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Old 29th August 2015, 10:28   #1
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Default All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

The government has informed the NGT that it is busy formulating a policy whereby all vehicles in India will have an "expiry date", i.e., an end-of-life date after which they will no longer be eligible to ply on Indian roads.

This is a part of it's detailed reply to the NGT on banning diesel vehicles more than 10 years old, where the government has stressed on the fact that the fitness of the vehicle, NOT it's age, will be the deciding factor in pulling them off the roads.

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The policy will cover passenger cars, two-wheelers and three-wheelers in the beginning, and will subsequently be extended to heavier vehicles in a stepped manner.

The policy will be included as a notification under the Central Motor Vehicles Rules.

The policy is being formulated under the Automotive Industry Standards Committee and will be approved by CMVR -Technical Standard Committee.

The note also claimed that while state governments should decide what concession or benefits would be available to owners who scrap their vehicles, the ministry of road transport and highways was also preparing a scheme for scrapping unfit vehicles.

Arguing that fitness should be the sole criterion for removing or phasing out diesel vehicles, the Centre submitted, "Reports indicate that there are only 7% vehicles over 10 years and their total impact on pollution is 1%. No fruitful purpose will be served by banning over 10 years old vehicles. Government has already agreed that over 15 years transport vehicles be banned."

It said, "The study by IIT, Delhi has also shown that contribution of private vehicles towards PM 2.5 is insignificant."
ET Auto

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Old 29th August 2015, 10:37   #2
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

It's good to see that the actual condition of the vehicle rather than it's age would be a deciding factor. But if that is the case then a well maintained car shouldn't have an expiry date at all. Am I missing something here?

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Old 29th August 2015, 10:49   #3
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

Really not getting it.

The government is arguing against the NGT decision by saying that cars should be evaluated on their fitness, not on their age. Okay.

But an expiry date? is it a final date or is it dependent on fitness test that renews the expiry date?

Am all for pollution controls and fitness tests, but banning or phasing away old cars just on the number of years is not right. We are a fairly large country, not Singapore or Japan to have strict laws.
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Old 29th August 2015, 11:17   #4
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

I think the rationale would be that after a certain number of years, maintaining a car in a good condition becomes economically difficult - how many of us can source parts for a Fiat Uno diesel today? Not many. And some of those who cannot, may keep running the car in whatever condition it is. So there may be an age for each car beyond which it is not ordinarily possible to maintain it to the same levels as when it was brand new.

With so much clamor going on about the latest safety devices, how many cars over 15 years of age would actually meet today's requirements about safety belts or other equipment? There will have to be a date past which such old vehicles cannot ply on the roads every day. There needs also to be a process where owners who are interested to keep the old vehicles can get them classified as 'classic' or 'vintage' and these vehicles are allowed on the roads on special occasions.

So while 10 years may not sound like too much for some, an age of 20 years could definitely be looked at as the end of a vehicle's useful life.
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Old 29th August 2015, 11:42   #5
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

So once the decision is made there will not be VINTAGE vehicles!!.It is ridiculous to think that after ,say 20 years,a vehicle is less useful or safer.Instead the government can make stricter checking norms when fitness is given,or the fitness can be checked in every 3 years or 2 years instead of 5 years as of now.I think the owners (lovers) of these vehicles take better care than the recent ones.
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Old 29th August 2015, 12:12   #6
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

Even in developed countries like the US the average age of cars on the road is close to 10 Years, where as in India it is below 5. Even commercial vehicles like trucks and buses are older.
I'm not in favor of scrapping vehicles, but a fitness test first at 10 Yrs or 3 Lakh km whichever comes first, and there after every 5 years is fine.
An upgrade policy for trucks and buses is also needed. Now a days company overhauled engines are available for replacement when old ones need work on them.
The replaced engines should be confirming to the latest pollution norms, and asbestos free brake shoes, pads, clutch linings etc should be available for older models of trucks which rely on locally made spares. As of today, Cummins engine in trucks from the 1995 Make EuroI to 2015 EuroIV use the same block, crank and pistons. The cylinder head, fuel pump, ECU and sensors have changed.

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Old 29th August 2015, 12:25   #7
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Who will check if the old vehicles are roadworthy? Bombay high court had a few months back banned a few RTOs from issuing fitness certificates to vehicles because there is no staff and infrastructure to certify old vehicles. I think there was also a case where Pune RTO had issued too many fitness certificates in a day, which was an impossible feat even assuming each vehicle took 15-20 minutes.
Rather than investing time, money and staff into certification of old vehicles, which also gives rise to corruption, isn't it easier to just put an age bar and scrap the vehicle after a certain age?
There is a question of classic or vintage cars, but then these are hardly a couple of percentage points of the overall vehicle population.
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Old 29th August 2015, 12:42   #8
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Nice. Completely agree with the concept of expiration of automotives. Those wanting to retain expired cars should be asked to buy carbon credits or something equivalent domestically...which can be traded commodity aka FSI.
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Old 29th August 2015, 14:04   #9
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

All I see is corruption written everywhere on this. We have so many heavy vehicles which ply in bad condition. There are no checks and crackdowns on these & they are proposing the same now. Pay some extra bucks & get the fitness certificate & you are set.

All these boil down to the need of strict tracking of ownership & vehicles. Everything single detail of the vehicle should be available online for th officials & then things start falling in place.
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Old 29th August 2015, 14:34   #10
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

We have been pretty good at making laws for a while now, it is at the enforcement stage where the system comes crashing down miserably.

I was having a conversation with a friend about this topic who seemed hopeful because the enforcement agencies in the capital did manage to do a respectable job as far as tinted glasses and seat belt laws were concerned. I still remained skeptical for one main reason: earlier, there are no parties (read: bribe-happy businesses and individuals) with vested interests if cars weren't allowed to have dark windows or if people were made to wear seat-belts. This case is different; there are several businesses and people who will not want their vehicles to "expire", and hence will try to find ways to circumvent the law since such offenses are mostly ignored by the police.

It doesn't take much to realize that it would be a lot cheaper to bribe the officials at the inspection offices than to scrap the old cars and buying new ones.
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Old 29th August 2015, 22:08   #11
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

IMHO Putting an age on vehicles is a clear case of cartelization of car manufacturers hand in glove with the government.

Who will benefit the most by forcing private vehicles off the road after an expiry date?

1. Manufacturers as they will sell more new units.

2. Government agencies by raking in excise and other taxes on new cars sold

Who will suffer?

1. The common man. A perfectly well maintained non-polluting vehicle driven for 10 years with another 10 years in it will be scrapped. The owner will essentially need to shell out moolah to have his new commute vehicle.

2. The used car market. Just picture this. If a 10 year policy is executed and enforced:

A user buy a honda city dtech for 10 lakhs.

After five years sells it for 5 lakhs (approximate modest depreciation)

The second owner keeps the car for next five years.

At the end of its 10 year life as per law has to scrap it.

Both owners spent approximately the same amount of money to use the car for the same period of time. In fact the second owner will most definitely get a raw deal since he may spend much more on maintenance, part replacements, and with no warranties as enjoyed by the first owner in the first 3-5 years of ownership

This will mean certain death to used car markets. Especially for diesel cars.
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Old 30th August 2015, 09:55   #12
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

Having fitness tests only wil strengthen the cause for more corruption. Those who can take care of the authorities can continue to run their cars for 50 years or more irrespective of its road worthiness.
However those who cannot there is a chance that the cars are considered scrap just 3 years after purchase. Who knows there will be even a black market to purchase such unfit vehicles second hand for four digit figures and run without problems from the car or authorities for several years.

Last edited by hybridpetrol : 30th August 2015 at 09:57.
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Old 30th August 2015, 10:21   #13
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

How are they going to Decide on a expiry date?

My 20 Year old 124 drives way better and is safer(2 Airbags and ABS) than most vehicles on road today,
and probably pollutes a lot less than most vehicles on road. If they are going to revamp the system and have expiry dates for vehicles,
they better have it on the basis of a vehicles roadworthiness than age.
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Old 30th August 2015, 17:58   #14
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

NGT has objected to the government's proposal that fitness and not age be the sole criterion in phasing out old vehicles and raised questions over the existing system of issuing pollution under control (PUC) certificates.

Quoting Justice Swatanter Kumar, heading the bench for the hearing:

"What are you going to do about mechanism of checking emissions and PUC norms for the existing vehicles? There are reports which suggest that you need to change the PUC norms. Your departments don't have equipment to check all pollution norms. Moreover, you are testing vehicles only for two parameters - opacity of smoke and carbon dioxide emissions."

"How have they prepared report? You can't even measure the emissions of a running vehicle. Show us one report which takes into consideration all eight parameters for checking emissions. This is the seriousness of your report."
These observations were posted after Additional Solicitor General (ASG) Pinky Anand, on behalf of the Ministry of Road Transport & Highways, put forth the government's proposal of formulating a policy for determining the "end of life" of vehicles based on their fitness, and not their age.

The ASG put forward several reports, including four IIT-based reports, which specified that there are only 7 per cent vehicles over 10 years and their total impact on pollution is one per cent.

The ASG also told the bench that the Ministry also intends to replace Motor Vehicles Act, 1988 by a New Act and was in the process to finalise "The Road Transport and Safety Bill, 2015".

"Under the new bill the central government proposes to establish a National Authority to be known as the National Road Safety and Traffic Regulation Authority to exercise the powers conferred on, and to perform the functions assigned to, it under this Act," the note added.

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Old 30th August 2015, 18:42   #15
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Default Re: All vehicles to have an expiry date soon!

A PUC in Pune is a available even without testing the pollution levels. At times you dont even need to take your vehicle.

Until the implementation scene improves, I see these measures as yet another money minting opportunity for certain guys.
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