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Old 20th August 2015, 19:40   #46
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

A car that passes crash ratings does not guarantee you are going to be alive. They are not solving the cause of the accidents.

These funny rules are not going to prevent accidents and deaths.

What they are saying is that it is ok to get into an accident, but lives should be saved. They are not trying to prevent an accident that happen from reckless driving and unplanned infrastructure. What about the pedestrian? what about the 2 wheeler?

You can be in a safest car, there are so many other ways to die on Indian roads. People dont die because car is bad, people die because they are reckless!!

Last edited by aerohit : 20th August 2015 at 19:42.
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Old 20th August 2015, 19:55   #47
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

A very good step! Whether it gets struck down in a higher court or not, this should be a start. Picking the Global NCAP as benchmark is the right way to go. Those people put in effort, time & scientific procedure to come up with those tests. Isn't India part of the world? If it thinks it is, those tests should be conducted in its actual form here than cook up "Indianised" hackjob, which ofcourse would be a watered down version. There's no point anymore in thinking i read only those books written by me with my own pen even if it's abysmal. Learn from GNCAP, & put in any improvements as per local needs. Stop reinventing the wheel.

The only gripe with this court order is its exclusion of other vehicles. Pretty much any ride made in India for India are moving caskets. Just don't sell them here if they can't sell it in the civilized world.
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Old 20th August 2015, 19:58   #48
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
You can be in a safest car, there are so many other ways to die on Indian roads. People dont die because car is bad, people die because they are reckless!!
Exactly, couldn't agree more with you. Definitely it is imperative to have safe cars on roads but that alone won't help in curbing down accident rates. You have aptly remarked that there are numerous other reasons due to which fatalities occur on Indian roads.

Even if we closely analyse the reasons of fatalities in car accidents, we will find that in most of the cases the occupants were not following the very basic and most effective safety norm i.e they were not wearing seat belts. Therefore no matter how safe the car is, the chances of getting killed in a collision are very high if seat belts are ignored. Ignoring the traffic rules is another nasty habit which result in mishaps.
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Old 20th August 2015, 20:14   #49
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
A car that passes crash ratings does not guarantee you are going to be alive. They are not solving the cause of the accidents.

These funny rules are not going to prevent accidents and deaths.

What they are saying is that it is ok to get into an accident, but lives should be saved. They are not trying to prevent an accident that happen from reckless driving and unplanned infrastructure. What about the pedestrian? what about the 2 wheeler?

You can be in a safest car, there are so many other ways to die on Indian roads. People dont die because car is bad, people die because they are reckless!!
By your convoluted logic, there should be no crash tests on vehicles anywhere in the world.

Have you really read the judgement? This is an extremely well reasoned judgement where they are only saying that vehicles which have been crash tested and passed the tests and emission norms should be sold. Why would you object to something so straightforward?

Even though a safer vehicle would also not guarantee passenger safety, still, Would you rather have your loved ones in a structurally unsafe vehicle or a vehicle which has been proven to be safe in a simulated crash test???

Also, pray please tell me where has anyone said that its ok to be in an accident? You're fabricating absurd statements there mate.

Last edited by Lalvaz : 20th August 2015 at 20:16.
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Old 20th August 2015, 20:18   #50
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

This decision is unfair IMO.

Ford Fiesta, for example, has a strong monocoque but is under 1500 kg. There could be similar examples.
Evaluating cars with just body weight is completely non-scientific and rather anarchic method. There are many videos available on youtube which the court should reason with.

Rather than taking on arduous-yet-necessary steps to have stringent and contemporary test facilities, just pass a law which is much easier.

Its true that we Indians are dished out poor version of European products where quality is obviously compromised and safety necessities like ABS ( atleast ? ) are offered only in super expensive variants. Why not make it standard, the industry is aware that ABS is not that expensive technology and with more volumes, the costs could literally be lower than the discounts and exchange bonuses. I am not trying to imply that manufacturers should not have their margins, but they should offer what they offer in EU ( they do export to EU ).

But simply banning sales of vehicles, that too on basis of weight, is a worthless decision. Some ability to understand scientific advancement must be viewed by our legal system.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 20th August 2015 at 20:24.
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Old 20th August 2015, 20:21   #51
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You can have 5 star ratings, wear seat belts, have air bags, ebd, traction control and still die. Some scenarios unique to India-
  • You are over speeding and run into a stationary truck carrying iron rods beyond permissible limit
  • A bus hits you from behind killing rear seat occupants
  • An overloaded truck overturns and crushes your car - flat like papad
  • You get t-boned by someone jumping signal at an intersection, instant death
  • Head on collision by someone driving on wrong side of the road
  • You were shot at in a road rage
  • You were driving safely but died because of someone else fault
  • List goes on....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
By your convoluted logic, there should be no crash tests on vehicles anywhere in the world.

Have you really read the judgement? This is an extremely well reasoned judgement where they are only saying that vehicles which have been crash tested and passed the tests and emission norms should be sold. Why would you object to something so straightforward?
In a country where free Wi-Fi is more important than a clean Toilet, I can understand why your priorities may not be in order.

I believe that the primary cause of death is not poor crash rating. Its the recklessness and lawlessness. Very straightforward.

You dont start driving without training, without law and order, without enforcement, without speed limits, without honking, without traffic signals. Yes, crash test ratings are important but it should be low priority when your basics are not right!

Last edited by ampere : 20th August 2015 at 20:52. Reason: Back to back posts
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Old 20th August 2015, 20:40   #52
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Well well just now arrived home from office to get this news. So practically any vehicle under 1500 kg without safety features and crashworthy features are banned which makes the situation quite interesting. The roads of Assam especially in my hometown Guwahati are narrow and pathetic. There is no scope of widening the roads which date from the British Raj era. However the local administration had no qualms about the ever increasing number of vehicles on these narrow roads which has caused huge congestion in the city. Just 10-15 years ago, the situation was so pleasant but now almost every family has 2 or 3 cars , one for each member. More ridiculous is the fact that how govt. is permitting registration of vehicles when owners do not have any parking facility. Corruption and nepotism are the orders of the day in virtually every State Govt. department not excluding the famed Transport Department. I went to the DTO office yesterday to get the RC smart card and for affixing High security number plates for my new Swift and I could find people getting driving licenses simply by paying 4k-5k through middlemen. If these so called drivers get the license of committing mass murders on the streets on their tin can cars, then I feel very sorry for the Govt. and the people.

In this context I recall these interesting news I came across recently in newspapers, internet, and social media:

1. Deputy Commissionerate of Kamrup Metro (the district where Guwahati and Dispur are located) and the Guwahati Metropolitan Development Authority are planning to make a law which makes it illegal for a single person in Guwahati to have more than 1 car registration in his name and also not to allow any single family in Guwahati to have more than one car without proper parking.

2.Local Administration of Shimla, H.P and Gangtok, Sikkim have implemented rules which make it mandatory for a prospective car buyer to have compulsory car parking facility.

3.One mayor of a major metropolitan city(I can't recall maybe Los Angeles,USA) recently remarked that the development of a metro city can be judged from the efficiency and excellence of its rapid public transportation system. This factor can't be denied since major world metros be it in Europe, Americas, South East Asia and Australia have superior rapid public transportation systems.

The crash worthiness of Indian cars coupled with incompetent drivers behind the coffins on wheels and very lax road laws of administration are responsible for most of the deadly accidents which claim so many innocent lives in our country.

May good sense prevail upon all and may all the people buy only crash worthy vehicles and may our incompetent governments provide us with competent public transportation systems.
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Old 20th August 2015, 21:08   #53
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

I feel that banning unsafe cars is not a good idea. They should instead publish the safety ratings and make it mandatory for manufacturers to show these ratings in the brochure or advertisements. Buying an unsafe car should be left to the buyers, where as ABS and TC should be made mandatory.
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Old 20th August 2015, 22:05   #54
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Promoting safety in cars will always be appreciated. However, is banning registration a good step ? the manufacturers have already produced the cars, they'll be simply redirected to other states if the ban continues. Two wheelers do not offer any safety equipment , neither do any public transport facilities, should they be banned too?. Also ,such a ban should come along with extremely stringent traffic rules. I believe adding safety equipment mandatory for all manufacturers will be a better idea.

Last edited by aktarcar : 20th August 2015 at 22:08.
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Old 20th August 2015, 22:18   #55
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

The SIAM will appeal in the Supreme Court, and this order will be quashed, with an admonition for the learned High Court judges thrown in. Then it will be back to business. That will be all.
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Old 20th August 2015, 22:20   #56
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Has the court directed to ban the new upcoming batches of these cars ? What will happen to those who currently own these cars ? Need more clarity.
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Old 20th August 2015, 22:24   #57
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

The discussions on this thread are getting interesting with every post, which only speaks volumes about the fact that how responsible and safety conscious the Team BHPians are.

The discussion so far can be summed up as follows:

1. With traffic conditions getting dynamic, having vehicles with ultra safety standards is an absolute necessity. Its high time that all the important safety features such as ABS, EBS, Air Bags etc are provided as standard fitment in all cars irrespective of the segment.

2. No matter how much safer the vehicle is, in the end the safety of the passengers depend upon their personal endeavour and the will to be safe. Hence wearing seat belts at all times and strict adherence to traffic rules is imperative.

3. Instead of only concentrating on the structural aspects of passenger cars, the government should also look into the other aspects which compromise safety. Faulty road engineering is one such area which contributes a hell lot towards road accidents. Apart from this the roadworthiness of heavy commercial vehicles is always under cloud, which makes the other road users vulnerable.

Road safety is one such aspect which has tremendous and continuous scope for improvement. Merely banning the cars which don't meet safety standards won't do, instead the government should urgently bring in a legislation (which seems doubtful in the current scenario owing to absolute logjam in the parliament ) wherein it is made mandatory for all the automobile manufacturers to incorporate highest levels of safety features in their vehicles.
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Old 20th August 2015, 23:11   #58
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

High time that someone starts asking questions about vehicular safety norms in this country! Honourable High Court of Gauhati has taken a bold step towards this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
...based on the fact that EURO NCAP conducted 'voluntary' tests on certain vehicles sold in India which many failed.

Why does the High Court act upon the results of an unsolicited test conducted in another country? Why does it not direct the government to speed up the process of establishing a proper testing regime in the country?
All that the judgement is asking is: why are cars being sold without undergoing frontal impact test? How can it be allowed by the government? It also says that the government has to make laws concerning the same. It cannot get away with standing instructions. Until the above happens, it is asking the government not to permit sale of any small car / quadricycle / commercial vehicle.

Quote:
A direction from the Hon HC will be binding on the government to follow up and act upon..
Exactly what they have done. Asking the government to ensure cars which do not meet "norms" are not sold until "norms" are legally drafted and they are crash tested. I didn't see any specific reference to Swift, i10, Alto or other cars.

Although I am still confused about why they are talking specifically about the quadricycle aspect. Is it a question of classification under two of the categories mentioned?

Also what went over my head was the difference between a "law" and "standing instruction". Aren't ARAI regulations equal to "laws" ? Any other examples of such conundrums?
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Old 21st August 2015, 00:09   #59
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

Hilarious! Cars are getting banned for safety features and weight! That also in Assam, where people don't wear seatbelt at all, apart from Guwahati city, where police may fine. In other towns, if you wear even police will look at you like seeing an alien. Lots of vehicles have seat belt warning, to stop the sound people just jam the belt knuckle. What is the point of having safety features if nobody uses it? Rather than banning they should ensure everyone is following safety rules.
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Old 21st August 2015, 00:17   #60
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

While I agree that the judgement has a lot of good intention and is a step in the right direction, I also have some serious concerns.
  • How did the court arrive at the figure of <1500 kgs to ban cars for the lack of safety? Does that mean the court opines that vehicles >1500 kgs are safe??
  • Since there is no facility to crash test cars in India, how will the court / Central govt adjudge which car is safe and which is not??
  • Is India going to outsource the crash testing to Europe or Australia to adjudge the safety of our cars??
  • Is it practical to send each and every car model manufactured in India to Europe to crash test and get a rating??
  • Even if Euro NCAP facility is used, will the testing criteria be changed to suit Indian road conditions and speed limits??
I am sure the manufacturers will soon approach the Supreme Court and reverse the judgement. Especially when crash test is not mandated by law and there is no law-breaking happening, it will be very tough for the PIL to stand ground. Moreover, all the vehicles on road in India have met the mediocre Indian rules

IMO, what is needed is not banning cars which meets all regulated requirements. The need of the hour is updated regulations in line with international standards which will force the manufacturers to follow suit. In tandem with that, the government should also take steps to
  • Punish traffic rule breakers with HEAVY fines - similar to US and European countries
  • Make sure roads have a bare minimum ridable quality
  • Make sure roads are sufficiently lighted and have all markings well and clear
  • Regulate crossings and junctions on 4 and 6 lane highways
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