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Old 24th August 2015, 19:37   #16
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by sampat.sahoo View Post
For the impatient lot, who care less to visit the links, I have summed up the rabbits that maruti has pulled out of its hat:

15 new features including a music system with speakers, reverse parking sensors, designer seat covers, embroidered cushions, Onam graphics and decal, etc. On the outside, the Onam Edition gets unique body graphics to set it apart from the standard car. Other add-ons include mud-flaps and window visors. Inside, the limited-run Alto 800 gets the inclusion of features such as reverse parking sensors, a music system, new dual-tone seat covers and steering cover, door sill guards, embroidered cushions, and ambience light. Also included in this special edition is a 'race boat designí tissue box. Interested customers can avail these additional features by paying a nominal amount of Rs. 17,350 over the ex-showroom price of the selected variant.

Wonít the Race Boat Design tissue box inspire the driver to drive faster and make the car unsafe? Why couldnít the manufacturer offer a model with some stiffened body shell by charging a premium? I am not sure how the logistics would work out for that but I am sure that wasting precious time on coming up with new stickers will never solve the safety problem. The step motherly treatment by Indian Manufacturers has already been discussed on multiple forums. No point in discussing about them.

But the makers of stickers should know that: We also deserve to survive a crash and live another day to write about it on TeamBHP.
And let's compare on how much Maruti sells compared to VW? Doesn't it answer the obvious? You may call it all kinds of names but people do go and buy a Maruti be it paper boat or Haldiram made, and no one seems to care about the Polo relatively.
In a nation where a majority of drivers don't belt up, never heard of rear seat belt in spite of being available free on all cars, why will any smart business mind give out safety features just like that? Believe me the Onam edition in a month will outsell all Polos sold in a year.
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Old 24th August 2015, 20:38   #17
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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And let's compare on how much Maruti sells compared to VW? Doesn't it answer the obvious? You may call it all kinds of names but people do go and buy a Maruti be it paper boat or Haldiram made, and no one seems to care about the Polo relatively.
In a nation where a majority of drivers don't belt up, never heard of rear seat belt in spite of being available free on all cars, why will any smart business mind give out safety features just like that? Believe me the Onam edition in a month will outsell all Polos sold in a year.
I know you are not really defending MS here, but this is how I view it: Any company with an iota of social responsibility will try to do its bit for the cause. And if anyone can afford to do it, it is Them. I am seeing some companies not deviating from their core principles even when their sales are abject low, but it is very clear that this company as a whole lacks any values or character. One can argue that they have done nothing wrong, what I feel of them doesn't matter etc. But it is hard for me to have any respect for the company or their products and I see few others feel that way too.
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Old 24th August 2015, 21:06   #18
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
And let's compare on how much Maruti sells compared to VW? Doesn't it answer the obvious? Believe me the Onam edition in a month will outsell all Polos sold in a year.
This is the justification you are providing for Maruti not equipping its cars with safety features? The explanation is brilliant, if they are selling 1 lakh cars a month, then it is best to remove safety features from a car because Indian people won't care.

Going by this logic, Toyota being world's no 1 brand should also start removing safety features from their cars all over the world because the number of cars they sell in a year is equal to years of sales from Suzuki. People in our nation do not wear seat belts so it is best to provide them structurally unsafe cars with zero safety , that is a weird logic.

We as an automobile community should not approve of such facts and definitely not defend them. When VW/Skoda get so much flak over their poor service or reliability then Maruti deserves this bashing for selling zero safety cars, there is no reason to defend them. People may still go and buy 30,000 Alto or 20,000 Swifts but facts will remain facts.

As for comparing Alto sales to Polo, have a look at worldwide sales of VAG and worldwide sales of Suzuki, there is a reason why reputed brands like VW and Toyota immediately equipped their base variants with safety features after Indian crash tests, to save their face worldwide, some thing which Maruti and Suzuki do not have to worry about.

Last edited by coolboy007 : 24th August 2015 at 21:08.
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Old 24th August 2015, 21:37   #19
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
This is the justification you are providing for Maruti not equipping its cars with safety features? The explanation is brilliant, if they are selling 1 lakh cars a month, then it is best to remove safety features from a car because Indian people won't care.

Going by this logic, Toyota being world's no 1 brand should also start removing safety features from their cars all over the world because the number of cars they sell in a year is equal to years of sales from Suzuki. People in our nation do not wear seat belts so it is best to provide them structurally unsafe cars with zero safety , that is a weird logic.

We as an automobile community should not approve of such facts and definitely not defend them. When VW/Skoda get so much flak over their poor service or reliability then Maruti deserves this bashing for selling zero safety cars, there is no reason to defend them. People may still go and buy 30,000 Alto or 20,000 Swifts but facts will remain facts.

As for comparing Alto sales to Polo, have a look at worldwide sales of VAG and worldwide sales of Suzuki, there is a reason why reputed brands like VW and Toyota immediately equipped their base variants with safety features after Indian crash tests, to save their face worldwide, some thing which Maruti and Suzuki do not have to worry about.
You must be kidding if you imagine the products Toyota or vw sell in US or EU are of the same quality as sold in India. Just consider the bare basic Innova or Etios. Anyway I am not defending any car maker. It's that in this forum we are happy to let fly at any manufacturer just like that. If anything needs to change it should be our laws and its enforcement. If we had EU spec laws and implementation here we would stop losing so many people due road fatalities.
Legislation and implementation makes safety not car models or players.

I hope you do realise that the most crash worthy car filled with safety gadgets won't save you if you don't belt up?

If vw or toyota India were so concerned for car safety why they as a part of SIAM are resisting the governments efforts to incorporate a crash testing policy?

Last edited by apachelongbow : 24th August 2015 at 21:40.
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Old 25th August 2015, 12:28   #20
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...



Good post. Maruti, well known for its ludicrous special editions goes one step further!

Regarding the debate about offering safety features, no manufacturer is going to do this purely out of goodwill. A elected government should be looking out for interests of its people and not a business house.

Am not defending anything here, but our anger/frustration at the pathetic state of affairs regarding safety should not be misplaced.
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Old 25th August 2015, 12:39   #21
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
We as an automobile community should not approve of such facts and definitely not defend them. When VW/Skoda get so much flak over their poor service or reliability then Maruti deserves this bashing for selling zero safety cars, there is no reason to defend them.
Why singling out Maruti here? What safety features Hyundai offer in their lower variants? Even in Gi10 "Sportz" variant, find below the "safety" features offered (not offered)! (Source: http://www.cardekho.com/features/Hyu...z-features.htm)
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:01   #22
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Default Maruti’s response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Why singling out Maruti here? What safety features Hyundai offer in their lower
Hyundai has also received criticism about deleting rear discs and proudly displaying 5 star safety sticker on base variants with zero safety but they do offer 6 airbags on top variants.As market leaders, both Maruti and Hyundai need to set an example for others.

Hyundai also has a habit of giving acc and folding mirrors but not even abs in base variants or cars like grand i10 or i20 but since no one cares in our country and people prefer touch screen audio over abs, they do not want to offer it.

Until our thinking changes or rules are made stricter, this sad practice will go on.

Last edited by coolboy007 : 25th August 2015 at 13:02.
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Old 25th August 2015, 14:07   #23
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
Hyundai also has a habit of giving acc and folding mirrors but not even abs in base variants or cars like grand i10 or i20 but since no one cares in our country and people prefer touch screen audio over abs, they do not want to offer it.
In general, the safety awareness is very less in India. We buy cars based on various factors while also considering our budget. For those who want the safety features in their cars, they usually need to go to the top most variant on offer.
Manufacturers are not the people to blame here. They are here to run business and make profit, and increase shareholders wealth. If they are to make money here, they have to play the rules set by the Government. If they give features that are not really wanted by the masses, and also not made mandatory by Government, but they know those features will keep the masses safe, that will result in increase in car prices, thereby reducing profit or sales or both.
Government has made it mandatory to offer many features in our cars, such as the seat belts in front and rear seats, high mounted stop lamps, ORVMs (right side at least), Indicators, Number plate lights, Head light leveller etc. Before these were made mandatory by the Government, they were not mandatory, and the masses didn't complain. Similarly the safety equipment list to be offered on all cars have to updated in line with the times.
Think about it, did the sales of TVS 50 or Bajaj Chetak in the past fell because it didn't have Rear view mirrors? Or did anyone complain about the seat belts in those days, and rejected M800? I am sure, now also, many wouldn't realize the missing seat belts if they travel in those old cars, because they normally do not use it.
So, my view is - Government should make a set of additional safety equipment mandatory in all cars. Companies will follow the instructions and people will get used to them automatically. No need to single out or complain on any manufacturers.
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Old 25th August 2015, 16:53   #24
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

I don't see why this is a problem.
Driving any car, is safer than riding a bike.

Personally safety features are important to me (airbags, ABS, wider, grippy tyres etc) but I don't see why it should be made mandatory when so many bikes ply around.
The problem, ultimately, boils down to cost and prospective owners will have to shell out more dough for their cars.
To me, what's important is that owners are given the option to make an informed choice and to do that I'd personally make it mandatory that cars must explicity issue a warning regarding the lack of the recommended safety features if any in every brochure/advertisement.
It must stand out like the ones in the cigarette packets; well, maybe not so much but every customer must know that some elementary safety features are missing in a particular car.

Making safety features like airbags mandatory and therefore, more expensive, will only increase the no of bikers; well, that's more unsafe.

Last edited by dozer : 25th August 2015 at 16:57.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:30   #25
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

Make a minimum NCAP rating mandatory for all manufacturers to sell cars in India, that's the only way to get things done right here. If you cannot buy a slightly more expensive safer car, use public transport. It's not like buying a car is a fundamental right. Most people don't upgrade from bikes keeping in mind safety anyway. Prestige is usually the number one reason.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:51   #26
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Driving any car, is safer than riding a bike.
Right, isn't it? But why is riding a bike unsafe? The answer is poor infrastructure. In China, bicycles and e-bikes (top speed = 30kmph) run on a separate lane, while the cars, buses run on the main lanes uninterrupted. Bikes that run on petrol is banned altogether in many cities. Will that ever happen in India?
Tata introduced Nano, with the same aim of giving a car to all those who are riding a two wheeler, considering it dangerous on the same logic as yours. Did it succeed? No, only those who already have cars bought it as second car. Why?
In India, two-wheelers with good mileage are considered a boon for quick errands, which cars cannot achieve. All of us have two wheelers, to go around the neighbourhood, while our main transport is still a car.
IMHO, those who wants to ride a two-wheeler, will continue to ride two-wheeler, and those who wants a car, will go for it, no matter what.
There are cars available at all budgets, don't forget used cars market please.
So, I don't think your logic of continuing to offer poorly built cars with less safety equipment holds good. The only reason they are available in market is because government norms allows them.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:53   #27
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

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Originally Posted by sampat.sahoo View Post

And now we have Alto Onam Special

Other add-ons include mud-flaps and window visors. Inside, the limited-run Alto 800 gets the inclusion of features such as reverse parking sensors, a music system, new dual-tone seat covers and steering cover, door sill guards, embroidered cushions, and ambience light. Also included in this special edition is a 'race boat designí tissue box.
As part of the delivery ceremony Onam Sadya (feast) is served ?! Talk about cliched promotions!
The 'edition' per se carries zero recall value at a later date (possibly only ignominy)
Is it that safety features are not glamorous and there is a stigma associated with highlighting those?
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Old 25th August 2015, 19:22   #28
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

Come on fellas, no buyer or group of buyers will ever be able to influence the bean counters at a manufacturer like Maruti or Hyundai or any other manufacturer for that matter. Besides, most car buyers in our beloved nation wont even be aware of the issues that can arise due to lack of safety features, so no one really cares.

We enthusiasts run around, hurling abuses at the manufacturers, shouting that they don't provide safety in their base variants. When was the last time this made an impact on any of them? The only time something made a slight impact was the revelation that the cars sold here are inferior to the cars imported from India, with regards to safety. At-least some manufacturers started offering minimal basic safety features across all the variants, across all segments.

There is no way the buyer can influence any manufacturer to provide minimum basic safety across all their cars. The only way it can happen is through stringent government legislature & laws. Design and release a minimum basic safety standard that is accepted across the Indian subcontinent. Give the manufacturers a few years to design cars around this standard. Then make it compulsory that all L.M.Vs sold after a particular date have to adhere to this safety standard.This is the only way manufacturers will stop selling foolish editions with decals & stickers without any safety.

And, please, let us not get to the whole car-is-safer-than-bike-so-i-dont-care-about-safety debate. We, as enthusiasts, should know better than to promote such ludicrous statements. Safety is a minimum basic requirement. And it starts with manufacturers being forced to provide it.

Safety is not paramount for most, if not all, buyers in India.

And that is the truth. So no manufacturer will provide it, unless they are compelled to do so.

Now, let the brickbats flow! I'm gonna be looking like this by the time you guys are done bashing me

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Last edited by sourav9385 : 25th August 2015 at 19:37.
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Old 25th August 2015, 19:23   #29
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

I don't see a point in the bashing Maruti or any other manufacturer.

It is the responsibility of the buyer to ensure that he/she gets the best product, based on the parameters of importance for that individual. If I remember correct, Indian law too says Buyer Beware!

As a market, when there are people to buy & the product is legal, every product would find a buyer (Alto is finding in lots!). Action should be to create awareness, so people realize the product flaw and not buy (Datsun Go?).

All said, in a nation where majority travel by two wheelers and obsolete vehicles, where ~60% two wheelers roam about with no insurance, where road safety and other enforcements are paltry, where driving tests are joke, where counting accidents against drivers is considered robbing livelihood, where driving reckless is considered "good" driving, calling cars without safety features as threat is ... don't know what to say!
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Old 26th August 2015, 13:42   #30
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Default re: Marutiís response to NCAP Tests: Alto Onam Edition? Nope...

It is an unfortunate state of things - but it is the truth - people are not aware of safety. The NCAP videos did have a good impact on some people I showed it to, and they changed their purchase decisions based on that . But then zero impact on others I showed it to.

It took a lot of years for the west to adopt these safety measures and there was a lot of resistance even back then. The battle is starting now in India. If we enthusiasts give up the battle, there is no hope. So, while I agree with you and I'd not bash you , I'd continue to bash the manufacturers who make tin-cans and laugh all the way to the bank.

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Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Come on fellas, no buyer or group of buyers will ever be able to influence the bean counters at a manufacturer like Maruti or Hyundai or any other manufacturer for that matter. Besides, most car buyers in our beloved nation wont even be aware of the issues that can arise due to lack of safety features, so no one really cares.
...
And that is the truth. So no manufacturer will provide it, unless they are compelled to do so.
[/i]
Now, let the brickbats flow! I'm gonna be looking like this by the time you guys are done bashing me

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