Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th October 2015, 17:08   #1036
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Few observations -
  • Pricing is very competitive indeed. It will obviously impact Jazz and I20 (lesser extent ) but it also makes the Swift and Dzire extremely overpriced.
  • Great move by Maruti to provide ABS and airbags in all variants
  • As I understand, the waiting period is already running into a couple of months and growing further. So, by the time most people get their car, there are very high chances of a significant price hike
  • Many people are quoting the BHp/Tonne or NM/Tonne and saying that the Baleno should perform very well. But, please bear in mind that the figures change considerably if we have 5 people + luggage in the car. There is no denying the fact that the diesel Baleno is lacking with respect to the competition in terms of power and driveability as the cars like Jazz and I20 provide more powerful diesel engine with 6 gears. The petrol is obviously good enough for the competition
  • I understand that Suzuki has built the car on a new platform. But still, 900 kgs for a car this size will put some doubts in the mind of the buyer. It is 150 kgs less than the competition which is huge. May be Suzuki has done some magic which Hyundai/Honda/VW has no clue about. I would be interested to see how this car fares in the crash tests and what's the weight of the export versions of this car.

Last edited by adimicra : 28th October 2015 at 17:09.
adimicra is online now   (5) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 18:02   #1037
Senior - BHPian
 
romeomidhun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,634
Thanked: 1,903 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
  • Many people are quoting the BHp/Tonne or NM/Tonne and saying that the Baleno should perform very well. But, please bear in mind that the figures change considerably if we have 5 people + luggage in the car.
But isn't it applicable to all cars?
romeomidhun is offline  
Old 28th October 2015, 18:02   #1038
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Few observations -
  • Many people are quoting the BHp/Tonne or NM/Tonne and saying that the Baleno should perform very well. But, please bear in mind that the figures change considerably if we have 5 people + luggage in the car. There is no denying the fact that the diesel Baleno is lacking with respect to the competition in terms of power and driveability as the cars like Jazz and I20 provide more powerful diesel engine with 6 gears. The petrol is obviously good enough for the competition
This is funny!

If the car weight is reduced then it is equivalent to carrying that much less weight, There is no denying that adding more load affects and it is the same point as reducing load affects performance too.

Also, crash worthiness is not measured by the weight of the car.
Especially what crash tests measure is how occupants are protected in the event of a crash and not how bad or good car stands after the crash. According to me weight alone cannot be relied upon to prove that a car is crash worthy or not. I think this point is moot and worth not discussing until there is a crash test conducted and results are shared. How I wish Maruti should have conducted this test on itself and shared the results.

Structural integrity and crash energy absorption and dispertion and good measure of airbags and seat belts and handling of the car all come in to play. Can a stronger helmet be the one which protects the head, absolutely not it is the one that safely absorbs the crash energy.

Many people have this same logic as heavier cars handle better, can those please raise your hands!! For example:- I wonder where the Yamaha R1 would be on race track with its light weight body compared to heavier Harleys and Bullets.

So, let us not spend more time on things that we don't have data on and speculate unnecessarily. Nothing wrong in speculating but this specific speculation creates fear in people's mind and that is something not the right thing to do given lack of data and engineering knowledge.
WRXXX is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 18:06   #1039
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 195
Thanked: 104 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Visited Kalyani NEXA on my way back from office. Went there with a lot of hope as I am looking for a car to replace my (original 2005) baleno. But I think I might have to look elsewhere.

Do not know where did all the space in the back has gone. Requested two more people to join me in the back to test the space and it was a real tight squeeze. I am of medium build and other two were not very healthy either. It will be very tough for long trips with three people at back.

Thanks MSIL, but no thanks. Planning to hang onto the words of one of the RM who said there might be another round of offers on s-cross by Diwali as the numbers of S-cross is surely going to go down with Baleno launch. Wishing for him to be right.

BTW, does any of you know what is this NEXA loyalty card which costs Rs 1140?

Last edited by girishv : 28th October 2015 at 18:17.
girishv is offline  
Old 28th October 2015, 18:27   #1040
BHPian
 
Aston Singh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 337
Thanked: 157 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I understand that Suzuki has built the car on a new platform. But still, 900 kgs for a car this size will put some doubts in the mind of the buyer. It is 150 kgs less than the competition which is huge. May be Suzuki has done some magic which Hyundai/Honda/VW has no clue about. I would be interested to see how this car fares in the crash tests and what's the weight of the export versions of this car.
Nothing personal here, but the Honda City base petrol weighs a mere 1029 kgs. (picked up from the Honda website itself)
Aston Singh is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 18:27   #1041
BHPian
 
sou_3749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 96
Thanked: 154 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Finally dropped by to check the Baleno. I am sorry, but my observation includes a comparison with the big brother(S-Cross) as both are touted as "Premium".

Good things first:
1. Space, space and space. Acres of space even close to s-cross.
2. Design outside is refreshing and looks as good as i20 or jazz. It has got it's own design characteristics unlike any other maruti.
3. Interior design is very well planned. Everything is in place. The center console layout looks good too.
4. Tyres are adequate and the alloys are ok too.
5. Car is full of gadgets and nobody will complain about the bells and whistles.

Now the bad things. This comes from a maruti loyalist and I genuinely expected maruti to maintain the quality at least as good as s-cross if not better.

1. I have serious doubts on the rigidity of the body. I can take the argument about the TECT frame, but what about the body panels, the doors, the hatch. I am sorry, but swift felt solid compared to Baleno. Why compromise the build quality to achieve a little edge in FE or I would say(cost cutting).

2. Plastic quality is pathetic. Even if s-cross is not a hit in market, but maruti has taken a step towards the right direction. Everything is hard plastic, my ritz plastic felt superior to baleno. This will not last for sure, forget comparing with i20 or jazz.

3. Rearward visibility is poor and the small orvm doesn't help either.

4. Placement of the rear camera is an eyesore. They could have placed it at a better location.

5. The GC is 170. But as soon as 4 people entered into the cabin, the vehicle came down dramatically.

6. Paint quality didn't feel good.

7. Boot space 339 ltrs is only good on paper, practically you can't put a large suitcase. Compare it with jazz and you will understand what I am talking about.

8. Though interior space is awesome, the cushioning is bad. The rear seat under thigh support is lacking even if there is more than enough knee room.
Head room is poor for a person taller than 5.10.

Can't comment about the ride, handling and engine.

My question to maruti, why did you take step backward in terms of quality. This doesn't deserve to stand beside s-cross. All of the sudden, the top variants feel like over priced for the quality they provide. It's no where near to premium, because it's not built to last. And mind it, it's priced pretty close to jazz and i20.

My brother has pre-booked the petrol alpha and was pretty excited about the pricing. After checking the car in flesh, we are reconsidering jazz. We can go round and round arguing, but believe me jazz is the properly engineered product.
sou_3749 is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 18:31   #1042
BHPian
 
itsashishsharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 684
Thanked: 571 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Many people are quoting the BHp/Tonne or NM/Tonne and saying that the Baleno should perform very well. But, please bear in mind that the figures change considerably if we have 5 people + luggage in the car
Adi, if you can shed 100kg off my Fiesta, I would be super happy given that it doesn't impact on car's structural integrity, or considering how an Ecosport TDCi being 130kg heavier performs vis-a-vis my Fiesta, lesser weight is good for sure. Yes, if we are talking about international version of Swift and City being much havier than their Indian cousins, it is bad as those are heavily compromised cars in favor of achieving better fuel economy and cost cutting.
I have a feeling that the Baleno would be a fine product and not like Swifts/Citys that start rattling in 2 months. It is tagged as a premium product and being sold through Nexa, if quality is compromised, it nay work out for MS, and they would know, I assume.
Also, lessee weight means lesser potential energy, lesser momentum, translating to lesser impact in a crash. The lighter the vehicle, the easier to make it move, turn or stop.
itsashishsharma is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 18:36   #1043
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXXX View Post
This is funny!

If the car weight is reduced then it is equivalent to carrying that much less weight, There is no denying that adding more load affects and it is the same point as reducing load affects performance too.

Also, crash worthiness is not measured by the weight of the car.
Especially what crash tests measure is how occupants are protected in the event of a crash and not how bad or good car stands after the crash. According to me weight alone cannot be relied upon to prove that a car is crash worthy or not. I think this point is moot and worth not discussing until there is a crash test conducted and results are shared. How I wish Maruti should have conducted this test on itself and shared the results.

Structural integrity and crash energy absorption and dispertion and good measure of airbags and seat belts and handling of the car all come in to play. Can a stronger helmet be the one which protects the head, absolutely not it is the one that safely absorbs the crash energy.

Many people have this same logic as heavier cars handle better, can those please raise your hands!! For example:- I wonder where the Yamaha R1 would be on race track with its light weight body compared to heavier Harleys and Bullets.

So, let us not spend more time on things that we don't have data on and speculate unnecessarily. Nothing wrong in speculating but this specific speculation creates fear in people's mind and that is something not the right thing to do given lack of data and engineering knowledge.
There was nothing funny intended though I have no problems that you found it funny. A lower powered light-weight car will show a bigger drop in performance than a higher powered heavier car when fully loaded (please do the maths and check).

All that you said about safety is true and known to most I guess.Anyways, still I have my doubts on the structural safety of the Baleno given it's low weight and given Maruti's legacy - how the Indian made Swift (Maruti's preium hatchback till a few days back) crumbled like a tin can in the recent crash tests (even airbags would not have saved it). I might be wrong or correct ..only time will tell ! I have never said Baleno is structurally unsafe but I have my doubts (due to the reasons mentioned above)till I am proven wrong. When we do not have any data on crash tests, how do you judge if the car is safe or not? So, all this is speculation and perception but unfortunately, sometimes you have to go with that. Are you saying people can't have doubts because you don't have?
The comparison between R1 and Harley was funny actually when here we are comparing baleno with it's direct competitors. One case is like apples and apples and another is apples with watermelon (not oranges)

Last edited by adimicra : 28th October 2015 at 18:46.
adimicra is online now   (3) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:04   #1044
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
All that you said about safety is true and known to most I guess.Anyways, still I have my doubts on the structural safety of the Baleno given it's low weight and given how the Indian made Swift (Maruti's preium hatchback till a few days back) crumbled like a tin can in the recent crash tests (even airbags would not have saved it). I might be wrong or correct ..only time will tell !
Nothing personal here, so I will stop commenting on Power to weight ratio aspect as I can't see your point.

About the crash and structural safety, which India made car according to you today meets international crash standards other than may be Polo and Fiesta in this category?
I agree made in India Swift might have failed to show structural integrity during crash tests and I am sure many made "for and in" India cars would be the same including the new Jazz, I have personally seen the quality of internationally sold Jazz and the Jazz sold here is totally built to cost, and Hyundai also has shown that made for and in India car(s) haven't really passed the crash test. So, unless there is a crash test enforcement it would be tough to gauge which is the best.

my question: Is there a test done on made "for and in" India cars that were released recently with Airbags as standard fitment in their lowest variants? And have achieved good safety ratings? May be for the benefit of public it would be very good to know so that they can choose them.
Quote:
The comparison between R1 and Harley was funny actually when here we are comparing baleno with it's direct competitors.
Come on.... I was talking about the handling prowess of an apple versus watermelons if that is what was being compared since people thought heavier objects meant better handling and crash safety. BTW I have driven both(R1 and Harley) for long distances if that helps clear some doubts.


BTW: Just visited Nexa showroom and I totally echo views of @sou_3749
but Jazz is obscenely priced compared to Baleno.

Some negatives of Baleno from my view.
Rear seat(bench width) and seat cushioning(firmness) and plastics need to improve overall.

And way too many people in the showroom and two deliveries of Ray blue Baleno already queued up.

Last edited by WRXXX : 28th October 2015 at 19:10.
WRXXX is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:16   #1045
Senior - BHPian
 
adimicra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,558
Thanked: 1,058 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXXX View Post
Nothing personal here, so I will stop commenting on Power to weight ratio aspect as I can't see your point.

About the crash and structural safety, which India made car according to you today meets international crash standards other than may be Polo and Fiesta in this category?

my question: Is there a test done on made "for and in" India cars that were released recently with Airbags as standard fitment in their lowest variants? And have achieved good safety ratings? May be for the benefit of public it would be very good to know so that they can choose them.

BTW: Just visited Nexa showroom and I totally echo views of @sou_3749
but Jazz is obscenely priced compared to Baleno.
Nothing personal here as well.
I don't know of any such tests. But the Polo did fare much better than the Swift in terms of the structural integrity.
In Latin NCAP tests, the City scored pretty good (contrary to public perception) along with Fiesta. The City sold in South American countries weigh almost the same as the one sold here. At least, the South American cars will be more closer to the ones sold in India than the ones from Europe and USA. Though not conclusive, it gives some data points to form an opinion.

http://www.latinncap.com/en/results/

Agree about the fact that Jazz is priced higher particularly when you compare the feature set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aston Singh View Post
Nothing personal here, but the Honda City base petrol weighs a mere 1029 kgs. (picked up from the Honda website itself)
No problems but I was comparing the baleno with I20 /Jazz/Polo. All of those cars weigh around 1050 kgs (with ABS and Airbags) which is a good 150 kgs more than the baleno.

The City weighs almost the same as the Jazz as the hatch door in the Jazz is pretty heavy to offer safety and protection to passengers which kind of compensates the weight of the City due to additional length.
adimicra is online now   (2) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:22   #1046
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,070
Thanked: 15,624 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Baleno gets 4600+ bookings !

Quote:
We have been receiving overwhelming bookings ahead of its national launch. On the day of the launch, over 1,500 visitors visited our showrooms and 600 of them booked while on the second day, 3,500 visited the showrooms and 1,200 booked. Total booking figures will be over 4,600
http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...aruti/49569553

Last edited by volkman10 : 28th October 2015 at 19:24.
volkman10 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:36   #1047
BHPian
 
MetalBuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mumbai, Florida
Posts: 457
Thanked: 254 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Just had another dekko of the car and I have come back a lot dejected! I understand that safety cant be measured by how heavy or light the body feels but, unfortunately it is abnormally light and undeniably confidence shattering. I think I need to go and check out another dealership so, that i get to experience a different Baleno. This would help me confirm my findings.

I've never owned a German car and come from a humble background but, even my 10year old Esteem feels more solid in comparison. And that too when it has a curb weight of just 750kgs!

I'm confused as hell now and royally confused. After checking out the Baleno, I headed out to the Hyundai showroom to check out the Xcent and that oozed quality with the way the doors closed and the likes.

Can any other bhpian confirm my findings or am I hallucinating?

Cheerio,
-Shivang Gandotra
MetalBuff is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:37   #1048
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 27
Thanked: 14 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by girishv View Post
Do not know where did all the space in the back has gone. Requested two more people to join me in the back to test the space and it was a real tight squeeze. I am of medium build and other two were not very healthy either. It will be very tough for long trips with three people at back.

Thanks MSIL, but no thanks. Planning to hang onto the words of one of the RM who said there might be another round of offers on s-cross by Diwali as the numbers of S-cross is surely going to go down with Baleno launch. Wishing for him to be right.

BTW, does any of you know what is this NEXA loyalty card which costs Rs 1140?
I too visited NEXA (Gurgaon) yesterday, though my purpose to go there was to ask the RM if MS is allowing the S-Cross Alpha lights on the lower variants.

Yes, the Baleno is very short on head-room at the rear. I am 6 feet and my head grazed the roof when I rested my back on the seat (I can only imagine a dent in the roof when the car manoeuvers over speed-breakers ). I had always complained about the Ciaz being short on head-room but Baleno is shorter on that front!
To get head-room at the front you have to adjust the seat height. By the time you reach the lowest position - giving the highest headroom - you lose sight of the car's bonnet and the road immediately ahead.
Rear visibility is very constricted.

The Baleno and the SCross were standing next to each other, so I went back and forth between the two cars to appreciate how larger the cabin is in the latter.
Hoping for more discounts on it by Diwali.

The NEXA loyalty card allows you to collect points on purchases made at MS (e.g. accessories) and then use those points during car services. I'm unaware of the conversion factor of points to cash and vice-versa (while making an accessory purchase).
multiloop is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:42   #1049
BHPian
 
WRXXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 253
Thanked: 290 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Phenomenal response I should say!
In fact I had to visit the Nexa showroom twice back to back two days and the crowd there was constant

Today happen to see a Merc in the parking lot and a visitor commented to his fellow saying Baleno has similar headlights as the Merc

Some photos of the Balenos that were setup for delivery and the buzz in the showroom.
Attached Thumbnails
Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs-img_20151028_165833482.jpg  

Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs-img_20151028_164532468.jpg  

WRXXX is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 28th October 2015, 19:47   #1050
BHPian
 
sou_3749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 96
Thanked: 154 Times
Default Re: Next-gen Suzuki Baleno (YRA) unveiled. EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 4.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXXX View Post
BTW: Just visited Nexa showroom and I totally echo views of @sou_3749
but Jazz is obscenely priced compared to Baleno.
Agreed. This is where I need help and views of members or rather people who already own jazz. 8 lakhs is not a small amount for a 1.2 petrol mill after all.

Agreed that jazz is overpriced but not hugely. The jazz V costs just shy of 8 lakhs where as Baleno alpha costs 8.2 lakhs in chennai. And I do believe jazz V is fairly loaded. As we say there is no replacement for displacement, we can also say quality comes with a price tag.

Sorry for going
I will probably stop this if it's not contributing to the topic.

But both Baleno and Jazz make strong case for worthiness.
sou_3749 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Next-generation Suzuki Vitara caught. EDIT: Now launched in Europe volkman10 The International Automotive Scene 118 26th October 2017 07:50
Next-generation Chevrolet Cruze Spied undisguised! EDIT: Now unveiled Tushar The International Automotive Scene 44 22nd July 2017 20:35
The next-gen 2015 Ford Figo. EDIT: Now launched RavenAvi The Indian Car Scene 719 9th November 2015 03:04
Next-generation Mahindra Bolero? NAMED: Mahindra TUV300! EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 6.90 lakhs Aditya The Indian Car Scene 1171 28th October 2015 11:35
Renault's Kwid entry level hatchback unveiled EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 2.57 lakhs! S2!!! The Indian Car Scene 781 13th October 2015 22:24


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:55.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks