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Old 23rd September 2015, 20:47   #256
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

When the Linea T-Jet was originally launched, it was detuned to 112 HP Vs the 120 HP that it was sold in rest of the world. Then there was no hue and cry. Wonder what all the fuss is about 145 HP, being called Abarth, etc.

I was away from this forum for three years. Sounds like nothing much has changed, at least when it comes to FIAT. Being a second time FIAT owner - first I had a Palio and now the Linea T-Jet - I have learnt this over the years. I own the car, not the brand. So, I would rather spend my energies maintaining the car that I already own, than crying foul about things that I can neither change nor directly affect me.

That said, I wish FIAT all the very best with this new car. Cheers.

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 23rd September 2015 at 20:48.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 20:54   #257
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

The indian market has always been odd.
When the manufacturers provide us with a nice car, we complain about the mileage (read Palio GTX, Fiesta S,Hyundai Tornado) and when they do dare to launch one, most of the junta would not touch it with a bargepole.

The enthusiasts say 145hp and the junta asks 'kitna deti hai'! Honestly, do we really expect the car to sip on nothing and produce those horses out of thin air(literally!!)

Then comes the brickbats with the pricing around how cars are really expensive in India etc.
So, there are two threads here:
One, where we want international quality and international standard products.
And two, where we want the same stuff at a cheaper price.

The Fiat Punto Evo Abarth when launched in UK in 2010, cost approx 17000 for the base variant. Doing a quick inflation analysis, it works out to 19500 in 2015.
If we really want the car that was the same Abarth that was sold internationally, are we going to really shell out 20lacs INR on a hatchback??

Another example:
Skoda Octavia mid variant with the 1.4TSI costs 20000 with 0%APR in UK (my friend bought one last week). Almost the same price that it retails for in India, without goodies like an in-built satnav, adaptive cruise control, automatic braking and auto park assist. So, if we really want the same quality as the car that gets driven around in UK/Europe, we have to shell out the cash.

So, we either get a compromise for the price we pay for (and it is not a compromise at all!!) or if we want the real deal, then be ready to shell out the moolah. We can definitely not have the best of both the worlds.

That said, Abarth Evos were not the best hot hatch when it got launched. Let us also have the Fiesta RS (give me the watered down version for India) and lets have Renault get the cojones to launch Clio/ClioSport, and VeeDub give the real GTi, and until then, 145 bhp@10lacs INR would be the cheapest set of fun horses around, probably across the world!

Personally, I WANT the Fiesta RS or the Toyota GT86
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Old 23rd September 2015, 21:10   #258
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Look at this in the middle of this heated discussion. Looks like Fiat indeed listens to this forum - the chrome lining around fog lamps are gone.

A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!-047.jpg

source
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Old 23rd September 2015, 21:15   #259
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by super.cars View Post
Look at this in the middle of this heated discussion. Looks like Fiat indeed listens to this forum - the chrome lining around fog lamps are gone.
This is not the one that is being launched in India, is it? Your source link, just opens the same image in a new tab

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 23rd September 2015 at 21:35.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 21:16   #260
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by super.cars View Post
Look at this in the middle of this heated discussion. Looks like Fiat indeed listens to this forum - the chrome lining around fog lamps are gone.

Attachment 1418878

source
I dont think thats the one we are getting. Thats the international Punto EVO launched a few years back. We have our own EVO on which the Abarth would be based.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 21:21   #261
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Damn, i missed to see the "supersport" tag on the picture. Guys you are right, this isn't india version. Must have been an error on that website. Apologies for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
This is not the one the is being launched in India, is it? Your source link, just open the same image in a new tab
I got that from cardekho.com - link

Last edited by super.cars : 23rd September 2015 at 21:25.
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Old 24th September 2015, 00:00   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
Really ? Why should it undercut the GT according to you ? I wish they price it around the GT, may be about 50K- 1L over it. Its not like the GT commands any cult status in India, nor its a benchmark. Like most have already mentioned, many have bought the GT just for the Auto.

Your view on price is simply hilarious.

The Polo tsi has cutting edge technology like the TSI motor and the 7 speed DSG. What does the Punto have to command a premium over the normal car? A petrol motor lifted from one of the slowest selling sedans in the market? Cheesy looking stripes? Or maybe that lousy driving position and horrible Gearbox.

145 bhp does not make it an all rounder.

While I appreciate Fiat for bringing it out, it's just too little too late. This should have come along with the evo face-lift. (which they ruined by launching the avvy)



India has given Fiat far more chances than it has to any other company. And fiat had taken every step to ensure that they screwed up everytime.

The only way to entice customers is to either offer an automatic / AMT in the diesel Punto, and a shocker price for the Abarth.

P. S: Abarth has no cult following in India. Infavt, out if hardcore fiat circles, it's not even known
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Old 24th September 2015, 01:31   #263
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Your view on price is simply hilarious.

The Polo tsi has cutting edge technology like the TSI motor and the 7 speed DSG. What does the Punto have to command a premium over the normal car? A petrol motor lifted from one of the slowest selling sedans in the market? Cheesy looking stripes? Or maybe that lousy driving position and horrible Gearbox.

145 bhp does not make it an all rounder.

While I appreciate Fiat for bringing it out, it's just too little too late. This should have come along with the evo face-lift. (which they ruined by launching the avvy)

India has given Fiat far more chances than it has to any other company. And fiat had taken every step to ensure that they screwed up everytime.

The only way to entice customers is to either offer an automatic / AMT in the diesel Punto, and a shocker price for the Abarth.

P. S: Abarth has no cult following in India. Infavt, out if hardcore fiat circles, it's not even known
1. Glad I was able to amuse you.
2. So the TSI and the DSG makes it the GT an all rounder ? I dint say the Abarth is an all rounder anywhere.
3. 145 bhp doesn't require a premium over the normal Punto 1.4 Fire ? the 90 HP MJD version sells at 50K premium over the 76Hp MJD Punto. Then according your POV the 90HP itself is very overpriced! The 1.4 FIRE is priced at 9.1Lac on the road, now adding a lac for additional kit and some snob value, brings it to 10.1Lac which is about 20K over the GT TSI. Not considering any discounts on either side, so going by their current pricing, the car will anyways tip over the GT pricing. Just another comparison, the marginally bigger S-Cross DDiS 320 is priced 17.50lacs!
4. Slowest selling doesn't make Linea a bad car, the Global Fiesta was slow seller too. Those who own one knows what the car is, same with the Linea T-Jet.
5. Abarth has no cult following in India, I don't recollect anyone say that here either.
6. EVO Facelift came a year back! Thats not too long ago, you need to factor in the minuscule market they have. They cant launch new cars at will like MSIL or HMSI.
7. No matter what they price it, going by their track record, we know pretty much what the market response would be. They might sell 100/month if they are real lucky, unless some miracle happens. I guess Fiat knows this as well.
8. Finally, its Fiats car and the consumers money. FCA can price it what they want, customers will buy what they want. Basically, they have a new offering, go there if you are interested, else walk on!

P.S. This is an open forum, if you feel its overpriced, I have the freedom to have a contradicting opinion ! Your sense of humor wasn't really appreciated. No, before you get there, I am no Fanboy, I have a Fiat and a Toyota, very happy with both.
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Old 24th September 2015, 01:45   #264
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by super.cars View Post
Damn, i missed to see the "supersport" tag on the picture. Guys you are right, this isn't india version. Must have been an error on that website. Apologies for the confusion.



I got that from cardekho.com - link
It's not about supersport. Grande Punto (earlier; it's been discontinued now) in UK or Punto Evo is different from India's. Right now it's just called Punto. It has the same interiors as our Evo but the exteriors are slightly different. The pic' that you have posted is that of Abarth Punto Evo. Our Evo is different with regards to exteriors pertaining to the front.
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Old 24th September 2015, 01:52   #265
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Your view on price is simply hilarious.

The Polo tsi has cutting edge technology like the TSI motor and the 7 speed DSG. What does the Punto have to command a premium over the normal car? A petrol motor lifted from one of the slowest selling sedans in the market? Cheesy looking stripes? Or maybe that lousy driving position and horrible Gearbox.

145 bhp does not make it an all rounder.

While I appreciate Fiat for bringing it out, it's just too little too late. This should have come along with the evo face-lift. (which they ruined by launching the avvy)



India has given Fiat far more chances than it has to any other company. And fiat had taken every step to ensure that they screwed up everytime.

The only way to entice customers is to either offer an automatic / AMT in the diesel Punto, and a shocker price for the Abarth.

P. S: Abarth has no cult following in India. Infavt, out if hardcore fiat circles, it's not even known

Agreed TSI may be cutting edge technology, but as a driver what matters to me is does the the TSI beat the 145 BHP of the Abarth.

100 odd BHP of the GT TSI is now matched with the now launched Aspire Figo, Figo may not have all the features that GT offers but it is couple of lakhs less.

Coming to Fan or Cult following, I think it is a little premature to say it has no following, let it sell a few and the marketing take effect, more and more enthusiasts will be aware of what it can do, maybe than it will have a cult status.

GearBox - I am not sure about this, since I am yet to come across a detailed review on the gearbox, I hope they fix the ratios.
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Old 24th September 2015, 02:30   #266
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
The Polo tsi has cutting edge technology like the TSI motor and the 7 speed DSG.
And let's understand what they are charging for it.

Regular Polo Highline Petrol - Rs 6,58,808 ex-showroom.
Polo GT TSi - Rs 8,62,771/- ex-showroom.

The difference is about two lakhs. For mainly the engine and transmission. All that cutting edge comes at a heavy price too, my friend.

Still-
1. It's way less powerful
2. Slower inspite of the lightening quick DSG.
3. Has handling at par with the Punto with raised suspension. Remains to be seen if it can match the Punto Abarth with lowered and stiffened springs.
4. Can't hold a candle to the hydraulic steering of the Punto.
5. Doesn't over any advantage in the braking department over the regular Polo inspite of having additional 30ps.
6. Looks visually similar to the regular Polo except for some minor tweaks.
7. Has less interior space.
8. Has big time reliability concerns over the infamous DQ200 7 speed box.

So let's see - Punto Abarth scores on engine, performance, handling (will need to wait for official review on this one), steering feel, braking, looks (cheesy to you, but can we accept atleast those alloys are delicious?), interior space and reliability.

Still it's not an all rounder because GT scores on more comfort in the form of an automatic transmission and better driving position?

I feel both can co-exist in the market at competing prices. Anyways, even FIAT wouldn't be expecting record sales for the Punto Abarth. So not sure why we are worried on it!

PS- And then there is the government that taxes 1.4 TJet more than 1.2 TSi.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 24th September 2015 at 02:45.
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Old 24th September 2015, 06:39   #267
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From what I know FIAT always had a great hatch line up. Remember the S10's and the GTX's more than 10 years. They were early movers, however our market was not so "enthusiastic" then as they did not find a huge response in terms of numbers, although they sold comparatively well.

Now this is another attempt being made by them and I read that they have taken many things into account apart from the structural stability that is already on offer (well, that is one reason they could confidently plonk that power in there).
Irrespective of the point if the car sells or not it remains a fact that FIAT is making another important move which may open other options in our market and this fact should definitely be appreciated.
Anyways, people who do not want to buy it will ignore it for their own reasons.

Cheers,
pdma.

Last edited by pdma : 24th September 2015 at 06:48.
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Old 24th September 2015, 08:47   #268
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
The Polo tsi has cutting edge technology like the TSI motor and the 7 speed DSG. What does the Punto have to command a premium over the normal car? A petrol motor lifted from one of the slowest selling sedans in the market? Cheesy looking stripes? Or maybe that lousy driving position and horrible Gearbox.

145 bhp does not make it an all rounder.
I feel this I am better than you (GT TSI v/s Punto T-Jet) argument is quite uncalled for. There is nothing much cutting edge about the GT TSI, it is amongst the entry-level engines in the VW portfolio and so sparsely kitted when compared to the regular Polo sold in international markets. But yes, on relative terms it’s the best hatchback on sale in India (in the 10 lakhs price range) with 100+ ps of power and also got advantages like the DSG AT and class leading safety kit (e.g.; ESP) in that segment. The Punto may not be the real Abarth, but it’s a step in the right direction; maybe a compromise when compared to what is sold elsewhere but still a great option to have IMO. Abarth or not, a hatchback touching close of 150ps power is just awesome and hope this will ignite a few more launches in that space.

Last edited by vb-san : 24th September 2015 at 08:49.
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Old 24th September 2015, 09:42   #269
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Abarth or T jet?

Name:  fiatrangebhp.jpg
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The main arguments from what it seems is more towards the "name" given to the car rather than whats "under" it.
Someone rightly said, it doesn't matter whether you win by a mm, cm, inch, feet, metre, km or a mile. Winning is winning.
And, end of the day, a big engine is a big engine. principle of "there is no replacement for displacement" still lies.
Not criticising the GT TSI, but good thing is that you have choices in the market.
Affordable fast/fun/old school/stable hatch with manual cog: the Punto T jet.
Same category fast/fun/new tech/stable hatch with AT: The GT TSI.
And the punto does have one added advantage which the polo doesn't: to control all that power, the rear disc brake. And wider tyres with bigger wheels (195/55 R16 vs 185/60 R15).

In case anyone detests the punto abarth, he/she has an option to remove all the decals, and replace all the abarth logos with Fiat logos. the only total cost incurred will be less than 3k.
Peace out folks. And let the consumer decide whats the best for him/her. And of course, let the final demo cars come in and test drives happen.

Last edited by sidindica : 24th September 2015 at 09:45.
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Old 24th September 2015, 09:52   #270
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

I am a TSI (Vento) owner who absolutely adores this Abarth. To me, both cars are different. The TSI + DSG makes the Polo / Vento extremely effortless and comfortable to drive. And it is pretty quick too.

The Abarth Punto is a proper old-school fast car. Big power, manual gearbox and heavy build. 0 - 100 timings don't really matter in everyday driving. The real fun in the Abarth (I'm guessing) would be the big power wallop in each gear, pushing you back in the seat.

I also appreciate the fact that Fiat India has used what they already had to come out with a fast and, (hopefully) more importantly, well priced car instead of launching a 'full blown' import at a price which nobody can afford.

I can't wait to test drive it.
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