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Old 21st August 2015, 00:49   #61
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by hridayjyoti View Post
Hilarious! Cars are getting banned for safety features and weight! That also in Assam, where people don't wear seatbelt at all, apart from Guwahati city, where police may fine. In other towns, if you wear even police will look at you like seeing an alien. Lots of vehicles have seat belt warning, to stop the sound people just jam the belt knuckle. What is the point of having safety features if nobody uses it? Rather than banning they should ensure everyone is following safety rules.
LOL, I can understand your point and have myself had to force and educate my parents to get used to seatbelts. Proper road safety training is something that is badly missing to most of the people who drive in our Indian roads. Probably there should be stronger steps taken to educate people about road safety. [We also can do our bit by talking and educating people about road safety and different safety measures to be taken before hitting the road] If I can then I would make road safety a part of the school/college curriculum. Without that course's successful completion, no one should be allowed to have a license. If someone is uneducated or part of the older system and still needs a license, then he/she has to go thru a compulsory course on road safety. May be few more stringent measures needs to be taken. But will it happen soon? I only can pray that it happens in another couple of decades.
And ofcourse we need safer cars too. To me this particular order is a step in the right direction and I hope that higher court will upheld this verdict. We definitely need stricter norms for our cars here.
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Old 21st August 2015, 00:54   #62
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

I can see people here arguing that the basis of verdict aren't scientific, the government instead should work on making the roads safer, and what not. And I do agree with some of if not all of the reason/arguments people have given against the verdict.

However, IMO isn't it a step we all have been waiting for - towards safer and better cars. The basis may be wrong but see the judiciary's intent behind, the result it wants to achieve is going to benefit every prospect buyer. It is going to save lives.

And those who argue that India has its own ARAI and other regulatory bodies, I would say we don't have crash facilities. So referring to a reputed international body's findings isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, it is bad on part of manufacturers who have access to NCAP's test results and at the same time have resources to build better international spec cars but they do not do so intentionally. They take undue advantage of existing state of motor vehicle safety laws and regulations to build cars that offer no safety.

If some one is making an effort let us not discourage them. India as a nation has a long way to go and IMO we have started very late but I am happy that at least we started.

Last edited by jeepster_chd : 21st August 2015 at 00:58.
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Old 21st August 2015, 01:08   #63
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Default Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

What this does is create awareness amongst the public. I doubt it will ever mature in to anything decisive, but for sure such incidents make people think. No offence, but would have been great if such a move came from one of the bigger States which would have probably created more impact and awareness.

Last edited by motorworks : 21st August 2015 at 01:10.
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Old 21st August 2015, 08:32   #64
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
You're wrong, Judiciary can create new laws. Quoting from:
http://www.britannica.com/topic/court-law

"Judicial lawmaking
All courts apply preexisting rules (statutes) formulated by legislative bodies, though the procedures vary greatly between common-law and civil-law countries. In applying these rules, however, courts must also interpret them, typically transforming the rules from generalities to specifics and sometimes filling gaps to cover situations never addressed by lawmakers when the legislation was first drafted. As courts decide disputes in individual cases, they create an important by-product beyond peaceful settlements—that is, they develop rules for deciding future cases. The judicial decisions embodying these interpretations then become controlling for future cases, sometimes to the extent that they virtually supplant the legislative enactments themselves. In common-law systems, such decisions are called precedents, and they are rules and policies with just as much authority as a law passed by a legislature. Thus, law is made not only by legislatures but also by the courts."

By the way, is'nt this a good judgement, one that ensures transparency and higher standards for consumer safety and rights. Why are so many people upset about this order?
Sorry you are wrong here. Please don't interpret how Indian judiciary works based on some US/UK based articles.
Please refer to Justice Katju's comments in the attached article.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/judic...-on-con-528298

And I do have a problem with courts making up new laws on the fly. On what basis did Assam high court decide so and so car is unsafe? Did they develop a yardstick for the same? Were all vehicles sold in Assam subject to this test? Were any measured parameters shared before hand to vehicle makers? Is Assam state a part of Indian union or a separate country to have its own laws?
Sorry this is a simple case of judicial over reach with that local judge trying to play god!!
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Old 21st August 2015, 08:45   #65
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

To reduce accidents and fatalities thereof, has to be a 3 point program.
  • Compel the manufacturers to produce structurally sturdy cars via legislation and Court rulings.
  • Make the buyers aware of the importance of buying cars with safety features like ABS, Airbags, etc, and safe driving habits like putting on seat belts, driving within prescribed speed limits, and so on.
  • Punish the defaulters of law with non financial penalties. A driver found violating a traffic signal, driving a 9 lac rupee car, cannot be left by imposing financial penalty of Rs 500/-
I find it difficult to understand as to why the Order of the Assam High Court is criticized. The said Order is one of the three steps required to achieve the target of reducing accident cases in the country. It should be welcomed, while the efforts on the other two objectives should be carried on constantly.
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Old 21st August 2015, 09:03   #66
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

I get shivers down my spine when I read the news. I may be skeptical but with China sniffing the back at Arunachal Pradesh, Assam's revolt (in exaggerated term, of course) against the Central government is not a good sign. It is the location of state which concerns me.
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Old 21st August 2015, 09:42   #67
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Default Re: Assam bans sale & registration of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
This is great move, should have been applied all over India long ago, but I don't get logic of excluding 'SUV' from the ban. Most of the popular Indian SUVs are much bigger disaster than many of the failed cars. And what about the killer trucks and buses which have platform height of more than car roofs?
Going down that road - please let me know what cars or SUVs or trucks or whatever other vehicle CAN be sold if Euro NCAP norms become mandatory.

VW, Fiat, some but not all Fords - there's a very minimal list.
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Old 21st August 2015, 09:53   #68
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by jeepster_chd View Post
I can see people here arguing that the basis of verdict aren't scientific, the government instead should work on making the roads safer, and what not. And I do agree with some of if not all of the reason/arguments people have given against the verdict.

However, IMO isn't it a step we all have been waiting for - towards safer and better cars. The basis may be wrong but see the judiciary's intent behind, the result it wants to achieve is going to benefit every prospect buyer. It is going to save lives.

And those who argue that India has its own ARAI and other regulatory bodies, I would say we don't have crash facilities. So referring to a reputed international body's findings isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, it is bad on part of manufacturers who have access to NCAP's test results and at the same time have resources to build better international spec cars but they do not do so intentionally. They take undue advantage of existing state of motor vehicle safety laws and regulations to build cars that offer no safety.

If some one is making an effort let us not discourage them. India as a nation has a long way to go and IMO we have started very late but I am happy that at least we started.
I fully agree with you but is India the same as it was 20 yrs before. Time changes and as time changes we would also change. When did we start seeing ABS in vehicles. Did any court of law or any govt press the manufacturers for this? No way, so all manufacturers know what to do in which economy. First let our economy improve and then lets start demanding. In my opinion we wont require to demand, it would automatically come in.
I am fully against the decision court has taken here and more over something smelly maybe there underlying this decision, i believe.
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Old 21st August 2015, 10:15   #69
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by kaushik_s View Post
Have you guys not read the judgement in it's actual form and still talking about "lists" of cars? There is no list with particular names but it's a stay order on any sale or release of cars without going thru crash tests.
EDIT: For pete's sake, please read the actual judgement, I'm posting it here again http://ghconline.gov.in/General/Noti...26-06-2015.pdf
+1. Firstly this news (even this thread title) is grossly misleading. Below is an extract of the final page from the order (from the link posted by kaushik_s above)

Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars-courtorder.jpg

All I see here is that the Assam High Court has passed an order 'directing' the Central government not to allow sale of vehicles under 1500 kg that does not meet safety norms.
  • I don't see anything mentioned in the order about a ban in Assam
  • There is no mention of any vehicle. So the general list of vehicles has been added by the media and is inaccurate information.
  • This is an order 'directing' the central government. Is the central government bound by a directive from a state high court? Even if it is, I do not think they will straight away need to go enforce the directive.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 21st August 2015 at 10:19.
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Old 21st August 2015, 10:50   #70
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by ram_hyundai View Post
When did we start seeing ABS in vehicles. Did any court of law or any govt press the manufacturers for this? No way, so all manufacturers know what to do in which economy.
Manufacturers offer ABS and airbags in only top end models as if these are not safety features but luxuries. It was only after government said that they are going to make ABS and driver airbag mandatory across all cars, that a couple of manufacturers took notice (not all) and introduced these basic safety features in their base models as well.
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Old 21st August 2015, 11:04   #71
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by jeepster_chd View Post
Manufacturers offer ABS and airbags in only top end models as if these are not safety features but luxuries. It was only after government said that they are going to make ABS and driver airbag mandatory across all cars, that a couple of manufacturers took notice (not all) and introduced these basic safety features in their base models as well.
You are referring to a recent event, But i have been seeing ABS vehicles from 2002 on wards. General improvements are required as and when the economy of a nation improves. That doesn't mean that such necessities like a car cannot be afforded by a common man due to the inclusion of features like ABS etc. If you don't feel that it is not safe enough don't buy. Opt for a higher variant. No nation has stopped selling cigarettes even though every one knows its injurious to health. Take it or leave it.
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Old 21st August 2015, 11:05   #72
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

I am really surprised at this reaction on t-bhp. For once, the judiciary has done something keeping in mind the interest of society at large.

Manufacturers are not concerned about consumer well-being, they are concerned about their bottomline. So, its good to have someone having the consumers' back and concerned about the common good.

And yeah, I am glad at least some parts of India are mature enough to get their priorities straight. No wonder they don't identify with the rest of the country.
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Old 21st August 2015, 11:25   #73
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

I like that the judiciary took some measures, but I don't approve of them stretching/tearing the envelope.

That being said, I am appalled, have always been appalled by car makers, Indian or otherwise. There is a set of minimum, strict and specific norms in developed nations as to maintaining some standards which will ensure that a human being survives in case of a collision.
A Honda/Chevy/etc will sell cars meeting these norms in these nations, ensuring that a person survives. However, when they come to a developing nation, which is accepting and becoming capable of buying their cars en masse, they will not advise the government(them listening is another story) to maintain a certain standard which they, as a manufacturer, are already aware of? Is a 50kph collision in Europe different from the same in India? Shameless.

Rather, they will advise them to maintain a minimum set of conditions so as to be able to sell the maximum at the minimum.And the governing body will accept that. I cannot have them plead ignorance, that they don't know any better. If they are relying on inputs rather than research, they frankly don't deserve a rupee of whatever of what they make.
ARAI, government, manufacturers, they are ALL collectively responsible for selling a car that will not keep me safe in an accident, but rather will ensure that I die. There's so many of us, aint it?
No seatbelts, no Airbags, no abs.
"Sir, chrome grill. new feature sir."



I hope this causes some of these bodies to get off their collective things and think about the people for once. Otherwise they're doing no better than the East India Co. The resource being cash.
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Old 21st August 2015, 11:47   #74
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by ashwin489 View Post
I am really surprised at this reaction on t-bhp. For once, the judiciary has done something keeping in mind the interest of society at large.

Manufacturers are not concerned about consumer well-being, they are concerned about their bottomline. So, its good to have someone having the consumers' back and concerned about the common good.

And yeah, I am glad at least some parts of India are mature enough to get their priorities straight. No wonder they don't identify with the rest of the country.

I disagree sir!! I am saddened by reactions like these. There is a reason why we have our government make laws and rules. Every law needs to be vetted by both houses of the parliament which has elected representatives of the people who vote for or against a proposed law keeping in mind the interests of the people who have voted them into their seats. A judge is appointed by the government, he or she has no interest in the people or their wishes per se. If judges and the court continue to interfere in the democratic process and implement ad hoc rules, there might be a day we all will be asked to stay indoors to prevent any crimes!!

And it is easy to blame the manufacturers for lack of safety features. Ask yourself, are you willing to pay a lac more per any model for all safety bells and whistles? There is a reason why manufacturers are making models with bling bling lights, alloy wheels and fancy gizmos instead of abs/ebd or airbags, the gizmos sell.

Last edited by apachelongbow : 21st August 2015 at 11:48.
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Old 21st August 2015, 11:53   #75
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Default Re: Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars

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Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
+1. Firstly this news (even this thread title) is grossly misleading. Below is an extract of the final page from the order (from the link posted by kaushik_s above)
The title has been edited for more clarity. Secondly, cross-posting this image uploaded by soulturbo which clearly indicates the DTOs (District Transport Officers) of Assam that the dealers aren't permitted to sell these vehicles which haven't cleared the requisite crash and emission test norms.

Assam bans sale of Alto, Swift, i10, Eon, Jazz and several other small cars-dto.jpg

please find the same on this link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3783050 (Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars)

Also, please read the date of the news that kaushik_s has posted and please see the date on the Team-BHP Source article. We also have another Team-BHP news article dated on 30/06/2015 for your further reference. Hope that clears things out

Last edited by S2!!! : 21st August 2015 at 11:57.
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