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Old 19th October 2015, 16:32   #586
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Will they lend this turbocharged 1.4L T-jet engine with the same 140 hp to Maruti, so that they can put it in the Swift....
Kidding, right?

They won't even put their in-house 1.4L lump in the Swift (agreed it will need a retune to make it sporty). The Swift with a retuned 1.4 under the hood making ~100 horses would be a good drive, but who needs a sporty engine when you can sell a 'Glory' version to 'enthusiasts' instead? The TVC made me want to puke.
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:33   #587
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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Couple of weeks back, Fiat had set up a counter at my office premises, displaying their entire range.
When asked about the rear mounted tyre and how it can create issues, the SA showed me provision to move it under the boot carpet, should the customer so wish. They would remove the entire mechanism and move the tyre under to boot carpet.

So, that option is already there. Please check it out once. Should be on Abarth as well.

First I am hearing about this boot stuff. Is there a hollow place under the boot carpet or is it just shoved under there? I need to check this out. If you have any pictures of this changed spare wheel layout, would greatly appreciate if you can share. Thanks!
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:36   #588
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
A month ago, I had mentioned that they probably would add about 1L-1.5L for the additional 30 horses, and another 1L-1.5L for the Abarth badging and Decals, when the discussion was about the suspected Abarth Linea. So, the difference approximately matches
What is sure is that, this is just sticker price, and will increase in another few months. It might increase immediately after the festive season also.
To satisfy enthusiasts desire: Will they lend this turbocharged 1.4L T-jet engine with the same 140 hp to Maruti, so that they can put it in the Swift? Fiat has been selling great engines at the cost of their own car sales. So I guess it does not matter anyway. A Swift with this heart, probably at 9L OTR, will fetch a lot more buyers for this engine, and add to the popularity of Fiat engines!
Can you please paste the source of the above info you've got? (Especially about the price to increase after festive season - the offers you saw in the media are for all the other FIAT cars and not for Abarth Punto). Also, please try to justify the cost breakup you've done - tell me which is the other manufacturer that provide an additional 55 horses for a cost of 1.5L or even 2.5L.

About question of whether Swift will get this gem of an engine and hence "for sure they will be able to contain the cost to 9L on the road" - Let us discuss about Abarth Punto Evo here and set aside dreams for other brands to some other thread.
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:43   #589
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

But we have a case where Fiat lent Maruti their 90HP Diesel engine which they "Forgot" to put in Baleno.

Seriously !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodvayyat View Post
About question of whether Swift will get this gem of an engine and hence "for sure they will be able to contain the cost to 9L on the road" - Let us discuss about Abarth Punto Evo here and set aside dreams for other brands to some other thread.
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:43   #590
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
First I am hearing about this boot stuff. Is there a hollow place under the boot carpet or is it just shoved under there? I need to check this out. If you have any pictures of this changed spare wheel layout, would greatly appreciate if you can share. Thanks!
Sorry mate. No pics. But the provision was the same as is commonly found on the hatches, with proper cover and all. Best you check it out at the showroom. I do not clearly remember right now, coz it was not literally couple of weeks, but more like a couple of months ago.

I am sure about the fact that the rear mounted wheel can be removed (along with its mechanism) and stored in the boot.
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:51   #591
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Geez!! FIAT has really messed up the pricing. I mean, its direct competitors are offering a far greater value proposition and here comes FCA bringing in some obscure brand called Bharat Punto. I mean, Make in India doesn't mean you have to name it after India. Morons! And why would you price the Ace Ventura the same as Punto..It should have been cheaper.

Take KWID for example - what fantastic pricing coup it has pulled off. By pricing it so close to the Alto, it has ensured that Alto will be completely cannibalised. Also, the claimed mileage is also the highest offered by a petrol car. Just brilliant. Ranbir Kapoor has been roped to sell the car; one smile is enough - even Deepika Padukone will line up to buy this car. Who has FCA engaged? No one. Instead they keep talking about some sting and scorpions. When will FCA wake up and realise it has to sell cars and not expose its customers to dangerous insects/reptiles.

Maruti - Does a far better sticker job anyday. Has anyone seen the new glory edition? And the macho men making skid marks and getting out stylishly? The swift already sold so well....and this edition is well positioned to counter the onslaught of imitation graphics from FCA.

Mercedes A Class AMG - So if someone wanted a hatchback with power, it has to be the Merc A Class with AMG tuned engine and race suspension. Puts out far more power than than 145bhp. And it comes with excellent grippy and wider tyres (225 section Pirelli or Continental Max Contacts) right from the factory! If someone wanted powerful hatchback, this is what they would get. The Abarth Punto tries very hard to breach this segment but fails to exactly deliver on the power promise. Also the so called scorpion alloys are no match for the flower petal alloys of the Merc. It's about the right branding and the green message guys! Thumbs down.

BMW 7 Series - In terms of comfort, there is no better value for money than the BMW 7 Series or the new S class S500/600. FOr the amount of money, the sheer customisation and equipment would put the Abarth Punto to shame. Hell, the punto does not even have automatic headlamps or cruise control. So massaging seats. No airmatic suspension. Inspite of both having approx 155mm ground clearance, it is the BMW that rides far better than the Punto. And what do you get in the punto? Smoke from the rear wheels in a FWD car. That's really lame.

So it appears that the punto is neither a match for the KWID/Swift or the BMW 7 Series/ Merc S Class. It tries to half heartedly position itself somewhere in between hoping that the Bata pricing of 9.99 lakhs will somehow let it claim that it priced the car below 10 lakhs. It offers neither the value for money and comfort proposition of the luxury segment nor the excellent price and mileage proposition of the other extreme.

I mean, what use is 145 bhp? Is it at the wheel or the crank? Has it been dyno tested? Hell, the Hyundai Verna makes 126 bhp at the wheel (see threads elsewhere in this forum). Even after all the frictional losses, the so called 145 bhp will be nothing more than 125 bhp of actual usable power. So how is it better than a Hyundai Verna or a Creta?

Even if it did produce 145 bhp, where exactly is one gonna use all that power? Firstly, the gearbox wont let you put that power down...and if you do, the bumper of the Alto in front of you will limit how far or fast you can go. It's just not practical for India and its roads. The infrastructure has to go a long way.

I am not a FIAT basher or an Apple fanboy. I've tried a balanced approach here and I also agree that FIAT has come up with some good products in the past. But this is not it. In fact, the POLO TSI may just be what the doctor ordered. A practical powerful hatch with usable power mated to a hardworking gearbox priced within 10 lakhs ON ROAD (NOT Ex-SHOWROOM, BUT ON ROAD, mind you). And the best part is, it is undeterred by the VW Emissiongate scandal. Oh, and have you heard of a single DSG gearbox failure in a POLO? Of course, its far more reliable than some stupid limited by torque C-section gearbox (or is it C510? I can't be sure).

Oh, and the Icing on the cake - Hyundai is rolling out the Celebration Edition of the i20 Elite. Can't wait.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 19th October 2015 at 19:52. Reason: Let's keep it clean please! This is a family show!
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Old 19th October 2015, 16:53   #592
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

@carwatcher et al, features like power-folding ORVMs, projectors, DRLs, park sensors and electro-whatever (read auto-dimming) IRVM are in fact sorely missed, as these would have complemented the safety kit nicely.

Not included both in this list and in yours are smart key with push button start and remote boot.

Technically, the VW GT is a superior product with that DSG box. One must not forget that except power output, the Polo can match the Abarth in every other aspect including the indifferent dealer attitude.

Purely my opinion.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:04   #593
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodvayyat View Post
Can you please paste the source of the above info you've got? (Especially about the price to increase after festive season - the offers you saw in the media are for all the other FIAT cars and not for Abarth Punto). Also, please try to justify the cost breakup you've done - tell me which is the other manufacturer that provide an additional 55 horses for a cost of 1.5L or even 2.5L.

About question of whether Swift will get this gem of an engine and hence "for sure they will be able to contain the cost to 9L on the road" - Let us discuss about Abarth Punto Evo here and set aside dreams for other brands to some other thread.
Sir, please relax!
To give you a little background, there is a discussion about the suspected development of Abarth Linea (Link (Fiat contemplating Abarth Linea for India)). The difference of about 2.5L on top of current 1.4L petrol, is a guesstimate for Abarth Linea, if such a car is developed. What I mentioned was the difference seems to have come true for Punto & Avventura, roughly. This is simply a guesstimate, and not any information leaked through some sources, or based on some serious cost breakup estimation. (Pricing is an aspect, even some very established manufacturers fail to get it right sometimes, after their market study).

By the way, I was not at all indicating that the price was too high (or too low, either!).
About the current price - In the last few launches (not Fiat though), the introductory prices were revised immediately after the launch. Based on that premise, and seeing the price tag as 9.95L to bring it just below 10L ex-showroom, isn't it giving enough signs that, the revision will follow soon? If my statement was giving any misdirections I will take it back.
About the Swift - please consider it an Off topic observation. Without any rumours, or some facts, we will not open any threads.
Hope I clarified my statements, Have a nice day!

Last edited by hybridpetrol : 19th October 2015 at 17:08.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:19   #594
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Good pricing for such a car. Hope the FE stays with 10kmpl atleast though.
And hope the Linea Tjet owners can get the remapped now.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:27   #595
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
So, Fiat added about 2.6L for Punto Evo, and about 2.5L for Avventura. For most places, the price should come around 12L - 12.5L OTR for both these.
A month ago, I had mentioned that they probably would add about 1L-1.5L for the additional 30 horses, and another 1L-1.5L for the Abarth badging and Decals, when the discussion was about the suspected Abarth Linea. So, the difference approximately matches
What is sure is that, this is just sticker price, and will increase in another few months. It might increase immediately after the festive season also.
To satisfy enthusiasts desire: Will they lend this turbocharged 1.4L T-jet engine with the same 140 hp to Maruti, so that they can put it in the Swift? Fiat has been selling great engines at the cost of their own car sales. So I guess it does not matter anyway. A Swift with this heart, probably at 9L OTR, will fetch a lot more buyers for this engine, and add to the popularity of Fiat engines!
Was wondering why such post was not appearing earlier. Ah there is comes.

Firstly when did Punto have a Tjet to get just additional 30 horses. The Punto always had the 1.4 FIRE with 90 odd PS. The Tjet and the Fire engines are different as chalk and cheese.

I would seriously like to believe that you were just joking about the Swift. Maruti Suzuki has been abusing the word Sporty to the core by slapping stickers and selling the same car as Sport variants. And you are expecting them to plonk the Tjet and launch a sport variant. Fantastic dream is what I can call it. At least Fiat is showing some guts to launch a powerful hatch (not making a car powerful with stickers just like the swift )

Also care to share the source of price revision you are talking about. I cannot recollect reading that Fiat announcing it is an introductory price.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:34   #596
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

After spending a long time waiting, finally the Abarth is launched in India.

Reading the opinions here, I'm amazed to see such polarizations among the members regarding this product. Overall though, I'm eagerly waiting for the official report/review to confirm what the general consensus has been regarding the performance. Hope the other manufacturers take note and we get good competition in this segment, which is what has been missing.

Time to start saving some Vitamin M :P
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:38   #597
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

A lot has been said about the engine, but nobody talks about the dampers. We still have no real review of the handling of the car.
If there is anything wrong with the polo its the handling and dynamics. Only a drive will tell you if the higher price is worth it.

The power to weight figures are very good using a assumed kerb weight of 1100 kg. I spoke to the Fiat cafe people in blr today and they said the car is coming in 2 days.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:40   #598
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Finally it's launched!
A white Punto Abarth, minus all the stickering, a little gloss black around the fogs, etc. would look sweet!

In all this GT TSi v/s Punto talk - we are forgetting one important tid-bit: The Punto might just be a lot more tuner friendly than the DSG! A remap, pushing around 180bhp on this car would make it a true monster!

Throw in better ride and handling, a hydraulic steering, and better reliability than it's closest rival = one of the rare pure enthusiast hatches, just like it's elder sister - the 1.6 GTX! Yes, even the ergonomics on the GTX were flawed.

Now to just find a Fiat dealership in town - on the bright side, they may just have more dealerships than Nissan does!

It's moments like these when I wish I was in the market for a fun hatch, or rather my head didn't bully the heart so much!

Last edited by lamborghini : 19th October 2015 at 17:42.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:44   #599
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
A lot has been said about the engine, but nobody talks about the dampers. We still have no real review of the handling of the car.
If there is anything wrong with the polo its the handling and dynamics. Only a drive will tell you if the higher price is worth it.

The power to weight figures are very good using a assumed kerb weight of 1100 kg. I spoke to the Fiat cafe people in blr today and they said the car is coming in 2 days.
Having sat in the car when driven around the track I can certainly tell you the handling is not bad at all, it is much better than the regular Punto Evo which was anyways better than Polo at the first place. Cannot comment much about the ride as it was driven on the track and a drive on the crappy roads of Bangalore will surely how good or bad the ride is

The tyres squeal at every single opportunity. An upgrade to a sticky rubber is a must to enjoy this car.
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Old 19th October 2015, 17:51   #600
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Great car, good specs, hottest hatch...no doubts on that.
But with its peculiar looks and a hefty 11-12+ OTR price tag, only pure enthusiasts would buy it. Is selling limited number of cars a strategy of Fiat? It is obvious that this would not be a money spinner for Fiat. Isin't it a cause of worry if your car's manufacturer doesn't have even one car that is selling in high numbers? (like previous gen Figo or ES for Ford). How would Fiat sustain in India? And if it doesn't then who would provide service for these great cars?
For that matter only people who are in love with Fiat buy Fiat cars, my first car was a Fiat. If Fiat was to shut shop due to low sales, they should have done that long back. Their business model majorly revolves around the engine business, the 1.3 MJD, India's national engine which powers 19 cars across 5 manufacturers
Maruti: 7 models
Fiat: 4 models
Chevy: 4 models
TATA: 3 models
Premier: 1 model
Fiat will survive until the other manufacturers develop their own diesel engines for respective cars.
IMO Fiat can charge a premium , which they definitely have, since you can't buy any other 145 bhp car in 12 lacs other than the Abarth Punto unless the GTI comes, but the prices would just about fall south of 20 lacs, if at all VW can manage such pricing.
Moreover Fiat India is an engine manufacturer which retails cars too
Data source: motorbash.com

Last edited by Karthik Chandra : 19th October 2015 at 17:53.
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