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Old 28th September 2015, 12:36   #346
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Exclamation re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Is it OK if I request the mods to temporarily lock this thread till "official/actual" details are available and/or the car is officially launched?

Guys, it just doesn't make any sense playing "lets bash FIAT". Credit where it's due, they are launching a hatch back with supposedly great power, excellent dynamics and good looks. We, as enthusiasts, should welcome this! Instead, all I see is people resorting to serious mud slinging over what appears to be a made-up unofficial power point, the fact that the Abart Punto being launched here does not have as much power as the European version, and that their marketing & promotion department isn't that great! Seriously, lets take a break from bashing FIAT. It isn't professional at all for us to behave like this. Whether the car will be overpriced, or will have a good/bad gearbox, or will come with 145/180 PS of power, lets wait till the official launch happens. The comments on this thread are not adding any value to Team-Bhp, none whatsoever!

Last edited by sourav9385 : 28th September 2015 at 12:39.
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Old 28th September 2015, 12:53   #347
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

How is there a 1+ second difference in the 0-100 timings for Punto and the Avventura ?

Is there a difference in the gear ratios/weight ? The torque and power figures are identical.
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:06   #348
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

These are still not official company figures, these were put up by the FIAT Moto Club. These slides were shared by someone on this thread too a few pages back. Let's wait till the company numbers are out.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 28th September 2015 at 13:09.
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:08   #349
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
How is there a 1+ second difference in the 0-100 timings for Punto and the Avventura ?

Is there a difference in the gear ratios/weight ? The torque and power figures are identical.
The torque and power aren't the same, if the tacky slides are anything to go by-

145 bhp vs 140 bhp
212 nm vs 210 nm

Also, the GC may play a part too.
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:08   #350
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
How is there a 1+ second difference in the 0-100 timings for Punto and the Avventura ?

Is there a difference in the gear ratios/weight ? The torque and power figures are identical.
There was a difference of 65kgs between the Punto and Avventura. That could be one of the reasons.

Looks like Punto will be called "Abarth" and Avventura will be "Powered by Abarth". If Linea also makes it in the "powered by Abarth" branding- that should satisfy a lot of people who were complaining that a sedan shouldn't be launched under the Abarth brand.
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Old 28th September 2015, 13:34   #351
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The Avventura would only have the 140bhp tune against the Punto's 145. Basically the tune is different.
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Old 28th September 2015, 15:04   #352
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
It isn't professional at all for us to behave like this. Whether the car will be overpriced, or will have a good/bad gearbox, or will come with 145/180 PS of power, lets wait till the official launch happens. The comments on this thread are not adding any value to Team-Bhp, none whatsoever!
Atlast I am happy that some one said this. I always wanted to add Tbhp stickers on all of my rides but after reading all the junk that has been put up on this thread from pages 14-21 I think I will be better off without it. This forum is losing the quality it had few years back (strictly my personal opinion). Criticisms are nice but only when we do it equally. If people got issues with the name Abarth I wonder why they are happy with GT(stands for grand tourer), swift RS (sticker work) etc. Fiat isn't calling this supersport/essessee. That's for the later 180hp abarth I guess. Puntos gear box may not be that great for many but I wonder how many in here who bash it on every side have driven it long enough. If bhpians are complaining about Puntos gearbox please do show the guts to criticize the polos crappy brakes, heavier clutch, softer steering & suspension(mine stands at 57k on the odo now). Also bash those brands which simply put up 5 star safety stickers on zero star rides. Bash other brands for poorer build too. Let everything be equal. I'm a fiat owner for past 13 years. But that doesn't make me a fiat fan. I'm just an informed car owner. Though I have got 2 VW's(scary situation as of now) with me now I ain't a VW fan either. For me no cars perfect. Every car has got its own downsides but attacking a particular brand only highlighting the slightest -ves isn't TBhp standard. Here we have a struggling car maker trying to bring up something different which they itself know wouldn't set sales charts on fire and then here we are one of the most elite online auto communities fighting like lil kids with no sense(pages 14-21). I won't buy an Abarth Punto. Coz my priorities are different. But still this car will be one of the best drivers car ever to hit our Indian roads and I am sure I will take a deep breath every time I see one. Build, ride, driver engagement & handling, power, brakes, looks you name it. This car has got 90% right. So let's give some appreciation too. Coz none of the pocket full manufacturers have tried something even remotely close to this.
On another note, I seriously hope those slides are some kind of internal circular or similar stuff because if fiat plans to advertise like this they need to be bashed in full strength from all sides. So lets hope for good. I can make a better poster within 10 minutes on my phone using PicsArt. I think the production version of Abarth will have red fog lamp sorrounds which feels a little overboard for me. Red scorpion and stripes on the roof too. But then that shows they are listening to us too. Many were complaining about too much chrome. Just hoping they price it sensibly too. A shocking introductory price is a pre-requisite for this car. That will attract people and once they get the feel of it Fiat can go ahead and do whatever they want with the pricing. Same goes for the ads too. There is no meaning in pricing it higher and giving discounts later. It will be dead by then. All fiats are 50% DOA in India. Last few pages just certifies that again. They should try to change that somehow.
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Old 28th September 2015, 16:14   #353
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Is it OK if I request the mods to temporarily lock this thread till "official/actual" details are available and/or the car is officially launched?

Guys, it just doesn't make any sense playing "lets bash FIAT". Credit where it's due, they are launching a hatch back with supposedly great power, excellent dynamics and good looks. We, as enthusiasts, should welcome this! Instead, all I see is people resorting to serious mud slinging over what appears to be a made-up unofficial power point, the fact that the Abart Punto being launched here does not have as much power as the European version, and that their marketing & promotion department isn't that great! Seriously, lets take a break from bashing FIAT. It isn't professional at all for us to behave like this. Whether the car will be overpriced, or will have a good/bad gearbox, or will come with 145/180 PS of power, lets wait till the official launch happens. The comments on this thread are not adding any value to Team-Bhp, none whatsoever!
This is frankly getting quite tedious now.

No one here has discredited the company for attempting to satisfy the growling stomachs of enthusiasts'. I have personally given them credit where it's due on more than a few occasions. This is, after all, the first time a company has bothered to give us something that can wear the hot-hatch tag.

But.. much in the same way that a father critizes his son for not being up to the mark, we enthusiasts critize Fiat for their short-comings. It's not because the dad hates his kid, it's because he has noticed that the child is squandering away his potential. If the father continues to praise the child for his achievements, let him believe that he is perfect and conveniently brush-aside his idiosyncracies, the child will not learn to mend his ways and will continue to believe that he is doing perfectly alright. There is nothing wrong with criticism, especially if it's taken positively. I own a Polo TSI and I have critizes it vehemently for its numerous short comings. I own the old Jazz and I have reviewed the new one with Vid6639 and we have critized it for its cons.

We enthusiasts see so much potential in the Abarth Punto. It's a fantastic car that's seemingly let down by the marketing chaps who are at the helm of Fiat's affairs. And we are upset that in spite of having such a brilliant car up their sleeves, they continue to fluff up their chances of making it big. As an enthusiast, it hurts.

Let's assume for a minute that these slides have been created by a technologically challenged enthusiast like me. That would be alright because it's just some over-enthusiastic guy who wants to have this information out in the public domain. But.. If these slides were in fact from the dealers, I believe that it's highly unprofessional and unbecoming of a manufacturer to have these put up in the public domain. Just as you say that it's unprofessional of us to 'behave like this'.

I have been following this thread quite religiously, not to mention several other Fiat threads because Fiat, just like VW and several other brands, appeals to me. What I have noticed in Fiat related discussions is that there is plenty of room for praise, but the moment someone stands up and critizes it, all hell breaks loose. It's almost like the Fiat fans want everyone to only shower praise on the product and reserve criticism for other cars. It's rather sad. IMO, if you truly love something, you will be the first one to express displeasure if it does not satisfy you. You will not hesitate to point out it's flaws because you want to see it rectified.

End of rant.
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Old 28th September 2015, 16:24   #354
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Fiat threads are always the same story, in the exact same sequence of bashing, countering, moderating, repeat... but the fans never give up. Fiat should be happy at the end of the day at least for this. Even their sub par marketing and flawed cars will be defended by the fans and they can just sit back and make some yellow posters instead.
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Old 28th September 2015, 18:38   #355
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

A 0-100 time of 8.8 seconds sounds really sweet and it was exactly what i was looking for when they mentioned that this car produces 145 bhp. We can only wait until the car launches in the next few weeks for the official conformation on the 0-100 sprint timings. That said which enthusiast would say "no" to a hot hatch with a manual transmission and 145 bhp of power on tap. Not to mention the fact that power can be bumped up even more once Petes or the other companies release a remap for the vehicle. Not only does this car seem to have the power of a tarmac scorcher its also a looker.

My sights are set on the Abarth Punto becoming my next acquisition anytime between December 2015 and February 2016. The only dilemma that i am facing is that the closest Fiat dealer is in Vijayawada which is 350 KM from my town. There is a Fiat authorized service station in my town that deals with the regular servicing and warranty related issues with respect to Fiat vehicles. Is it advisable to go for the car despite the fact that there is no dealer in my town?

I guess its time for me to start looking for a buyer for my sparingly used 2013 GT TSI.
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Old 28th September 2015, 18:48   #356
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstguri View Post
@PatchyBoy: Could you confirm from your source about the gear ratios? I hope Fiat has altered the ratios to better suit the engine. Also awaiting update on Uconnect. Thanks in advance.
Here are the gear ratios -

1 - 3.909
2 - 2.238
3 - 1.444
4 - 1.029
5 - 0.795

Final Drive Ratio - 3.733

EDIT: It is the same C510 gearbox as found in the Linea T-Jet. Explains the small bump in the torque figures. That is pretty close to the GB's rated Torque numbers. That would mean that remappers have to be really careful, lest they exceed safe limits.

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 28th September 2015 at 19:09. Reason: Added text
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Old 28th September 2015, 19:24   #357
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

As responsible BHPians, it seems that we are concerned more about powerpoint presentation styles rather than seeing what is written on it. And fight like immature kids on its way of presenting it. Its an internal document which is mostly shared with dealers and their sales team and is not bound to be revealed outside, until its the case of some insider.

Abarth or no abarth, enjoy the end product for what it will offer, enjoy the power, torque and the joy of manual transmission. In case you want a refined higher quality AT hatch, get the GT. There are choices available in the market, each one is free to choose whatever he or she wants.
Also, like said before, those who do not want the "abarth branding", remove the stickers and abarth logos and replace with Fiat logos, only 3 are required. Or else, the best selling enthusiasts hatchback can also be bought, SWIFTly, I too love that car to bits.

I think this thread should be closed else this would be another popcorn movie thread, like all previous Fiat threads have been.

Last edited by sidindica : 28th September 2015 at 19:32.
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Old 28th September 2015, 19:45   #358
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
As responsible BHPians, it seems that we are concerned more about powerpoint presentation styles rather than seeing what is written on it. And fight like immature kids on its way of presenting it. Its an internal document which is mostly shared with dealers and their sales team and is not bound to be revealed outside, until its the case of some insider.

...
I think this thread should be closed else this would be another popcorn movie thread, like all previous Fiat threads have been.
Thanks for that and I agree. The problem is, there is just so much speculation than substance in this thread, but unfortunately this is not the only thread. I remember seeing it in in Creta, S-Cross, Aspire too where we had to wait a while for official information. It is almost like we revel in gossiping or interested in only number of posts. I understand people have the right to express, but what concerns me is, I end up going through lot of trivial and petty things before finding anything of value off late.

Anyway, let my post be the last off-topic here!
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Old 28th September 2015, 21:49   #359
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Here are the gear ratios -
EDIT: It is the same C510 gearbox as found in the Linea T-Jet. Explains the small bump in the torque figures. That is pretty close to the GB's rated Torque numbers. That would mean that remappers have to be really careful, lest they exceed safe limits.
On searching through the internet, it seems the C510 has a max torque rating of 206Nm.

http://www.tezana.pl/files/do%20pobr...PTOVERVIEW.pdf

This raises a few concerns which have already been raised by a couple of people in the Fiat 500 Abarth forums North America.

How can a gear box designed for a max load of 206 be delivered with much higher figures right out of the factory?

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...ngineers/page2

I think the Linea Tjet's OEM figure of 207 Nm is still closest to the published capability of this GB.

Can you please check with your inside contact to get some clarity on this?
Whether they have done something to further strengthen the GB to take in the extra load for the Abarth's?

Last edited by adneo : 28th September 2015 at 22:11.
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Old 28th September 2015, 21:54   #360
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneo View Post
I think the Linea Tjet's OEM figure of 207 Nm is still closest to the published capability of this GB.
T-Jet 207 Nm Torque is at crank. The GB will never see those values.
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