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Old 24th September 2015, 14:43   #286
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
The 1.4 NA FIRE petrol and the 1.4 Tjet in the 145bhp tune are a totally different breed. 1.4 FIRE does a 0-100 is 15.99 secs, while the 1.4 Punto Abarth does the same in 9.41 secs (as per topgear review).

1.2 with all its tech is not coming closer to those figures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
No, it doesn't. Would prefer the 1.2 TSi anyday against the NA 1.4 Punto. Not because of the tech underneath, but the way it drives. The same reason why the Abarth Punto is right up and above the GT IMO.
You are missing the point here. You have stated that you prefer the 1.2 tsi over the 1.4 punto to drive.

I mentioned that it is better to drive because of the TSI tech and the DSG gearbox. Are there any other reasons for it?

Why drag the Abarth into this?

Quote:
"Absolute manner", "explicitly", "guarentee" - Can't be answered now. Your choice whether you want to believe the reviews or not. I believe no company would give a pre-production car to journalists and then make the production version worse!

There are several reasons why a pre production car can perform better than a production variant. A pre production which was just driven around BIC can be calibrated for just power, whereas a production version has to deal with issues like Emissions, Mileage, Engine life Etc.

Im sure you are aware of the same too.

Quote:
That "niche" was created because VW was the first mover. All credits to them. But now they have some competition from Ford with the 1.5 DCT and FIAT with the Punto Abarth. I feel the Figo makes the Polo look very overpriced now. Lets see if the sales will remain same.

Agreed. Competition is always good for the customer.


Quote:
As for the 1.8 petrol - I'm all for it if it comes at a sensible price. At the estimated 20L prices, it is a totally different segment.

The 1.4 fits perfectly between the 1.2 and 1.8 TSi - and is a direct competition to the Punto Abarth. Is it so hard to see the reasoning?
Sounds great on papers. Where are the volumes for these? how much would you pay for a 1.4 tsi?


Quote:
Compare Safari to Fortuner then.
Compare Jetta to 3 series.
Compare S-Cross to A class.

Size is ONLY ONE of the factors when comparing cars. I'm not sure whether you put this argument just for the sake of an argument or not - but I'm surprised a person of your standards is making such a counter argument.
Oh come on! This is just arguing for the sake of it.

Last edited by Aditya : 25th September 2015 at 07:47. Reason: Removing broken quote tag
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Old 24th September 2015, 16:04   #287
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Why drag the Abarth into this?
Sir, the discussion is about the Fiat Punto Evo Abarth.

You brought the VW 'tech' discussion to the table. You brought the 1.4 FIRE to the table to justify the pricing for the VW tech in the GT.

And now, we are wondering why the Abarth Punto is being discussed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
There are several reasons why a pre production car can perform better than a production variant. A pre production which was just driven around BIC can be calibrated for just power, whereas a production version has to deal with issues like Emissions, Mileage, Engine life Etc.

Im sure you are aware of the same too.
Right? So, now what is the point you are trying to make?

1. You started off with argument that FIAT doesn't bring anything to the table in the Abarth other than 'engine borrowed from slow seller' and a 'lousy driving position' and a 'horrible gearbox'
2. You say you appreciate FIAT for bringing out the product, but its too late and it should have come long back.
3. You question my experience with the car in making comparisons, but yet consider yourself experienced since you have had experiences with GTX and a Punto that was taken back for quality issues. While none of us have experience with Abarth.
4. And while referring to those who are driven the car - You refuse to accept that the pre-production model shown will have comparable performance to the production version, and that production version will be lousy.

I'm lost as to what is the point you are conveying here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Sounds great on papers. Where are the volumes for these? how much would you pay for a 1.4 tsi?
The same as the Abarth Punto Evo. Add another 1L if the 1.4 TSi comes with the DSG option.
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Old 24th September 2015, 16:26   #288
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Default

CrAdY dRiVeR and JayD, guys can you both relax. Take it easy!

Let us all hold our horses till the Punto Abarth is "actually" launched in India.

Let us give Fiat a chance to show what they have in for us and what they are trying to do with this car. With cars currently having more emphasis on Fuel Economy, the performance craving people are disappointed. With this car IMO, Fiat is seeing something good and niche to cater. This may not be "The performance" car but will make way for the future.

Whether it is "watered - down" or "pretending to be car" , isn't the worry as it is much better than having 'sticker' only versions named as 'RS'.

Why spoil the fun when it is coming for real. Let's wait and see how Fiat prices it. Hope it (Fiat) prospers.

Last edited by a4anurag : 24th September 2015 at 16:29.
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Old 24th September 2015, 16:36   #289
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Folks, why can't we agree to disagree and acknowledge that both the cars have their own strengths and weaknesses.

This thread is about the Abarth Punto Evo getting launched on the 10th October and the rumours around the specs and pricing.
So, where's RavenAvi/Sid when we need them with the insider info?

By the way, CD/Jay, 1.4TSI Polo retails as BlueGT in UK, starting from 17900 & 1.8TSI is the true GTI starting at 18900. We desis cannot afford that in India

I think we all should focus on what we are getting rather than what we can possibly get. Dont you think so?
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Old 24th September 2015, 17:30   #290
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

I truly hand it to you sir, you seem to be really good at twisting facts and arriving at a conclusion the other person never intended.

Either you have completely misunderstood my points or just dont want to accept them. Your wish, entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Sir, the discussion is about the Fiat Punto Evo Abarth.

You brought the VW 'tech' discussion to the table. You brought the 1.4 FIRE to the table to justify the pricing for the VW tech in the GT.

And now, we are wondering why the Abarth Punto is being discussed?
That point was raised in response to YOUR view that the tsi was better to drive than the FIRE. I merely stated that is due to the tech involved. Please let me know if the reason is something else.

That one point was only about these two cars,their price differential, and why the lower displacement tsi was more costly. There was no abarth is this one point, and u chose to drag it in.


Quote:
Right? So, now what is the point you are trying to make?

1. You started off with argument that FIAT doesn't bring anything to the table in the Abarth other than 'engine borrowed from slow seller' and a 'lousy driving position' and a 'horrible gearbox'
Factually, is any of that wrong? The driving position and ergonomics of the car have been questioned by almost all mags, reviewers and people who have used it. If it works for you. Good. That doesn't make it perfect for everyone else.

Again, even if a thousand people like it, last heard, I was still entitled to my opinion. And i stick by it.

Quote:
2. You say you appreciate FIAT for bringing out the product, but its too late and it should have come long back.
Now appreciating Fiat is the problem. Nice.

Quote:
3. You question my experience with the car in making comparisons, but yet consider yourself experienced since you have had experiences with GTX and a Punto that was taken back for quality issues. While none of us have experience with Abarth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Still-
1. It's way less powerful
2. Slower inspite of the lightening quick DSG.
3. Has handling at par with the Punto with raised suspension. Remains to be seen if it can match the Punto Abarth with lowered and stiffened springs.
4. Can't hold a candle to the hydraulic steering of the Punto.
5. Doesn't over any advantage in the braking department over the regular Polo inspite of having additional 30ps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post

How long have you driven the Punto abarth for? If you have penned your driving experience on the forum, kindly do share the link, i seem to have missed it. Thank you.

P.S: Try owning a rare/out of production Fiat. You will share what I've gone thru. Its no fun having to scavenge scrap yards or cut up a car to keep other cars running.

A 2002 santro/city/Wagon R can still be serviced at the A.S.S, with all original parts. Is it wrong to expect the same with a Fiat?

The car offers a good driving experience, hence sticking to it.
The way you raised your points, so confiently pushing down the TSI, one cant help but wonder if you are well experienced with the car.
I have not put down the reviews by other users, I just asked if YOU have driven it.

Like other points, you have twisted it to something else.

Quote:
4. And while referring to those who are driven the car - You refuse to accept that the pre-production model shown will have comparable performance to the production version, and that production version will be lousy.

I'm lost as to what is the point you are conveying here?
Here is what Bertrand D'souza of Overdrive mag has to say,

"P.S: the Punto Abarth I drove is a prototype and is still undergoing changes"

CD, Do you know what changes are being done? If not, how can you assume all of that will be good?


Please stop twisting facts. Do have a look at what I have told below. Where have i said the final version will be 'Lousy'?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Every mag review has stated that the Abarth driven is a pre production version. What guarantee do you have that the same tune/suspension etc is being launched?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
There are several reasons why a pre production car can perform better than a production variant. A pre production which was just driven around BIC can be calibrated for just power, whereas a production version has to deal with issues like Emissions, Mileage, Engine life Etc.

Im sure you are aware of the same too.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
CrAdY dRiVeR and JayD, guys can you both relax. Take it easy!
I do not wish to repeat the same points discussed here, but i really do NOT appreciate my points being twisted and made out to something different to what I Intended.

No more points from my side on this.


I guess all FIAT threads should come with a warning- Only positive points appreciated. All others will be lynched.

Last edited by .anshuman : 24th September 2015 at 18:39. Reason: Quote fixed. Thanks
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Old 24th September 2015, 18:40   #291
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Information from an insider birdie -

Differences between the Linea T-Jet and the Abarth Punto T-Jet

1. Turbo Charger
2. Exhaust Manifold
3. Intake Camshaft
4. Exhaust Camshaft
5. Intake Air Fuel Module
6. Pressure Sensor After the Intercooler
7. Boost Pressure and Temperature Sensor on Intake Manifold
8. Fuel Rail
9. Spark Plugs
10. Injectors
11. Battery
12. Blue & Me control unit removed. Replaced with Uconnect
13. Obviously different maps
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Old 24th September 2015, 19:08   #292
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

This whole VW vs Abarth is getting pointless now. But hey, I'm not stopping anyone. Discussions, debates and mild arguments here and there are part of every forum. For the most part it's fun too. But what I find strange is that it's only witnessed, at least here on Team-BHP, on Fiat threads. Being not in favour of a particular car or a company is fine. Everybody has different likes, wants and desires. Now I don't know why only Fiat evokes such emotions that some of the posts attack it with so much conviction that those on Fiat's side resort to unnecessary clarifications.

One of my favourite words in English language is 'perspective'. And that is answer here. For eg, my mom after having given up on me after trying to dissuade me from buying the car, has started blaming the government reasoning that they shouldn't allow such powerful hatches (don't blame her, she finds Alto powerful ) to be sold when we don't have the roads. Good luck in trying to find the perspective there . So in the same way everybody's perspective for an enthusiast, gearbox, 0-100 timing, watered down or pure, Bhp or the likes may be different and that's ok. Even for me when I tell my friends that Abarth Punto has 145 Bhp I'm get to field questions like 'what are you going to do driving at 190'. That's their perspective of a high Bhp but for me the point is that I'm not going to be driving at 190 but when I'm at 40 in third gear and when I feel like giving the stick then I want the car to go and I mean go. So I'm looking for that quick 40-90 sprint in third gear and for that I need torque primarily and then Bhp. Right now Abarth Punto will fulfil that better than anyone in the same price range.

Polo GT TSI is a good car. But for me Abarth Punto appeals more not only to the heart but to the head too. And for others if Polo GT is a better bet then so be it. Hey, whatever floats your boat man. So now after almost four pages of this duel, it's starting to get a little boring. I am hoping someone is able to share some real numbers of Abarth Punto. Eagerly looking forward to that.

And to end, a dialogue from the movie Border. A dialogue to end all debates.

'Hum hee hum hain toh kya hum hain, tum hee tum ho toh kya tum ho'.
Cheers guys.
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Old 24th September 2015, 20:16   #293
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Yet again, a car is getting bashed even before it is launched. No surprises, because yet again, the car in question is a Fiat!

Can we at least give the Fiat India team a pat on their backs for trying something different? Giving a small portion of the masses something which they are hungry for? A parallel option to the TSI?

How many of us has clamored for RS versions of the Swift, a sporty i20 variant and repeatedly called for a 1.5L i-VTEC under the Honda Jazz's hood?

Did their respective companies listen?

No.

At least we have an option in the hot hatches department to look forward to - something which market leaders such as Maruti-Suzuki, Hyundai, Honda, etc., have not even bothered about.

Fiat themselves would know that even a "watered down", "stickered" "Abarth" version of any Fiat car would cater ONLY to a niche segment of car buyers - most of them true enthusiasts. This in turn will NOT revive their sagging fortunes, because the Abarth editions won't be mass-market cars.

75% of the Indian car buying market doesn't even know what "Abarth" actually means.

At least give the parent company this much freedom to launch it in the market first, before deciding on if it can take on the might of the TSI badge. Bashing the car in any which way you seem fit can come later.

On a completely related note, how many are going ga-ga at Fiat's all-new Aegea sedan right now? I bet 90% of those will end up buying a Honda City once it arrives as a possible Linea replacement in the future.

Truth.
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Old 24th September 2015, 20:19   #294
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Well, I for one am anxiously waiting for this scorcher to be unleashed on our roads. Many of us have been wandering what stopped fiat from plonking the Tjet on the Punto, well they have gone half a step ahead by making mechanical changes also to justify the extra oomph.

The wait begins for the pricing now, I squeezed a few grey cells trying to imagine how the Fiat boffins would approach the subject of pricing here -

Take the 1.4 Fire (ex-showroom 7.4) and slap a premium of a lakh over it for the turbo, suspension, rear discs, other mechanicals and even the cosmetic bits. But I think now its clear that its going to be pricier than the NA variant.

Take the elder sibling the Linea Dynamic Tjet as the anchor (ex - showroom 9.3) and stay below that; even though the Abarth Punto is much more than an evo, comparisons within the family would be inevitable and some may wonder if its worth the premium when you can get a bigger car with the Linea powered by the same engine albeit with lower power and with some of the other bits missing.

And the most apt comparison, that with the Polo GT TSi. I truly believe the two are not the same. The comparison begins and ends with the drivetrain (and I am willing to ignore the extra 40 odd BHP). The suspension, steering and the rear drums just do not justify the billing of a true drivers car. We however live in the real world and few prospective buyers are racecar drivers, at least professionally not. The TSI is at 8.48, the Punto cannot be less than that as the 1.4 FIRE comparison demonstrates. The TSI has the excise advantage while the Punto saves a few with the manual. Does the premium on the suspension, rear discs et al make up and perhaps tower over the premium for the DSG? Maybe an expert can comment.

Then finally, I thought about who would the Abarth Punto appeal to? Fiat will be lucky to make any dent on their sales figures whether or not its priced favourably against its larger sibling. Are there people who would be willing to endure a premium over the TSI and still buy the Fiat? Hell yes! While for many other models a few ten thousands on the wrong side against the closest competitor may spell doom, not for a model whose sales figures would put a scanty bikini to shame

So heres to the marketing boffins (or whoever it is who makes these decisions at Fiat) to go ahead and set the collective pulses racing for those who have been eagerly awaiting the launch. Dont pinch pennies guys because this clearly is an aspirational product, not for the faint hearted fuel efficiency types. However, I still wont mind a 8.99 ex showroom tag

Last edited by hothatchaway : 24th September 2015 at 20:26. Reason: typos
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Old 24th September 2015, 21:49   #295
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Information from an insider birdie -

Differences between the Linea T-Jet and the Abarth Punto T-Jet
Wow. That's quite a big change in terms of engine internals. No wonder the power band is much wider than the T-Jet in Linea, which shows in the 30 odd HP increase with just 4Nm increase in torque. If a tuner comes up with a remap that can take the torque output to ~250Nm without letting the torque curve fall all that much, then we are looking at power output of 170-175 HP. On the flipside, since this engine config. is new, it might take a while. There will be reliability concerns as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Blue & Me control unit removed. Replaced with Uconnect
If FIAT has plonked in something like this like in Brazil (Uconnect supported HU), it'd be cool:

A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!-fiatpuntoylineamy20164.jpg
Source

Name:  FiatPuntoUConnect560x373.jpg
Views: 1785
Size:  35.5 KB
Source

Last edited by theredliner : 24th September 2015 at 22:15.
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Old 24th September 2015, 22:05   #296
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Wow. That's quite a big change in terms of engine internals. No wonder the power band is much wider than the T-Jet in Linea, which shows in the 30 odd HP increase with just 4Nm increase in torque.
I for one did not really expect them to just give a remapped T-Jet and badge it Abarth. I guess all these changes to the internals justify the Abarth badge. The tubro has better impellers is what I understand. I have asked details about the intercooler - the Linea has a really puny intercooler - apart from a few other details. Waiting on response, which I will share here as I get them.

As for the HU, no idea. Will ask that question as well. Watch this space.

PS: I work for another automotive major and have inside contacts. Sadly cannot reveal the source. But I can tell you that the source is from the manufacturer and not a dealer.
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Old 24th September 2015, 22:12   #297
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post


Here is what Bertrand D'souza of Overdrive mag has to say,

"P.S: the Punto Abarth I drove is a prototype and is still undergoing changes"

CD, Do you know what changes are being done? If not, how can you assume all of that will be good?
Undergoing changes? This ain't a VW which is being incorporated with ECU code to cheat emissions just before production.

On a serious note, Fiat has already started advertising the car and if you had missed, the ad clearly states 145 BHP.

Changes if any going by the ad, are visual, like red instead of chrome around the fog lamps, more red on the hood, etc.

A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!-img20150918wa0027.jpg
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Old 24th September 2015, 22:34   #298
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Changes if any going by the ad, are visual, like red instead of chrome around the fog lamps, more red on the hood, etc.

Attachment 1419251
Of course. Did you really expect them to manufacture a handful of cars with all the changes that I have listed earlier, give it for media drives and then launch a remapped T-Jet version? It is not that easy, brother. Anyway the launch is close. Till then keep speculating and arguing about it.
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Old 24th September 2015, 22:38   #299
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Been a silent spectator so far, but felt sad on seeing that once again people are desperate to pull FIAT down when they are trying to launch something.

Owned 11 FIAT's so far (still have 6 of them) and never have any of them failed me. Whether I maintain at FASS/FNG spares weren't a issue for me and obviously my next would also be from the FIAT stable. Every detail available on my respective threads.

Coming back to Abarth, a hip-hop black Abarth punto is coming home in the next few weeks. My cousin has already booked one and among all probabilities we would be getting the first Abarth in Coimbatore. Let me post all the details once the car arrives so that people can know the details of the actual production version

Well, there are few others who do very well know on who bought back the 90hp!

Last edited by h14 : 24th September 2015 at 22:47.
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Old 24th September 2015, 22:43   #300
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by h14 View Post
Been a silent spectator so far, but felt sad on seeing that once again people are desperate to pull FIAT down when they are trying to launch something.

Owned 11 FIAT's so far (still have 6 of them) and never have any of them failed me. Whether I maintain at FASS/FNG spares weren't a issue for me and obviously my next would also be from the FIAT stable. Every detail available on my respective threads.

Coming back to Abarth, a hip-hop black Abarth punto is coming home in the next few weeks. My cousin has already booked one and among all probabilities we would be getting the first Abarth in Coimbatore. Let me post all the details once the car arrives so that people can know the details of the actual production version

Well, there are few others who do very well know on who bought back the 90hp!
Great news Anandh! Congrats, let me be the photographer when you get to see the car.

Yup, last I heard the car is running fine without any issues, a sales exec from the same dealership is happily using the car.

Last edited by DRIV3R : 24th September 2015 at 22:59.
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