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Old 12th August 2015, 14:57   #1
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Default India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

Earlier this year, there were rumours that the Government of India was considering skipping a stage in emission norms and adopting BS-VI standards. Now however, the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways has revealed that it does not plan to skip the BS-V stage.

BS-V emission norms will be implemented in India in 2019. A committee appointed by the government claims that for the transition from BS-IV to BS-V, the automotive industry would have to invest Rs 50,000 crore (approximately). Refineries would need to invest about Rs 60,000 crore to produce diesel that meets BS-V requirements.

The government plans to implement BS-VI norms in 2023.

India is approximately 5 years behind Europe in emission norms. A leap from BS-IV to BS-VI would have enabled it to close this gap considerably. However, automobile manufacturers had been trying to get the government to avoid skipping the BS-V stage.

Source: Economic Times
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Old 12th August 2015, 15:49   #2
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

The one thing I don't understand is that the Govt starts all this, but we don't get the matching fuel at all. AFAIK in Kerala, we still get E3 Fuel. It is creating a lot of issues to many vehicles like Chevy Cruze. Many models get faulty fuel pump just because of this. Govt should ensure both ends not just one. Oil companies should be instructed to give similar fuels also to get the maximum of these regulations.

Last edited by GTO : 13th August 2015 at 12:44. Reason: Typos
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Old 12th August 2015, 19:49   #3
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

It is not enough if vehicles coming out of the factory adhere to pollution norms. If the government can't ensure that vehicles currently plying on the road are maintained afterwards, and do not pollute (esp Autos, Buses, rickety taxis), then all of this is an exercise in futility.
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:01   #4
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Now however, the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways has revealed that it does not plan to skip the BS-V stage.
Sense prevails.

But in our ad hoc decision, knee jerk reaction country, with vested interests everywhere, nothing is ever the last word.

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Old 12th August 2015, 20:03   #5
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

Some vehicles with older BS engines cannot be registered in Delhi. They get it done from outside and then happily ply on Delhi roads. How do the government check that ? Whole point gets defeated by this. They have to be proactive and ensure all India implementation on urgent basis.

I am quite sure the money lost in medical and productivity expenses due to air pollution is much more than this 50k crore.

Auto industries are always reluctant to shell money on their part as is evident from their safety standards.

With Modi government's approach towards industry this was expected.
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Old 12th August 2015, 20:51   #6
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

This is good, so no double jump from BS-IV to BS-VI.
Our friends in SIAM must be happy now that this will not compromise vehicle safety - Link (SIAM says BS-VI emission norms will compromise vehicle safety!)

Also, with such rollouts our government must also make sure that the fuels conforming to these standards are made available all over the country, hope there is a plan to address this.

Last edited by NPV : 12th August 2015 at 20:54.
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Old 13th August 2015, 13:13   #7
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
The one thing I don't understand is that the Govt starts all this, but we don't get the matching fuel at all. AFAIK in Kerala, we still get E3 Fuel.
Kerala is supposed to get Bharat4 fuel only from April 2017 onward.
The Oil companies are doing exactly what they have been told by the esteemed Govt of India.

Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Pune, Surat, Kanpur, Lucknow, Sholapur, Jamshedpur and Agra are the only cities in India to be on BS4 today. Rest of India remains BS3.

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Also, with such rollouts our government must also make sure that the fuels conforming to these standards are made available all over the country, hope there is a plan to address this.
I can assure you that the BS4 fuel will be available pan India by the stipulated due date.

No refinery needs any capital expenditure (except certain internal blending systems) to meet this demand.
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Old 14th August 2015, 07:30   #8
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Default Re: India will not skip BS-V emission norms; BS-V coming in 2019

Manufacturers can as early as possible go to the mark of Euro 5 and 6 and I suggest if they could go for Euro 6: Road Transport and Highways Minister Nitin Gadkari

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/incen...adkari-1206942

Quote:
NEW DELHI: Government will soon come out with a policy offering financial incentives of up to Rs. 1.5 lakh on surrender of vehicles that are over 10 years old to check pollution and ease traffic, Road Transport and Highways Minister Nitin Gadkari today said.

A proposal in this regard is being formulated and the Finance Ministry's nod will be sought on it, he said.

"We are bringing such a scheme that if you sell your old vehicle you will get a certificate which on being produced at the time of new purchase will get you a discount of up to Rs. 50,000.

"For small vehicles like cars it will be up to Rs. 30,000. Besides, there will be exemptions in taxes and total benefits for big vehicles like trucks will be up to Rs. 1.5 lakh," Mr Gadkari said on the sidelines of an global conference on public transport innovation in New Delhi.

The plan is to set up 8-10 industrial units near ports like Kandla which will not only give certificates for accepting old vehicles but would recycle vehicles from India and abroad and thereby give a boost to employment and economy.

"It is a very beneficial industry and would create huge employment," he said, adding that there is an urgent need to recycle as more than 10 years old vehicles were running on roads with old technology which lacks not only safety norms but creates pollution.

"We are going to recommend the scheme to the Finance Ministry... If incentives will be given, it will be easy for people to surrender their old vehicles and get new vehicles of international specifications...may be of Euro 6 standard," he said.

He urged the manufactures to build Euro 6 compliant vehicles as early as possible saying pollution was a big concern for India.

"Already National Green Tribunal has given a decision on pollution.... Manufactures now seeking time for four to five years. Manufacturers can as early as possible go to the mark of Euro 5 and 6 and I suggest if they could go for Euro 6," he said.

Also he called upon foreign manufactures to supply bio-fuel based quality buses at economical prices given the fact that India is a huge market for them.

"We have 1,50,000 buses here. In your country you have 2,000-4,000 buses. Buses here are in lakhs and given the economic viability you can consider supply good quality vehicles at reasonable prices," he said.

Also he asked manufactures to build vehicles based on bio-fuel like bio-ethanol or diesel instead of only diesel version saying government will incentivise such vehicles.

India spends a huge Rs. 8 lakh crore annually on import of crude, and to check it efforts are on to promote ethanol in states like Uttar Pradesh which will also hugely benefit farmers, he said.
Alliance (WASH).

Story First Published: August 13, 2015 16:05 IST
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Old 3rd October 2015, 09:49   #9
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Default Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

Be prepared to shell out plenty of extra cash for your favorite small diesel car in the next 3 to 8 years.

By the next eight years, India would have moved into Bharat Stage 5 and Bharat Stage 6 (or possibly beyond), and that would require significant tweaking in the TWO critical technologies of a diesel car to make it compliant to the new emission norms - the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR).

This could increase the cost of a small diesel car or a compact SUV by a minimum of 65,000 rupees, with a maximum increase in cost by almost 1 lakh rupees, by the time Bharat Stage 6 norms roll out.

Petrol engines, however, will need much simpler tweaks and could see a cost increase of 7,000-11,000 rupees only.

Quote:
Currently, diesel engines require a catalytic converter to be BS4-compliant. To move to BS5 will require both engine calibration as well as installation of the DPF. To move to BS6 will require more engine calibration as well as DPF and SCR. At each level, the cost will go up by Rs 30,000-50,000 for the end customer. In comparison, the gasoline engine will simply require ECU changes for both emission levels, hence the markup will be in the region of Rs 3000-6000 for each level.

Said the technical head of a car maker: "Engine modifications and added technologies will mean small diesels will become too costly once Euro 6 norms kick in. In fact, entry-level diesel vehicles have come down sharply in Europe too after Euro 6 was introduced."

Agreed Kumar Kandaswami, senior director - Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu India: "If you add the cost of mandatory safety features to the cost of migration to the new emission regime, it's clear that the entire mini segment will come under a lot of price pressure leading to a significant migration of first time buyers to used cars from entry level small cars."

Understandably automobile manufacturers are pressing the government for more time to get their resource plans and strategies in place. While BS4 norms will go national from 2017 onwards, the BS 5 & 6 time frames are still under negotiation.
ET Auto
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Old 3rd October 2015, 10:44   #10
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

This could only mean one thing. If you need a reasonable diesel car be prepared to shell out above a million.
B2 segment diesel cars would become costlier by 2+ lakhs compare to their petrol counterparts. Diesel cars for B1 segments will no longer be financially viable.
Add to that the factors that diesel cars have less theoretical lifespan considering the proposed 10 year old vehicle bans, and diesel subsidy removal plans, there wil be no financial advantage for diesel car buyers, making the diesels practically removed from small car space.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 11:09   #11
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Be prepared to shell out plenty of extra cash for your favorite small diesel car in the next 3 to 8 years.

By the next eight years, India would have moved into Bharat Stage 5 and Bharat Stage 6 (or possibly beyond), and that would require significant tweaking in the TWO critical technologies of a diesel car to make it compliant to the new emission norms - the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR).
Wait a min, AFAIK, BS 4 isn't standard across the nation even now. Infact, it was rolled out to a few more cities in addition to the metros only this year, 5 yrs after it was first introduced. Will India really move through 2 emission standards in the next 3-8 years? Although a step in the right direction, I highly doubt the timelines.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 11:25   #12
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Wait a min, AFAIK, BS 4 isn't standard across the nation even now. Infact, it was rolled out to a few more cities in addition to the metros only this year, 5 yrs after it was first introduced. Will India really move through 2 emission standards in the next 3-8 years? Although a step in the right direction, I highly doubt the timelines.
If BS V is skipped to introduce BS VI directly it is possible to introduce the standard country wide before 2025.
The article says the latest timeline for BS IV is 2017, and it might be pushed further to clear BS III vehicle stock.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 11:39   #13
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
This could increase the cost of a small diesel car or a compact SUV by a minimum of 65,000 rupees, with a maximum increase in cost by almost 1 lakh rupees. Petrol engines, however, will need much simpler tweaks and could see a cost increase of 7,000-11,000 rupees only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
B2 segment diesel cars would become costlier by 2+ lakhs compare to their petrol counterparts.
I believe that:
  1. At first, the increased price differential between petrol and diesel cars that you're pointing out will push ambivalent demand towards petrol (ambivalent = people who don't do running to obviously justify a diesel car, but err on the side of diesel, or prefer it for driveability, smaller fuel bills, etc.)
  2. However, automakers will see the increased demand for petrol cars, and will hike prices to narrow the gap - simply because when there's increased demand, prices go up. This can easily be done by automakers quoting at-par prices for BSIV models and a higher price for BSV models (higher than the actual cost of BSV-enablement), similar to what we saw between the BSIII and BSIV transition.
Net result: one more reason for us to pay more for cars!

Last edited by arunphilip : 3rd October 2015 at 12:06.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 12:05   #14
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

IMHO this will be a step in the right direction, which will have a significant impact in improving the air quality in our already choked cities. Considering India's demography there is a high probability of a "huge" potential demand for Diesel cars (especially smaller ones) with increasing disposable income of the "new working class"...If the disincentive to own a small diesel car is not significant, we will be soon footing a far higher medical bill owing to the air quality related ailments than possibly our savings on the fuel bill....

At the same time i agree with arunphilip's point that more demand for petrol cars, will allow the manufacturer's to narrow the gap between diesel and petrol models. In such a scenario, I believe the diesel cars should attract a "significant" cess in order to maintain the "disincentive" as mentioned above...
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Old 3rd October 2015, 12:21   #15
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Default Re: Smaller diesel cars will cost more in the future!

This means that petrol cars will make a comeback as high price differential will make small diesel cars economically unviable. Would not the same logic of higher emission norms not apply to non-small cars also and jack up their prices as well? If that happens, the ratio of petrol or diesel cars will undergo a change. And we might see new and better petrol engines on offer in smaller cars as well.

But for an average consumer this will increase his/her monthly fuel expense bill and make them think twice before taking car out for an outstation trip.
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