointment. But Stil..
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Old 23rd September 2015, 10:31   #228
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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
I think the common misconception is that an enthusiast is someone who likes to drive fast all the time, which is so not true. I think this quote I got of the net says it best.



An individual that loves anything to do with cars and their counterparts, one who can talk for hours about cars and not get tired of it. These people do not hate on others for their vehicle choice and modifications (so called "rice" is irrelevant, that is total shit) but simply encourage creativity and learning. These people are in a somewhat small but lively community worldwide which engages in car meets, TV shows, blogs, forums, games, magazines, etc. Some enjoy just talking about their rides and others like to get their hands greasy. There are those who put time and money into a project car that brings pride to themselves and a beautiful sight and sound for others. Some enthusiasts will form their own cliques such as drifters or those at the drag strip. There are the young teenagers who have less resources but can manage to build up a nice ride and learn from the best. Some enthusiasts prefer American muscle over imports and vice-versa. Some of us bump our music cruisin' down the road. We can look at any car and say anything about it: where it's from, it's drivetrain, it's value. For some it is all about that great rear-wheel drive. Sometimes we just want to get in our car and drive a hundred or so miles to think over things and enjoy the car for what it does, what it's capable of in your hands as a driver. Car enthusiasts will always be where the cars are, sharing our love of the automobile for what a car is, art.



And for me this line says it all.



Sometimes we just want to get in our car and drive a hundred or so miles to think over things and enjoy the car for what it does, what it's capable of in your hands as a driver

Ahh absolutely spot on!!! I think this should solve most arguments involving the term enthusiasts.

Whether we crib or rejoice,the punto abarth is going to be a punto abarth and definitely not an esseesse atleast in the near future. The best thing for us would be WAIT till its launched,drive it and enjoy it.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:01   #229
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Let Fiat release the complete specs - for brakes, suspension, GC everything. Right now whatever was showcased to the media in the 595 launch is not final.

All I'm saying is, let the car launch, let the complete specs be declared and then comment.
If you still don't like it, then you may very well go and buy the Abarth 595 Competizione.

Last edited by jetti : 23rd September 2015 at 11:03.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:06   #230
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
For the record VW didnt release their top end polo as the GTI or the GTD which denotes their full on performance versions. They just subtely labelled it as a GT to make a demarcation from the normal models. They sell the 1.2 tsi as the bluemotion GT globally. Had they named the 1.2 tsi as a GTI then it would have been equivalent to what Fiat is doing now.

An under 20 lakh hatchback with the performance of a straight 6 BMW 5 series if marketed properly is not going to go unnoticed, not by a long shot in this era of media coverage. If the original VRS here in India was a hit in the big metros a decade ago I think there is a reasonable chance of a well priced serious abarth making its mark today in our market as well. It wont be selling in the tens of thousands but if anything it will serve the purpose of halo car much more profoundly than what the 350z was meant to be for nissan and the evo was meant for mitsubishi or even the current 595 does for fiat since it is actually within close range of affordability and practicality.

And yes if something like an abarth is sold here, my name will definitely be on the customer list.
The GT badge is nothing small,even firms like Porsche used it for their halo cars.
You're taking the abarth badge too seriously. Abarth was a tuning firm separate from Fiat unlike M which was started by BMW. They weren't only limited to Fiat's but became popular for their insane mods on Fiat's. They are now a part of FCA. Abarth's purpose is to spice and juice normal Fiat's and I think that's what they have done here.

While I do agree that this isn't close the "real thing " it still is a handful. The difference between a 90 Hp and this Indian abarth is almost a staggering 6 seconds, making the slowest hatch in this segment the fastest.
Granted the UK version does it in seven or so,but the 75 HP Punto there does 60 in 13 seconds,a lot quicker than the one here.
If fiat had launched an Essesse for 20L,this is what would've happened.
Enthusiasts will jump in the air,set it as wallpaper on their PC and start planning to get the funds to get one. When the point will come when they are ready to buy a car,they would just go to VW and get a Jetta TDI. A remaped would almost be as quick,would be cheaper to run,much more practical and a "big car".
How many enthusiasts would shell 20 lacs for a 2005 Fiat hatchback in India?
Not a lot,nowhere near as you think.
I would anyday get an essesse over a Jetta but then I would rather go for this mild version which is 70% of the car for 50% of the price of the real thing.

Let's appreciate Fiat for what they have done and look at the brighter side. IMO after the VRS and the Palio 1.6,its the only true car aimed at enthusiasts.
If Fiat India is like a man who has made some mistakes in the past and is very regretful,trying hard to change and work over them but sadly the world is too cold hearted to give him a chance!
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:11   #231
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Wow, now this is mind blowing. I think this has to be the first automotive forum in the world where people said, "no we don't want a real hot hatch, we prefer a mere tarted up version of the original car with lots of stickers on it, so that it is more practical and useable and cheaper".
Kids have to crawl on their knees first, before they start walking, or running. If a mother wishes to see the kid take its first baby steps, it doesn't mean they don't want the baby to walk or run ever!

A 145bhp Punto Abarth at 10L is that baby step for the market. A chance to upgrade from the usual crop of hot hatches that make 80-90ps. The real Abarth Punto is the running step, which no one would buy currently at 20L. First, let's crawl on our knees, and then think about running shall we?

Funnily enough- when the thread started, everyone said the whole Abarth thing was a joke because it would be priced over the moon for what is essentially a sportier version of a regular hatch. Now when it's priced closer to reality- they have a problem that it is watered down.

PS- I find it really surprising that most of the negative comments on the thread are coming from VW /GT owners. I thought FIAT and VW were essentially similar in a lot of ways and hence they should essentially understand each other. If VW group could call a 105ps hatchback as a "Grand Tourer" and a kitted up Octavia as the "victor Rally Sport" and these were welcomed by the market with both hands open, I think the Abarth Punto deserves a similar ovation?

Once the market matures enough that this Punto becomes obsolete as a "hot" product, we can cry foul at FIAT to launch something hotter!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd September 2015 at 11:25.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:45   #232
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Kids have to crawl on their knees first, before they start walking, or running.
I think the comment was not against the car, but more on naming it as an Abarth - almost like saying that a crawling kid can actually run. Infact pretty much similar to what you mentioned on the Laura vRS (think that's what you meant, not the Octavia)

I personally would have liked the car to be called a Punto t-Jet but can understand why Fiat went down this route. A capable car with a changed logo may prove hugely beneficial for them. I really hope this model bring in some good numbers; by our current hot-hatch standards this is right up there.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:46   #233
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
[b]
PS- I find it really surprising that most of the negative comments on the thread are coming from VW /GT owners. I thought FIAT and VW were essentially similar in a lot of ways and hence they should essentially understand each other. If VW group could call a 105ps hatchback as a "Grand Tourer" and a kitted up Octavia as the "victor Rally Sport" and these were welcomed by the market with both hands open, I think the Abarth Punto deserves a similar ovation?

Once the market matures enough that this Punto becomes obsolete as a "hot" product, we can cry foul at FIAT to launch something hotter!
This is what I was wondering, I was also of the impression that Ford/VW/ Fiat and other European cars have a lot in common than their Asian rivals.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 11:55   #234
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

I earlier thought the Indian 2 wheeler market is heating up with all the amazing options, now I am extremely excited to witness this car in person. I never would have imagined having a ~150bhp hatchback in India, we needed it so bad. I have absolutely no intentions of buying this car, but cant wait to test drive it. I really really hope this car is successful so that other manufacturers take notice and launch hot hatches. I hate the fact that we need to spend astronomical amounts of money to get anything over 150hp.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 12:05   #235
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I think the comment was not against the car, but more on naming it as an Abarth - almost like saying that a crawling kid can actually run.
In the UK, when the Abarth came out in 2007 - it had 155bhp when the normal Punto (along with the segment standards) was 120bhp. Here we have the regular Punto producing 89bhp, the segment producing 80-105bhp maximum, and we have the Abarth producing 145bhp.

I do understand that the kid can run, but all I'm saying is that if he tries to run without crawling on his knees first, all we get is a smashed up nose.

And as I said earlier, Abarth is no Ferrari - to have the brand name "diluted". It just means a performance version of FIAT cars, and that defenition varies from market to market, based on the requirements.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd September 2015 at 12:07.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 12:06   #236
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Wow, now this is mind blowing. I think this has to be the first automotive forum in the world where people said, "no we don't want a real hot hatch, we prefer a mere tarted up version of the original car with lots of stickers on it, so that it is more practical and useable and cheaper". Well yeah no kidding, such a diluted car would be more useable and cheaper since it's also much worse than the real thing. Well then how about just selling the normal 1.4 as an abarth. That is even more practical and even more cheaper, right?
...

And you know what Fiat is also capable of selling a car which does 0-100 in 7 seconds, a Punto Abarth. The Real one. 0-100 in 7 seconds felt volcanic in a 2 tonne SUV, what on earth would be the result in a car like a punto?
It's not that people don't want or like it it, just that they have set a reasonable expectation, may be because they really have a plan to buy one. It is easy for someone who is not particularly interested in this brand to comment like you have done, but Fiat has to be out of their mind to listen to that. If you are not seeing it, they are desperate to sell some cars. There are much bigger players who can certainly afford to launch such products, but probably not doing so only because it doesn't make much business sense.

You can also put it this way - this is all (at the moment) we deserve. So, let's appreciate that and be happy.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 12:55   #237
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
In the UK, when the Abarth came out in 2007 - it had 155bhp when the normal Punto (along with the segment standards) was 120bhp. Here we have the regular Punto producing 89bhp, the segment producing 80-105bhp maximum, and we have the Abarth producing 145bhp.

I do understand that the kid can run, but all I'm saying is that if he tries to run without crawling on his knees first, all we get is a smashed up nose.

And as I said earlier, Abarth is no Ferrari - to have the brand name "diluted". It just means a performance version of FIAT cars, and that defenition varies from market to market, based on the requirements.
If fiat themselves have this same mindest that their own performance arm is not a big deal for anybody well then all I can say is, its just sad. It's upto them to create the brand, not anybody else. Offering half hearted attempts as you said it ain't going to make much difference. Just put it this way, if vw seizes the opportunity and coughes up a proper gti for 16 lakhs this whole abarth thing will look like a joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
It's not that people don't want or like it it, just that they have set a reasonable expectation, may be because they really have a plan to buy one. It is easy for someone who is not particularly interested in this brand to comment like you have done, but Fiat has to be out of their mind to listen to that. If you are not seeing it, they are desperate to sell some cars. There are much bigger players who can certainly afford to launch such products, but probably not doing so only because it doesn't make much business sense.

You can also put it this way - this is all (at the moment) we deserve. So, let's appreciate that and be happy.
You are right, I am not that into this whole brand loyalty/affinity thing. What matters to me is the end product and its prospective ownership.

Was a big fan of Honda India, not anymore now with all their mobilio and brv business. I don't care about vw either. Just a petrol head wondering if he will ever be able to in his lifetime all own those juicy no bullshit blue blooded driver's cars that appear on top gear/ YouTube ..etc and drive them right out of showroom at realistic prices with a warranty while still living in my mother country.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 13:14   #238
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I heard that On the Road price in cochin is 11.3 lakhs. If that is the case, I don't think they even need to bother launching it. Another DOA product by Fiat India

Seriously, anything above the GT Tsi and the chances of success are almost NIL.

Add to that the ad's for the car are really poorly thought out. There is no indication of the power or the speciality of the car. It just looks like one of those million 'sticker editions'




Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
I am sure the maps on this car will be different from what is found on the Linea T-Jet. Apart from that, does anyone have any information on what are the mechanical differences between this and the Linea T-Jet? If any Linea T-Jet owner wants to make these upgrades to his car, would that be possible? What would it take?
It was mentioned by a fiat engineer that there is a difference in the turbo, compared to the Linea.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 13:19   #239
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
If fiat themselves have this same mindest that their own performance arm is not a big deal for anybody well then all I can say is, its just sad.
So now, a 145bhp turbo petrol hatch, with good handling characteristics is "not a big deal for anybody". While not so long ago, you thought the 105bhp GT was "mind blowing".

Frankly, why the dual stance buddy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Just put it this way, if vw seizes the opportunity and coughes up a proper gti for 16 lakhs this whole abarth thing will look like a joke.
It would be brilliant if VW does that. And I'm sure everyone on this forum would applaud that move by VW. All we want is better choices for us customers.

But how does that take away anything from the fact that the Abarth Punto is the first step in that direction of affordable performance?

Let VW bring the GTI first and make it succeed, I would be one of the first to criticize FIAT if they dont launch another hardcore version of the Punto to counter that move by VW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Just a petrol head wondering if he will ever be able to in his lifetime all own those juicy no bullshit blue blooded driver's cars that appear on top gear/ YouTube ..etc and drive them right out of showroom at realistic prices with a warranty while still living in my mother country.
And if i remember correctly (and I do), you proclaimed that you couldnt buy the Punto only because of the powertrain. The sole reason you had to go buy a GT is for the powertrain, and that Punto has the "best sorted dynamics" out there, let down by the powertrain.

Now FIAT comes with an option for guys like you who had to look at other brands earlier because FIAT didnt have a powerful engine choice in their lineup - it is shot down for being watered down?

Incase you forgot which post I'm referring to, qouting it here - Your very own words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
JYou must realize one thing CD. These are just normal hatchbacks. We are not in some super track day special hatchback market. We are not shopping for a Renaultsport or a Mugen honda. Most of the people have just 9 lakhs in their arsenal and want a cracking car and the best value for their money at the same time.

When we were looking for a car the options were as follows:
The top of the line Punto sports- 8.7 lakhs OTR.(new stock)
Hyundai i20 sportz- 8.05 lakhs OTR
Polo GT TDI- 9.05 lakhs OTR (free insurance)

Now the punto has the best sorted dynamics of the three. Yes I know that. But it also has the worst drivetrain. A regular guy, a car lover who is going to buy his only car, if he test drives all three the results can swing in anyway depending on the mindset of the buyer. BUT as far as I have seen the most probable thing he is going to do is praise the punto and then not buy it.

Being an engine guy is the sole reason why I even ended up at that predicament of whether to choose between a GT TSI or a GT TDI. Otherwise I would have brought a Punto.
Echoes the Indian customer well though. When we buy cars, we want it for regular roads. When a company launches cars - we criticize its not made out for trackdays. lol

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd September 2015 at 13:25.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 14:08   #240
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

It is always that some manufacturer get all the brickbats for whatever they do and Fiat ranks top among them.

All these days, the Punto was a dud due to the power-train, lethargic 0-100 numbers and what not. Fiat does Punto Abarth by plonking 145 bhp version Tjet with stiffer underpinnings and GC lowered by 30mm and gives a sub 10 sec ton mark, the attention is turned towards the gearbox and shift quality to crib about.

It is commendable that VW and Fiat is actually giving us a watered down versions (as it is being called here) for the minuscule % of the market which is way better than providing a stickers version and calling it sporty.

PS: Surprising to see the pattern that most of them who are having issues with the Abarth are the VW GT owners.

PPS: the GTI at 20 Lakhs or the Abarth SS at 16 or 18 lakhs wont fetch the numbers. Having a watered down versions in the form of GT and Abarth (Evo) at least will find a few homes.
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