Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th September 2015, 21:59   #361
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BLR/CCU
Posts: 95
Thanked: 104 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
T-Jet 207 Nm Torque is at crank. The GB will never see those values.
Ok, but the Fiat 500 Abarth sold in the USA and the 595 Abarth sold in India run with 230 Nm of torque?

What about them?
adneo is offline  
Old 28th September 2015, 22:32   #362
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BLR/CCU
Posts: 95
Thanked: 104 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Here are the gear ratios -

1 - 3.909
2 - 2.238
3 - 1.444
4 - 1.029
5 - 0.795

Final Drive Ratio - 3.733
Also found out the following gear ratios for the Abarth 595 from http://www.supercars.net/cars/5827.html

transmission FPT C510 5-Speed Transmission
gear ratios 3.909:1, 2.238:1, 1.520:1, 1.156:1, 0.872:1
final drive 3.35:1

Interestingly the first and second gears are running the same ratios.
adneo is offline  
Old 28th September 2015, 22:55   #363
BHPian
 
theredliner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 495
Thanked: 823 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Here is something I found about the C510 gearbox answered by a Fiat engineer to a question asked by one of the members of a Fiat forum about North American Fiat 500.

Quote:
Q: This begs a question Chris. The NA Abarth engine has max 230Nm and the C510 shows 206Nm max input torque. Is the C510 being built for us in Italy stronger? I've never heard of a transmission, stock from the factory, with the input torque already exceeded.

Here is my understanding on these transmission figures I posted way back. The figures are a guideline used when selling the transmission to third parties.

As is common in manufacturing a high performance car, the envelop is pushed to achieve higher levels of performance. However, these figures I published two years ago don't really tell the whole story. It is not a clear cut " apply 1 lbs-ft over this amount something is going to break." The figure is a calculated, and includes a test applying the full stated torque over 100,000 miles. With all the testing and abuse we've seen in Europe and in the US, I wouldn't worry about the transmission. You are not going to shear a crown gear by driving the car hard.

Remember, cars with the ATM trans are running 200 hp, the difference is the auto clutch operation uses controlled engagement and takes the shock out of the gearbox. Probably the biggest factor in all this is how YOU drive your modified car.

Abuse systems and everything is out the window.
Source
theredliner is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 28th September 2015, 23:31   #364
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BLR/CCU
Posts: 95
Thanked: 104 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Here is something I found about the C510 gearbox answered by a Fiat engineer to a question asked by one of the members of a Fiat forum about North American Fiat 500.

Source
Thanks for pointing that out, even i went over it during my earlier run, but what struck me was globally Fiat has been limiting the torque for all the Tjet C510 combos to 206/7 Nm, the bump in torque is only seen in the Abarth's.

If they wanted the higher torque figures to be coupled with higher Bhps, why would they be selling the Punto Tjet in Brazil with 149Bhp but still 207Nm of torque? Even though the 500 Abarth sells in the same region with 230 Nm of torque?

Also please note in the quoted response, the engineer did highlight the role of the AMT in reducing the stress exerted on the gear box during shifts.

The reason why i started to look into this particular parameter is to figure out what would be a safe zone while pushing the car's performance boundaries.

Many tuner's have come up with maps amounting to 245 Nm of torque.

Incase the Abarth's are running with the vanilla C510 and considering that the Abarth's have the most aggressive tuning setup, is it safe to assume that the torque figure of 230 Nm should be considered as the upper limit for this gear box?

Or is that figure just applicable to the Tjets running with AMTs?

Does that mean that in a manual setup 207 is the safe zone while 211/12 would be the extreme upper limits?

Last edited by adneo : 28th September 2015 at 23:47.
adneo is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 00:11   #365
BHPian
 
theredliner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 495
Thanked: 823 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneo View Post

Does that mean that in a manual setup 207 is the safe zone while 211/12 would be the extreme upper limits?
I am not sure if all Puntos use the same gearbox in 5/6 speed setup. If that's the case (and it really seems to be, from whatever I have read today), tuning shouldn't be a problem as I have seen some Punto T-Jets in the past (on youtube) in drag setup making insane 255HP (and rev past 8000 RPM) with bigger turbos, different injectors and some other internal changes with the stock gearbox working fine without any issues according to the owners. The tuner's name is RevLimit.

If all Abarths use the same C510 gearbox, then 206 Nm should be far from the critical limit as Abarth Punto Supersport produces 270Nm torque and uses a stick shifter.

PS Buying a car like this and not being able to tune would be a bummer

Last edited by theredliner : 29th September 2015 at 00:16.
theredliner is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 00:29   #366
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BLR/CCU
Posts: 95
Thanked: 104 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
I am not sure if all Puntos use the same gearbox in 5/6 speed setup. If that's the case (and it really seems to be, from whatever I have read today), tuning shouldn't be a problem as I have seen some Punto T-Jets in the past (on youtube) in drag setup making insane 255HP (and rev past 8000 RPM) with bigger turbos, different injectors and some other internal changes with the stock gearbox working fine without any issues according to the owners. The tuner's name is RevLimit.

If all Abarths use the same C510 gearbox, then 206 Nm should be far from the critical limit as Abarth Punto Supersport produces 270Nm torque and uses a stick shifter.

PS Buying a car like this and not being able to tune would be a bummer
That is exactly why i have been taking special note of this parameter, getting this car and not being able to exploit its full potential would be really sad.

On the other hand being able to exploit its full potential should not put us in a spot wherein we have to take the car on a flat bed to the venue, have some fun and again return home on the flat bed.

Tuning should enable us to exploit the full capabilities of the car but not at the expense of cutting down the life of the car drastically.
adneo is offline  
Old 29th September 2015, 00:59   #367
BHPian
 
theredliner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 495
Thanked: 823 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneo View Post
Tuning should enable us to exploit the full capabilities of the car but not at the expense of cutting down the life of the car drastically.
Doesn't the multijet also use same gearbox, at least here in India? We have numerous Linea and Punto 90HP owners running remaps and tuning boxes here with some maps taking the torque output past 250 Nm. I'm sure many of them would have crossed 50000 km by now.

Considering how Abarth Punto Supersport touches 270Nm, I'm guessing that the gearbox will be pretty much fine, but the overall life would probably reduce by 20-30%. Say 3 lakh km vs 5 lakh if kept below 206 Nm, which again would be fine for most people. I think that is what the Fiat guy meant when he said "As is common in manufacturing a high performance car, the envelop is pushed to achieve higher levels of performance" and "With all the testing and abuse we've seen in Europe and in the US, I wouldn't worry about the transmission. You are not going to shear a crown gear by driving the car hard."

Whatever it is, the safest thing would be to have switchable maps and use the higher states of tune only when needed while being stock all the other times.

Last edited by theredliner : 29th September 2015 at 01:01.
theredliner is offline  
Old 29th September 2015, 11:21   #368
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,942
Thanked: 16,609 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Here's a small comparison of the gear ratios. 90 hp diesel as everyone has a problem with the gear ratios of the diesel Punto, Swift diesel which is said to be a lot faster than the Punto thanks to gear ratios, and the Punto Abarth as per PatchyBoy's post above -


90hp MJD | Swift 75hp DDiS | Punto Abarth
1st | 4.273 | 3.545 | 3.909
2nd | 2.238 | 1.904 | 2.238
3rd | 1.444 | 1.233 | 1.444
4th | 1.029 | 0.911 | 1.029
5th | 0.767 | 0.725 | 0.795

If Punto Abarth uses the same ratios as the Linea TJet, then people should be a lot happier as compared to the MJD Punto users who cry about the extremely short first gear and a huge gap with the second kill killing the start.

I believe none of the linea TJet users had the same complaint.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 29th September 2015 at 11:24.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 14:17   #369
Senior - BHPian
 
sandeepmohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wellington
Posts: 1,938
Thanked: 1,616 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I believe none of the linea TJet users had the same complaint.
I do find 1st short on the T Jet. A slight dab on the throttle is enough to spike the rpm to 2000 and there is a immediate need to shift to second. I've not explored too much here but I believe 2nd takes you just shy of the ton. 1st almost acts like a crawler gear on the T Jet. You get moving with zero throttle input and it will stay that way as long as you want.

On a different note, I am surprised that the unpublished brochure/presentation talks about economy for an Abarth. Does anyone really care about this?

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 29th September 2015 at 14:19.
sandeepmohan is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 14:32   #370
BHPian
 
PatchyBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 822
Thanked: 1,189 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I do find 1st short on the T Jet. A slight dab on the throttle is enough to spike the rpm to 2000 and there is a immediate need to shift to second. I've not explored too much here but I believe 2nd takes you just shy of the ton.
The T-Jet redlined in each gear does approximately:

1st: 55 kmph
2nd: 96 kmph
3th: 137 kmph
4th: 165 kmph
5th: 205 kmph

PS: Did not redline in fifth and that is theoretical. Did not have enough guts

EDIT - Speeds shown above are GPS and not Speedo indicated.

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 29th September 2015 at 14:35.
PatchyBoy is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 15:26   #371
BHPian
 
im_srini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 956
Thanked: 368 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Post re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Here's a small comparison of the gear ratios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I do find 1st short on the T Jet.
Many thanks for the data, but I think it would make more sense to add the final drive ratio also.
In any case, just graphing out the ratios :

Name:  Graph_Txn_Ratios.PNG
Views: 2409
Size:  77.3 KB
Name:  Values_Txn_Ratios.PNG
Views: 2530
Size:  15.8 KB
Secondary Y-Axis is the percentage of the previous gear that the current gear is.
Looking at the graph, it would seem that there isn't much between the three transmissions ( in terms of ratios that is ).
.

Last edited by im_srini : 29th September 2015 at 15:27.
im_srini is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 16:55   #372
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,430
Thanked: 32 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Second is good for about 95 kph. I rev it every time to the red line after I pay the toll at NICE road-Kanakapura Road, since I get a good straight line.
deepakhon is offline  
Old 29th September 2015, 22:44   #373
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RavenAvi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Flying Around
Posts: 5,357
Thanked: 28,162 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Official teaser poster released on home page:

A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!-untitled.jpg
(Click on the image to open in a *NEW* window)

Last edited by RavenAvi : 29th September 2015 at 22:46.
RavenAvi is offline   (12) Thanks
Old 29th September 2015, 22:50   #374
BHPian
 
asivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 62
Thanked: 43 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Official teaser poster released on home page:

[/center]
Seems like the wheel arches are filled up much better according to this image doesn't it? Certainly seems lower than the pictures we saw when the car was at BIC.
asivan is offline  
Old 29th September 2015, 23:11   #375
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 197
Thanked: 108 Times
Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Official teaser poster released on home page:


The roof, bonnet and the fog lamp housing gets the additional stickers. The wheel well seems to be low. But it could have been reduced just for the pics too. I hope the stickers on the fog lamp housing does not come out that easy.

The below image is the regular punto. The wheel arches here are a little higher. So the picture is a close to match to reality ! But the back wheel arch seems to be the same in both cars !
A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!-puntocarousel.jpg

Last edited by Rubbertramps : 29th September 2015 at 23:16.
Rubbertramps is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look S2!!! The Indian Car Scene 602 3rd December 2017 22:46
Fiat 500 US spec, 500C Abarth SS and Punto EVO Abarth SS revealed sidindica The International Automotive Scene 13 1st November 2013 12:15
Fiat Punto EVO Abarth sidindica The International Automotive Scene 23 11th March 2010 13:15
Fiat relaunches Abarth brand with the grande Punto Abarth himanshugoswami The International Automotive Scene 5 1st March 2007 14:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:08.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks