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Old 14th August 2015, 12:13   #16
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

I have one question about having a host of safety features such as Airbags, ABS, EBD, ESP, hill hold etc in a low priced car though.
How much all these mean when there is no structural rigidity in the car? For instance, if Tata Nano, with its flimsy build quality, comes up with ABS in its next update (they might, given that they are first in lowest priced car first, then an automatic) . Doesn't such thing lead to a false sense of safety?
When the weak by structure, doesn't these "safety features" turn into a mere marketing gimmick, and only will promote the proliferation of unsafe cars?
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Old 14th August 2015, 12:39   #17
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Yes absolutely in our current context,they are just marketing gimmicks in the view of the manufacturer. Because in the end of the day,they want revenue and profits not customer safety or satisfaction. These were the very words of a high official of a a manufacturer which I happened to read in a thread in our own forum. No one really cares about our (read customer )safety anymore. The only difference being ,in the developed nations they are forced by government mandations and rules to provide safety features and it's not mandatory to do so in developing countries like India. 6 airbags,abs,ebd,tcs,esp will win the hearts of our customers than rigid structure with 2 airbags +abs ebd.
To provide a simple example airbags might save a driver from the steering wheel impact but not from the rear end of the vehicle being hit upon entering the car owing to its weak structure. Hope I have made my point with my paltry English prowess.
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Old 14th August 2015, 12:41   #18
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

Nice thread RSR. I would say the pick of the lot is the Ford Ecosport. Dual Clutch AT, 6 airbags, Hill Assist, ESC all under 10L Ex Showroom. Ford should have done this with the Aspire also. As I mentioned in the Aspire thread, Aspire Titanium+ AT would have been priced at 8.5L Ex Showroom.


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Originally Posted by suyr View Post
VW and Ford must be appreciated for keeping dual airbags standard even on their base offerings. I wish they should also add ABS as standard across all variants and set the benchmark for others to follow.
Ford raised the bar by providing 6 Airbags in a car below 10L price point. Toyota must learn from them, there are no side and curtain airbags even on top end Corolla. Shocking!
Well, Toyota does provide airbags as standard even in the Liva and Etios. That is commendable. Ford actually does not provide airbags on the bottom 2 variants of the Ecosport. Am sure with the refresh due this year, they will add it in. But 2 airbags in the Corolla is disappointing.

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
I have one question about having a host of safety features such as Airbags, ABS, EBD, ESP, hill hold etc in a low priced car though.
How much all these mean when there is no structural rigidity in the car? For instance, if Tata Nano, with its flimsy build quality, comes up with ABS in its next update (they might, given that they are first in lowest priced car first, then an automatic) . Doesn't such thing lead to a false sense of safety?
When the weak by structure, doesn't these "safety features" turn into a mere marketing gimmick, and only will promote the proliferation of unsafe cars?
This is a good point. ABS, Hill Assist, ESC are not dependent on the build so it will be welcome in any car.

Airbags have 2 important assumptions
  • The car is structurally sound
  • The occupants wear seat belts.

Overall the build quality seems to be reducing in the name of cost cutting. As the recent NCAAP crash results pointed out. Airbags would have been irrelevant in the Datsun Go. So while it is defintely appreciable that manufacturers are providing 6 airbags, I sincerely hope that the build quality needed for effective airbags is maintained.

The other point is seat belts. In India, I would say 99% of people in the back seat are not belted. So in such a scenario I assume side/curtain airbags can do more harm than good.

In Kerala, the previous transport commissioner-Rishiraj Singh, brought in a rule that rear passengers should wear seat belts. It was shot down by the government itself.
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Old 14th August 2015, 13:24   #19
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
Even though the Titanium (O) in not available in AT, the AT Titanium has 6 Air bags and ABS from the higher version.

Rahul
As per the Ford specs, the 1.5L Petrol AT doesn't have Side & Curtain Airbags.
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Old 14th August 2015, 13:26   #20
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

It's a surprise that S-Cross is not in the list.

We thought that with the launch of "Premium Crossover" and "NEXA" dealership, it would be game on as Maruti has done it in the past. e.g- Swift with ABS in 2005.
However this was a very poor start to much hyped launch.

The think tanks at Maruti need to act fast before "NEXA" is history.

Last edited by Wanderers : 14th August 2015 at 13:29.
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Old 14th August 2015, 13:39   #21
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

Great thread

I think government should bring the law as soon as possible for the saftey. And make airbags (minimum 2 assuming maximum accident deaths happens on frontal collission, 6 more welcome) and ABS a must have accessory for all the cars and crash testing as a mandatory measure before release of any cars.

Also I feel manufacturers should take proactive steps and make Saftey a standard features of their all cars. And they can give us many others add ons as options. Like Music system, Touch Screen navigation, Automatic lights / Climate controls to name a few. That way they can sell the cars at different price points without compromising saftey

Asish.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:07   #22
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
My respect for Ford has gone up tremendously because the Figo Aspire now becomes the least expensive car to get 6 airbags by replacing another Ford (the EcoSport) that held this wonderful safety honour till now!
The first manufacturer who dared to offer six airbags to people, below the 10L price bracket was Hyundai and not Ford! Ford took more than 5 years to provide what Hyundai offered with their i20. Going gaga over one manufacturer is OK, but credit should be given where it's due.
No wonder Hyundai removed that model from their Indian i20 lineup.

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Originally Posted by wilful View Post
My respect for Ford & Hyundai goes up a notch further. I think the earler model of i20 had 6 airbags on the top version. Pity they decided to water it down later.
Happy to see at least some people remember this.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:13   #23
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Great thread.

Just wanted to add a little different perspective since I'm from the 'pre-worshipped' school of thought.

For 15 lakhs, you can also buy luxury cars with a 5-star level of safety. Think like-new Skoda Superb & VW Passat. You could also get a BMW 3-Series or Mercedes C-Class with <30,000 kms on the clock, an Audi A4 or a BMW X1.

No matter what your budget, you can always buy a safer pre-worshipped car over a brand-new one. On a 4 - 5 lakh budget, I can get a previous-gen i20 Facelift with 6 airbags. For 3.5 lakhs, I can get a Swift ZXi with dual airbags & ABS instead of a flimsy Alto K10.

Follow our used car checklist to the T and you should be safe. Ask me, I'm already a happy owner of my 5th pre-worshipped ride .
That's cool ain't it? Since about a month ago, I am in the market to change my current ride, and my requirements are :
1. Diesel engine
2. Full safety features

So as i started searching and I found many models that fit the bill (used cars, but other than the German trio, Porche, and the Swedish one)

1. Skoda Laura (L&K)
2. Skoda Superb (The diesel is available only with DSG though, rest are petrols)
3. XUV 500 W8
4. Nissan X trail ( SLX )
5. Chevrolet Captiva ( 2012 onwards)
6. Eco Sport Titanium Option
7. Skoda Octavia ( L&K)
8. Renault Koleos
9. Mitsubishi Montero
10. Hyundai Elantra
11. Hyundai Verna (Fluidic) SXO
12. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo (If you can find one)
13. Toyota Camry.
14. Volkswagen Touareg
15. Volkswagen Jetta
16. Volkswagen Passat
17. Volkswagen Phaeton
18. Skoda Yeti.
19. Toyota Prado

I don't know if there are more models ( Cruze, Fluence, Fortuner and Rexton missed out as they had only 4 ones) and you don't find any Jaguar , land rover less than 25 - 30 Lakhs !, leave alone one for <15 L)

Still toying between an used, well maintained top spec diesel car or go in for a new Aspire/Ecosport or a Verna [ Creta is beyond me :-( ]
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:15   #24
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by Wanderers View Post
It's a surprise that S-Cross is not in the list.
The Nexa sales executive I interacted informed me that, air bags in the rear seats are not necessary, as there is a lot of gap between front seat and back seat!
According to Mr.R.C.Bhargava of Maruti Suzuki, people will not buy cars if they increase price to push such safety technologies due to a "commercial angle". But I am yet to understand in a premium vehicle what is that commercial angle.
It will take a long time for any of Maruti Suzuki's cars to be fully loaded with safety features.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:15   #25
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

On a different thought and a little OT, since the government has put in place so many tax sops to keep the pollution under check like engine capacity under 1.3L & car size less than 4 meter, they can probably extend the same sops to cars with all safety features.

With these sops, even our orthodox Maruti, living 10 years behind the current norms as far as safety features are concerned, will start bringing in safety features to gain the tax sops. Then maybe we can see Maruti cars with proper crumple zones and structural strength.

Such a move can be very very productive.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:17   #26
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
How much all these mean when there is no structural rigidity in the car?
A very good point. This makes me raise a very basic question - As a customer, can I figure out via physical examination if the car is sound from structural integrity perspective. Does it have Crumple Zones, Side Impact Protection and Strong occupant compartment? If not, how do we determine this aspect unless revealed or advertised by manufacturer? Can technical people figure this out and post as part of review?
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:22   #27
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

Glad to see Ford doing this. But basically why don't the insurance companies start charging premium on the basis of features rather than just the IDV? I know some companies reduce premium if you have anti-theft device installed, but couldn't they decide the premiums based on crash tests and no of airbags? There is a column in insurance about the Electrical accessories, why not add number of airbags column too ?
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:30   #28
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
The first manufacturer who dared to offer six airbags to people, below the 10L price bracket was Hyundai and not Ford! Ford took more than 5 years to provide what Hyundai offered with their i20. Going gaga over one manufacturer is OK, but credit should be given where it's due.
No wonder Hyundai removed that model from their Indian i20 lineup.
True that. But the manufacturers who provided 2 Airbags standard didn't have 6 Airbags variant. And those that had a 6 Airbags on top variant didn't have 2 Airbags standard in the base variant.
So, Ford has a beautiful double edged sword here. You can pick any variant and you'll get adequate safety. Or pick the top variant and get supreme safety.

It's remarkable to be able to get a sedan with two airbags under 500,000 ex Delhi.

Thankfully, it doesn't happen to be the tin can Celerio is at that price point.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:47   #29
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
[u][b]Thankfully, we have some manufacturers who're beginning to get rid of this attitude, and are now offering safety features as standard even on the base variants.

While the availability of 6 airbags becomes more common as one crosses the 1.5 million rupee mark (ex-showroom, Chennai), it's really sad to see only 11 variants among 6 vehicles from just 4 manufacturers offering front + side + curtain airbags within the 15 lacs mark.

My respect for Ford has gone up tremendously because the Figo Aspire now becomes the least expensive car to get 6 airbags by replacing another Ford (the EcoSport) that held this wonderful safety honour till now!

If Ford can get the new Figo hatchback to replace the Figo Aspire as the least expensive car with 6 airbags yet again, then it would mean that Ford becomes the default manufacturer of choice for those who want the superb surround safety offered by half-a-dozen airbags in an affordable car!

Bring out the [b]new Figo hatchback with 6 airbags
Super thread RSR
You missed out the Aria Pride Variant which does offer 6 Airbags, ESP, TC, & AWD. It is below 15L Ex Showroom - was when I bought it at least. Would be good to get a TATA in the List.

My last three purchases have had 6 Airbags. - Laura L&K DSG AT, Aria Pride & EcoSport AT, and also had some thing similar to ESP, EBD, TC etc. Almost have been taking this stuff for granted, your thread just made me realize that the next car will be hard to find if I make this an essential requirement. Kudos to Ford for sure.
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Old 14th August 2015, 14:50   #30
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Default Re: Sub-15 lakh cars with 6 Airbags in India

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
On a different thought and a little OT, since the government has put in place so many tax sops to keep the pollution under check like engine capacity under 1.3L & car size less than 4 meter, they can probably extend the same sops to cars with all safety features.

With these sops, even our orthodox Maruti, living 10 years behind the current norms as far as safety features are concerned, will start bringing in safety features to gain the tax sops. Then maybe we can see Maruti cars with proper crumple zones and structural strength.

Such a move can be very very productive.
Exactly my thought. Even OT, I guess you have a point there. Govt reduces tax for cars less than 4m and 1.5L engine, sub 4m cars rained in the market.

So if Govt decides create a rule to reduce the tax for all cars or add a section in the existing rule (for sub 4m and 1.5L) to accomodate Air bags, ABS and Crash test results as mandatory to get that rebate, I guess Manufacturers will follow. They might not think that they are loosing anything but gaining tax rebate buy adding features . WIN-WIN for all
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