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Old 29th August 2015, 00:03   #121
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by chohan View Post
This comes as a surprise because slotting into third gear is the easiest part of the gearbox. This is what i usually do, give a gentle shove to the gear lever from second gear without worrying about the gear shift pattern design. It automatically slots into third.
The same technique is followed while downshifting from fourth to third.
It should be easy unless you are straightaway jumping into third from first gear.
I personally find slotting into second gear the toughest part.
And I agree. Slotting into third and fourth are the easiest bits. Second and fifth is where I feel more effort is required. But the gears slot in nicely. I have driven, apart from our own Linea, Punto and T-Jet and have never found any problems with gears slotting into place. Changing from fourth to fifth in one movement is not possible and that is what irritates me the most, but only when I want to change the gear fast.
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Old 29th August 2015, 10:50   #122
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post

On to the gearbox, I've ended up gnashing the gearbox several times on my T Jet when I was trying to make a quick getaway. Slotting third is where it goes wrong on my car. There is no fault with my gearbox. The shift action could have been a lot better though.
Try double-declutching between 2nd and 3rd to determine if u have a problem with your gearbox. If it goes in smoothly, you might have to adapt your shifting style to suit the gearbox.
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Old 29th August 2015, 19:52   #123
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
Try double-declutching between 2nd and 3rd to determine if u have a problem with your gearbox. If it goes in smoothly, you might have to adapt your shifting style to suit the gearbox.
Double clutching is stone age era technique! I and I don't know double clutching can yield any notable find for fault finding. Here's a link with it's explanation and purpose.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doub...tch_(technique)






http://m.autocarindia.com/Article.as...7179&type=News

And there is Hyundai's response. Not per se but Hyundai now has a kitty in her bag as a competitor for GT and Abarth. How long before it hits our shores!

Last edited by firstguri : 29th August 2015 at 20:12. Reason: Adding content and spelling correction.
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Old 30th August 2015, 07:31   #124
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by firstguri View Post
Double clutching is stone age era technique! I and I don't know double clutching can yield any notable find for fault finding.
It may be as you say from a 'stone age era', but it works and provides a smoother transition even with a synchro box. Try it and see.
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Old 30th August 2015, 14:36   #125
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
Yes. Maybe the audio in the video was not very good, but even my stock Punto 1.2 sounds better than this
I agree. From what I have read, it sounds like Linea's T-Jet (which is pretty good).
Muted was used w.r.t the normal non-sporty exhaust note.
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Old 31st August 2015, 16:03   #126
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
If it goes in smoothly, you might have to adapt your shifting style to suit the gearbox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chohan View Post
This comes as a surprise because slotting into third gear is the easiest part of the gearbox.
Slotting in third or any gear for that matter is not a problem if your driving pattern in easy going, which it is 99% of the time. There is no mechanical fault with my gearbox too. Try shifting gears much faster than you normally would and that is when the shift action suffers a lot. It is bad. Spend some time in a Brio, Swift or i20 and tell me what you think. That is when the down sides of the Fiat gearbox will hit you. The long travel clutch, which could have shorter and lighter, ads to the overall problem too. None if this should find a place in a performance car, which is what Abarth is all about.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 31st August 2015 at 16:04.
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Old 31st August 2015, 16:23   #127
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Slotting in third or any gear for that matter is not a problem if your driving pattern in easy going, which it is 99% of the time. There is no mechanical fault with my gearbox too. Try shifting gears much faster than you normally would and that is when the shift action suffers a lot. It is bad.
Bingo!! You nailed it. Normal course slotting gears is not an issue (I am talking about the Punto here. I believe the gear action is similar). The moment you try slotting in a little fast, the problems come up. Long clutch travel doesn't help either.

I would say shift quality in Swift or for that matter Polo is miles ahead.
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Old 31st August 2015, 16:36   #128
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Slotting in third or any gear for that matter is not a problem if your driving pattern in easy going, which it is 99% of the time. There is no mechanical fault with my gearbox too. Try shifting gears much faster than you normally would and that is when the shift action suffers a lot. It is bad. Spend some time in a Brio, Swift or i20 and tell me what you think. That is when the down sides of the Fiat gearbox will hit you. The long travel clutch, which could have shorter and lighter, ads to the overall problem too. None if this should find a place in a performance car, which is what Abarth is all about.
I have a Swift, and had a Baleno before I got the T-jet and never had a problem shifting quickly when required, and without mashing the gears. I agree that the Honda's have a lovely shift action, but I have gladly given up a the long throw clutch + rubbery shift for other virtues that the T-Jet has. In the end it all comes down to one's priorities.

I do find that the T-Jets transmission feels sticky first thing in the morning, and you have to be really, really precises and delibrate when engaging gears. So until the car warms up, I use the double-declutch technique which to me is easier than trying to hunt for a gear.

On a lighter note, the one of the best gearbox I have used so far is the column shifter on my mom's 1100D. Boy did that have a rifle bolt like shift action.
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Old 1st September 2015, 00:15   #129
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
I have a Swift, and had a Baleno before I got the T-jet and never had a problem shifting quickly when required, and without mashing the gears. I agree that the Honda's have a lovely shift action, but I have gladly given up a the long throw clutch + rubbery shift for other virtues that the T-Jet has. In the end it all comes down to one's priorities.
Not sure about the T-JET, but it is a problem when you want to shift quick in EVO MJD. I don't find the gearbox rubbery per se, but I do find it quite stringent when it comes to slotting gate patterns. In a swift, I could zig zag my way out; in a Punto, I have to follow the gate pattern patiently. Especially the 2->1 downshift is always tricky. Either stalled or faced blaring horns from behind because of this in the initial days. This itself is not a concern for me. I can happily live with this. But in a car like Abarth, this could become a major cause of concern when you have so much power on tap and you're stuck slotting the gears through its gates patiently.
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Old 1st September 2015, 06:01   #130
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by Ryuu View Post
Not sure about the T-JET, but it is a problem when you want to shift quick in EVO MJD. I don't find the gearbox rubbery per se, but I do find it quite stringent when it comes to slotting gate patterns. In a swift, I could zig zag my way out; in a Punto, I have to follow the gate pattern patiently. Especially the 2->1 downshift is always tricky. Either stalled or faced blaring horns from behind because of this in the initial days. This itself is not a concern for me. I can happily live with this. But in a car like Abarth, this could become a major cause of concern when you have so much power on tap and you're stuck slotting the gears through its gates patiently.
Personally, I would rather have an iffy gearbox with power, instead of a slick gearbox with iffy power.
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Old 1st September 2015, 21:13   #131
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

Lots of questions about Punto Abarth answered.

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When talking cars, Ďperformanceí and Ďbudgetí are two words that you donít often mention in the same breath. Especially in our part of the world. Thereís always a compromise that you have to make, either in the name of family needs, practicality or fuel-economy. However, thereís always an exception. And in this case, itís the hot hatch segment.
We got our very first taste of a hot hatchback almost a decade and a half back when Fiat introduced the famous Palio 1.6 GTX. Back then, the GTX was the Usain Bolt amongst the mundane point A to point B hatchbacks. And in the modern era too, itís Fiat who has decided to let its Italian performance brand, the Abarth, take the hot-hatch legacy forward in India.
Thatís exactly why we have this matte grey Punto Evo back on our website. When launched this festive season, it will be called the Abarth Punto Evo, and in this fiery avatar, it just looks smashing hot. Although the design stays largely unchanged from the Punto with Fiat logos, the special paintjob Ė tastefully garnished with orange decals Ė gives this Italian beauty its own identity. Plus, that famous scoprion logo on the hood does give you a hint of something powerful lurking underneath, and the Abarth designed 16-inch wheels look aggressive, adds to the sporty looks.

Apart from the sporty touches, Fiat India has also kept in mind Indian customerís love for chrome. There is enough chrome on the grille, the bumpers and door handles to keep the bling-loving audience happy. The sportier theme continues on the inside with an-all black colour theme for dashboard and seat fabrics. Plus, the seats and the instrument cluster get a yellow and red colour finish (colours from the Abarth logo), adding some flair to the otherwise largely unchanged design.
Now coming to the most important change in the Punto that makes it so special Ė the engine. The turbocharged 1386cc motor is the same that motivates the Linea T-jet, so you know the guys at Fiat in India had a strong base to work with. However, they didnít just plonk the T-jet motor from the Linea into the Punto without any modifications. The engineers decided the Abarth Punto needed more power and thatís why, in its current state of tune, the engine makes around 145bhp and has 211Nm of pulling power.
After that visual treat inside out, and that impressive spec sheet, thereís a bit of anticlimax once the motor is started. You would expect a loud roar or at least a deep rumble from the exhaust. But, what you greeted to is a quite, refined sounding engine. As we move out of the parking lot and make our way through city roads, the Punto sounds calm and composed. Nothing unusual again.

But sanity last only till we find an open highway and floor the pedal. As expected there was a bit of turbo-lag until the needle reached 2000rpm, but once past that, it feels like someoneís hit the fast forward button. A sprint to 100kph from standstill comes in 9.41sec Ė making it the first of the mainstream hatchbacks to crack the 10second barrier. And if the right pedal is buried to the floor, the Abarth Punto will quickly cross 180kph.
In case you are wondering, the brakes have been worked on too. The Abarth Punto comes with disc brakes on all four wheels, with ABS and EBD as standard. Surely those numbers are impressive but straight-line top speed means nothing in the real world. Out on the road a lot depends on how the car behaves around corners.
Once we are done with those silly thrills of sudden bursts of speeds, we head out to some winding roads. Turning into a tight corner and thereís a bit of understeer before the grippy tyres take total control and the Punto maintains its set course. The steering is not buzzing with feel like it used to in the earlier car but it is precise. There are some sideways movements around corners but not once did it lose it composure.
Speaking of composure, we were expecting the ride to be stiffer, especially with a 30mm drop in ground clearance. But we are happy to say thatís not the case. Although spring ratings have been tighten a bit, the ride is supple while driving on straights or going over bumps. Though thereís a drop in ground clearance it still high enough (155mm) for the underbelly to not leave its mark on the speed bumps.

The versatile trait of the Abarth Punto Evo is what makes this package so attractive. Itís been developed in India, which means most components have been sourced from Fiatís existing parts bin. So expect this hot hatch to be priced aggressive and should sit somewhere under the Rs 10 lakh ex-showroom bracket.
Leaving performance aside what makes us fall in love with this car is: if you remove the fancy badging this is an ordinary looking hatch. It can carry four adults in relative comfort along with luggage. It does 11kpl (city and highway combined) which means you donít need to own a petrol pump to pay for those fuel bills. Though it has 145 horses under the hood it is fairly easy to drive in the city. But when that light turns green, and traffic fades way in the rear-view mirror, you know the Abarth Punto Evo is something special.
Specs
In-line, 4cyl, 1386cc, 145bhp, 211Nm, 0-100kph: 9.41s, 30-50kph in 3rd: 3.91s, 30-50kph in 4th: 7.48s, 50-70kph in 5th: 9.46s, top speed: 180kph (approx.), fuel efficiency: 11kpl (overall), Price: Rs 10 lakh, ex-showroom (estimated).
source - topgear
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Old 1st September 2015, 23:14   #132
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Does the car have ISOFIX?
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Old 2nd September 2015, 11:00   #133
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by super.cars View Post

Lots of questions about Punto Abarth answered.

Specs
In-line, 4cyl, 1386cc, 145bhp
Couldn't agree more with you super.cars but personally, it has left me with Lot more questions "UN-answered" !!


So Punto Abarth is supposed to be the first mainstream "Hot Hatch" in India. I really commend and appreciate the efforts from FIAT. But, here is the data I pulled out:

Punto EVO Abarth T-jet

0-100kph: 9.41s, 30-50kph in 3rd: 3.91s, 30-50kph in 4th: 7.48s, 50-70kph in 5th: 9.46s, 11kpl (overall), Top speed: 180kph


VW 1.2 GT TSI

0-100 in 10.85sec, 30-50kph in 3rd 1.89sec, 50-70kph in 4th 2.48sec, 12.7 (Overall), Top speed: 172kph


VW 1.6 GT TDI

0-100 in 10.27sec, 30-50 in 3rd: 2.8sec, 30-50 in 4th: 5.49sec, 50-70 in 5th: 5.47sec, 15.11 (Overall), Top speed: 180kph


So, the way I see it, FIAT have there work cut out for them and probably have to do some, if not all of the following to really bring the fight to the current leaders:

- Reduce the Weight in the final production to improve the performance.

- Stick to your claim of pricing it in and around 10lk bracket.

- Rework on the gear box to improve the gear shifts

- If feasible, add a 6th Cog to the gear box to improve fuel efficiency. In India at least, you just cannot have a manual car that is less fuel efficient than an auto tranny, more so if that is a petrol.


The GT's also have been updated with some really useful features such as cooled glove box, electrically adjustable/retractable ORVMs, etc. Now with the added 'Cruise Control' as a standard feature, every new owner will have a Fast and Frugal hatch to keep that smile plastered !!

The GT twins from the German Giants have established themselves quite well and have been accepted by people as well. So Fiat have to bring in a lot with Abarth to knock these 2 niche products off the throne.


P.S - I could not get the data for the 1.5 GT TDI but I am quite sure it is not way off the numbers from the 1.6 GT TDi.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 2nd September 2015 at 11:07.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 11:18   #134
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

1.6 GT TDI is a diesel and I feel it should not be brought up for the comparison with the Tjet Abarth. If and when Fiat launches the 1.6 MJD it will be an apt comparison.

The gearbox, longer throws and the clutch is definitely robbing of some time in the 0-100 dash. The DSG is doing its job quite well on the 1.2 TSI. Its a very good combo.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 11:53   #135
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Default re: A Close Look: Fiat Punto Abarth. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 9.95 lakhs!

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
...

Punto EVO Abarth T-jet

0-100kph: 9.41s, 30-50kph in 3rd: 3.91s, 30-50kph in 4th: 7.48s, 50-70kph in 5th: 9.46s, 11kpl (overall), Top speed: 180kph


VW 1.2 GT TSI

0-100 in 10.85sec, 30-50kph in 3rd 1.89sec, 50-70kph in 4th 2.48sec, 12.7 (Overall), Top speed: 172kph


VW 1.6 GT TDI

0-100 in 10.27sec, 30-50 in 3rd: 2.8sec, 30-50 in 4th: 5.49sec, 50-70 in 5th: 5.47sec, 15.11 (Overall), Top speed: 180kph
....
Interesting. To be honest I didn't think that 9.4 mark for 0-100 was that impressive(or important), but was hoping it would blast everything under 20 lakhs when it comes to timings like 30-50 in 3rd etc. Wonder why it performs so abysmally? Would something like 40-120 in 3rd gear give a better picture?

Last edited by avisidhu : 2nd September 2015 at 11:54.
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