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Old 20th October 2015, 11:20   #661
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Love the fact that they have also equipped the car with disc brakes all around. The Punto has one of the nicest brakes even with drums at the rear, they are proper anchors. Wonder how this will be like.

Hope they have worked on the positioning of the steering as well. Like in the A-star, its set really high even in the lowest position and spoils the feel of the car.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:21   #662
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

fiat must be praised and thanked by indian motoring community for having the courage and vision to launch the Punto Abarth. All our lives we begged for car manufacturers to bring in their hot hatch at an affordable price and fiat actually listened to our requests and brought out one.

Honestly speaking there should not be a single complaint from any one. Rather we should show our support to fiat and buy this in huge numbers...!!!

The success of the Punto Abarth can only mean 1 thing i.e more and more manufacturers bringing in their hot hatches at the similar price point and more choice for us.

Last edited by rana_kirti : 20th October 2015 at 11:23.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:31   #663
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
I own a Linea T-Jet and have found the driving position to be absolutely perfect from day 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Punto and Linea have sub-par driving position set up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rav11stars View Post
You echoed my thoughts there bro! I drive on and on for hours without even noticing that it's been more than 10 hours since I stopped for a break
I believe driving ergonomics is very subjective, as it can vary from person to person based on their physical structure and driving position preferences.

That is why ALL cars NEED to have tilt/reach steering adjustments, adjustable lumbar support, adjustable neck restraint, armrest and adjustable thigh support. However, NONE of the mass market car manufacturers offer ALL of these basic yet essential features even in their million rupee cars.

I deem these features as essential as ABS/Airbags for long-term safety of the driver.

Last edited by ashwin489 : 20th October 2015 at 11:32.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:40   #664
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin489 View Post
I believe driving ergonomics is very subjective, as it can vary from person to person based on their physical structure and driving position preferences.

That is why ALL cars NEED to have tilt/reach steering adjustments, adjustable lumbar support, adjustable neck restraint, armrest and adjustable thigh support. However, NONE of the mass market car manufacturers offer ALL of these basic yet essential features even in their million rupee cars.

I deem these features as essential as ABS/Airbags for long-term safety of the driver.
Exactly. Arbitrarily deciding that something is sub-par, even without experiencing it long term is a bit unfair, IMHO.

For the record - I am 52 years old, with lower back and knee issues. The longest I have driven my T-Jet is for 16 hours, with bare minimum breaks and did not feel fatigued. So it is good enough for me, sub-par or otherwise.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:41   #665
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
The on road price of Abarth Punto Evo in Bangalore is 11.16 lakhs.
As per the article, the on road price in Delhi is Rs 11.16 lakhs.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:45   #666
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

My perspective about the ergonomics of the Fiats. I drive a 2012 Tjet and have done 9k kms in 20 odds days amongst my other drives and have put 50k kms in 3 years. I prefer this car over my Scorpio for really long distances. The Scorpio has done about 80k in 5 years. I have done 1200 km single day drive as well in the Linea. We (the family and I) are extremely happy with it when we have to take it out.

Compared to the Scorpio, the Fiat has given us the better (and cheaper) service experience. The only issue we had is a leak in the AC gas and it took 2 days to diagnose. The service team was on top of the issue and kept me informed all through. No power window malfunction, squeaky seats, door rattles, boot not opening or any other niggles.

A lot of things get written about Fiat but it is important to put down an owner's perspective as well. I feel it will be a travesty if people disregard this car just because non-owner's dont have a good view about the brand. Like I said, I own both brands right now and I have no reason to be biased against any one.

Coming to the Abarth Punto, I would love to own this car at some point. I can only imagine how insane it would be to drive this on an open highway or in the Ghats. I have a lot of fun in my tjet and they way I see it, this has 30% more power, no boot (less weight) & better suspension. In my Linea, there is a bit of torque steer in the first gear. I get a kick when it happens. lol. I feel I will go nuts when I floor the A pedal in the Abarth Punto.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:58   #667
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Evo Abarth / T-Jet EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodvayyat View Post
Going by what has happened so far in this thread, any attempt by any car brand would be termed as a half-hearted one - easily. How can such an improvement for a car would be half-hearted when the improvement itself is significantly brilliant than any other attempt made by any other manufacturer?
By the same logic, I would term any of the existing affordable cars as manifestations of half/no-hearted attempts.

I understand if you say that you wished FIAT had better gear throws rather than "a better gear box", for the fact that none of the reviews so far have talked about a bad tuned gear box. Let it come to showrooms first, have a test drive and then crib about bad gear box.

Spare the fanboys and even enthusiasts - no obligations to certify one's own desire for performance cars by buying one - or do we need so as to continue our discussions here?

For the good parts that you've mentioned, I hope someone would go and own this beast to have the first ownership thread started in T-BHP.

Cheers.
I don't want to comment on other cars since this is a Punto thread. If Abarth Punto is perfect , be it, not to me. And in same way if all other cars out there are half hearted attempt according to you, so be it(after all its your opinion and I don't intend to change).

Regarding gearbox below is what Motoroids who have tested the car has to say:
All this combined provides a really great driving experience for any petrolhead. Except for one really annoying fly in the ointment. Itís the rubbery feel of the gearbox. The same problem which has plagued all the Puntos, has been carried over to this. Not that the gears donít slot in properly or the ratios arenít good. Itís just the shifting feel which is missing from an otherwise soulful car. And that really gets my goat. Everything in this car is perfect, from the power to the brakes to the handling to the way it engages the driver. But the moment you shift a gear, you just feel like theyíve been a little lazy in ironing out the gearbox issues.

I am no mechanical expert, and I don't know if the issue can be resolved on existing gearbox or it is as designed. All I can say is the car deserves a better gearbox(resolve existing one or plonk a new one).

Nobody is obliged to buy any car. Given that there are so many enthusiast and fiat fanboys here I was expecting at least few to book the car.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:59   #668
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Evo Abarth / T-Jet EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Drivers get used to the long clutch travel, turbo lag, rubbery gear shift, lack of power, lack of ground-clearance etc. as they get accustomed with the car. A lot of "feel good/right" factors should be considered at first impression. That way, the Punto and Linea have sub-par driving position set up.
For a moment, I thought I should ignore this beaten-to-death topic, but then couple of points caught my attention. First, "lack of ground-clearance" - you do realize there are merits in low ground clearance, right? Just because you don't care for certain benefits, it doesn't make it a flaw. Same goes for seating position. Honestly I liked my Corsa's seat over my Linea's but I have heard from people that they like Linea's seats. Basically this means not everyone has same requirements.

I agree with other points to some extent, although I don't know why you brought up the "rubbery gear" when there have been talks of improved gear shifts.
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:13   #669
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
Will dive back in and take my chance.

Unfortunately your scarsam does raise some points against Fiat in India, and for that matter world over, but will stick with 'Bharat' because today VW is:

1. The more premium brand, and premium means better which is very important in the Indian context.
Agreed. This can only happen in India though. A brand which literally means "the people's car" is considered premium here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
2. Has the better percieved quality, and I mean visual quality as in fit and finish, quality of plastics, beadings etc. Fiat's may last longer, but the first impression is crap, and you know what they say about first impressions.
VW is well put together but I'd personally rate the overall build quality of a Fiat as better. I have first hand experience of the build quality in a FIAT. I have not had the same experience in a VW and I don't want to go through the same in a VW car just to see if it will hold up well as the Fiat, but i say this from having spent time in a few friends' VW cars,. The beadings are of very good quality in the FIAT. 14 years, and the original beadings in the GTX are still going strong. Its commendable because out of the 14 years, its been parked in the sun/rain for 12 years.

Quality of plastics have improved by leaps and bounds in the FIAT. I have no complaints in the Linea as far as plastic quality is concerned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
3. Has better ergonomics. I don't think any Italian brand will stand a chance in this category. This is subjective, but mud usually sticks.
Agreed. Ergonomics in the Linea is not spot on and takes time to get used to it. It takes time, but doesn't really get in the way of anything. It's not a deal breaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
4. Has the more up to date, cutting edge technology. It doesn't matter if issues crop up because its too cutting edge for India, but it's the latest so it must be the best.
Agreed. But beg to differ from the "if its latest, it must be the best"; It's not a thumb rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
5. Has the better resale value by a galactic mile.
Perhaps. But who in the right mind would sell it? These cars are *usually* (and I repeat, usually) not bought with an intention to use for a few years and pass on. These are keepers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
6. Has the better percieved service because it's a more premium brand, and because Fiat shot itself in the foot when it started out with TATA, and that label ain't going away. This is debatable, but will give it to VW.
Hugely debatable. But you have used the right word i.e., perceived.

The horror stories and the cost of maintenance of VW abound in the interweb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
So Fiat's good, solid, dependable, old-tech driver oriented car's don't stand a chance whatever they do. Must have been mad to buy the T-Jet.
Yes. I'd like to think it's because of us that they have a fighting chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
Just wish they had gone that extra bit and corrected issues in the new launches that really wouldn't have required a lot of investment. Small things to improve percieved quality would have gone a long way (I repeat 'impression matters'), and maybe a shorter throw on the gearbox since it seems to be one of those nagging issues and only means redesigning a mechanical linkage.
Agreed. But maybe its not as simple as that. Many of these components are licensed to FIAT India by Fiat Powertrain Technologies. Perhaps, the terms of licensing do not allow changes. Or maybe, the changes wouldn't make it as reliable. I don't know...Just speculating here.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 20th October 2015 at 13:31. Reason: Please avoid quoting and responding inline. Post edited.
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:16   #670
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Evo Abarth / T-Jet EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

finally PUNTO ABARTH gets the long ignored rear stabilizer bar,it adds nimbleness to rear of the car,

me thinks, reduction in ground clearance is purely because of side-skirts/running-board which are added for the 145hp PUNTO,
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:35   #671
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post
fiat must be praised and thanked by indian motoring community for having the courage and vision to launch the Punto Abarth. All our lives we begged for car manufacturers to bring in their hot hatch at an affordable price and fiat actually listened to our requests and brought out one.

Honestly speaking there should not be a single complaint from any one. Rather we should show our support to fiat and buy this in huge numbers...!!!

The success of the Punto Abarth can only mean 1 thing i.e more and more manufacturers bringing in their hot hatches at the similar price point and more choice for us.
Yes, 145hp in recent times is unheard of in a hatchback, that too costing around 12L OTR. Most of us are usually satisfied by 90 hp (or even much lesser). What Fiat has given is "something more" to feel the acceleration!

Since there is no segment exists in India as of now to classify such cars with higher state of tune, comparison to a lot of cars cannot be avoided.
Some comparisons that might occur:

a) "Swift Glory with similar or better stickering is available 5L lesser."
b) "Honda City, Ciaz etc - C2 sedans are available at the same price or even less"
c) "You could buy Creta petrol 1.6L for similar price, or even the Ecosport with Ecoboost engine"
d) "Spend 12L for a petrol car? There are several top version Diesel cars for the same price!"
e) More sporty Renault Kwid, with touch screen is available at 4.5L!

Disclaimer(!): Nobody actually told the above statements, but you will come across these or even funnier statements.

The comparison with all sorts of cars with all budgets is possible, since the segment is entirely new.

Hence other manufacturers try to create confusion among buyers, and try to showcase their cars as VFM. Why do you think Maruti is promoting Swift Glory as a Sports car at this point of time? And a "sporty" Ciaz RS?

Agreed completely that nobody with awareness would settle for a Swift, if they are eyeing for an Abarth. But here, awareness is the key.

This is the reason, I believe, the Abarth Punto / Avventura will not create any difference in Fiat car sales. (Ok, Fiat does not consider their car sales as their primary business in India)
Our mass manufacturers will continue to concentrate on the mass segment where ticking all the boxes within a low price tag counts.
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:37   #672
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

How easy is it to reduce the ugly ground clearance of the Punto Evo by say 20mm?

I remember F.A.S.S charging 1.5k for increasing the ground clearance of the pre 2012 Grande Punto and Linea.
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Old 20th October 2015, 12:48   #673
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay_b View Post

How easy is it to reduce the ugly ground clearance of the Punto Evo by say 20mm?

I remember F.A.S.S charging 1.5k for increasing the ground clearance of the pre 2012 Grande Punto and Linea.
So technically akshay_b, FIAT will actually pay you 1.5k to reduce the ground clearance now bro!!

Jokes apart, I am no expert but I am quite sure that decreasing the height of a ride can be accomplished by many aftermarket workshops. If its FIAT you have real confidence in, probably they may just charge you for the labour and nothing more.
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Old 20th October 2015, 13:00   #674
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

My only concern with the T-jet was how the plastics and beadings would fare. Beadings are easier to change, but was dreading the thought of internal plastics fading. Good to know that your beadings have held up for 14 years, which gives me hope in keeping the car for the planned 10 years.

4. Has the more up to date, cutting edge technology. It doesn't matter if issues crop up because its too cutting edge for India, but it's the latest so it must be the best.

Agreed. But beg to differ from the "if its latest, it must be the best"; It's not a thumb rule.

Tongue in cheek, that's what I meant.
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Old 20th October 2015, 13:11   #675
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Default Re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Finally THE ABARTH is here!!

Now I can think of selling my Palio 1.6 Sports and buy the new hot hatch!!
Bang on pricing by FIAT as always!

Hope they expand the showrooms and service center to support ABARTH fans!
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